4K alignment of HDDs. Is there any benefit?


TonyCzar

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There's so much interesting in Disk Management and so much more than the average user plays with. I've been reading about 4K alignment of disk partitions. There's an easy-to-measure performance benefit in SSDs that have been 4K aligned, So I was wondering if HDDs can even be 4K aligned at all. Answer: they can. New question: is there a measurable performance benefit. I'm in process of doing the experiment on a 1GB Toshiba external HDD, but the alignment is only 35% complete after eight hours. That got me wondering if someone has done this themselves and wondering what they found.
 
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Interesting.
 

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I'm in process of doing the experiment on a 1GB Toshiba external HDD, but the alignment is only 35% complete after eight hours.

After reading what you linked and following a few other links, I don’t know why it would take that long. I read nothing to suggest that it was a long process. Did you move all content and delete any partitions?

Again, this is interesting, thanks, I have clicked watch on the thread.
 

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After reading what you linked and following a few other links, I don’t know why it would take that long. I read nothing to suggest that it was a long process. Did you move all content and delete any partitions?

Again, this is interesting, thanks, I have clicked watch on the thread.
I can't comment intelligentlly on how long it should take, but zero content and no partitions. So far I'm just doing the empirical experiment. After I get the result I'll seek to understand it.
 

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Any Windows OS installed (Windows Vista and beyond) 4K aligns partitions preinstalling the OS.

As for a secondary or external (the external possibly the reason this is so slow) I honestly would of thought that a decent, modern up to date partition software would do this natively when creating a partition.
I am going to look into Minitools processes.
 

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    …still on a horse.

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Any Windows OS installed (Windows Vista and beyond) 4K aligns partitions preinstalling the OS.

As for a secondary or external (the external possibly the reason this is so slow) I honestly would of thought that a decent, modern up to date partition software would do this natively when creating a partition.
I am going to look into Minitools processes.
With old fashioned spinners (assuming a decent bus on the mobo) the only two factors that really matter above anything else are 1) fastest RPM possible -- 7200 OK-ish, 10,000 acceptable, 5400 "for the birds") and 2) the LARGEST cache size possible.

Anythjing else is just "literally spinning wheels). -- Also of course don't run too many concurrent applications wanting read / writes to these types of HDD's. Forget "alignment", defragging etc etc. As for defragging -- modern OS's these days do a lot of "prefetching" via a complex algorithm that takes a little while after installing the OS clean for the ist time to get a feel on what the user is likely to do and use spare CPU cycles to read data into memory so that when the actual data is required by the application it's already there and saves some I/O time -- which in any case is usually only done during "spare CPU cycles" e.g while waiting for a user response like a keyboard interrupt etc.

Of course this algorithm depends on what the user normally does -- and therefor can be highly varied.if the user works totally randomly - so the "prefetch"prediction by the OS's dispatcher or task manager will vary. That's why some people with identical hardware and a similar workload will get differing practical (i.e at the keyboard) performance even if the stats on those measuring things like cpu-z are identical.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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As for defragging

Thanks for your input, Jim.

I was reading, 4K alignment is actually better and reduces defragmentation.

I should say I read comment. Now I can’t find it.
 

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I haven’t yet found any documentation that states @MiniTool does this natively when creating a partition, but I’d honestly be surprised if it didn’t.
 
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    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
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    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
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    M.2 512GB
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    …still on a horse.
Thanks for your input, Jim.

I was reading, 4K alignment is actually better and reduces defragmentation.

I should say I read comment. Now I can’t find it.
I wouldn't bother about Minitool -- these companies usually want to sell some sort of a service, other products, or carry advertising / sponsorship for 3rd parties, even if the product at least for basic functionality is free for home / domestic based windows users.

Checking the science where possible is usually far better than a load of Sales Spiel from businesses.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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I wouldn't bother about Minitool

I disagree. Minitool is a fantastic product in my opinion, even without the paid version. I have never seen ads nor have I been hard pressed by Minoitool Partition Wizard to consider any sales pitch.



Want to check your disk alignment?

  • Press Windows + R key to open Run.
  • Type “msinfo32” and hit Enter.
  • Then go Components >Storage >Disks and look for your SSD/HDD and check the Partition Starting Offset. It needs to be divisible by 4096; otherwise, the SSD block is not alignment correctly.
I haven’t yet found any documentation that states @MiniTool does this natively when creating a partition, but I’d honestly be surprised if it didn’t.

The top alignment is my OS SSD
The bottom, a secondary HDD
The bottom partition, 16777 / 4096 is basically 4. (16,777,216 / 4096 = 4.09594726563 to be exact)

Win-1244.png
 
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    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
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    Silverstone 1500
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    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
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    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
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    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
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    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.

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    Logitech Classic Keybooard 200
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So Minitools Partition Wizard natively creates a partition using 1M (2048 sectors) 2K

MiniTool Partition Wizard will do a 1M align natively on partitions when creating them.
 

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    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
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    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
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    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
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    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
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    All sorts
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    Kaspersky Premium
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    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
I'm in process of doing the experiment on a 1GB Toshiba external HDD, but the alignment is only 35% complete after eight hours

You can align a partition using Minitools

External SSD, took all of 10 seconds.

Win-1248.png
Win-1246.png
 

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    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 Build: 26100.1742
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    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
@antspants, as per the thread title I've evaluating aligning a HDD.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 11 Pro 23H2 (OS Build 22631.4391)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    I have six computers. Five are HP and one is home built.
    Internet Speed
    800MB/sec up & down
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Malwarebytes

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 Build: 26100.1742
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
So just to be clear, Tony. You started with no files or partitions on the drive?
Correct. It's still running.

EDIT: I'm wrong. The HDD was not in low-level formatted state. It's file-free but partitioned as a simple volume and NTFS-formatted.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 11 Pro 23H2 (OS Build 22631.4391)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    I have six computers. Five are HP and one is home built.
    Internet Speed
    800MB/sec up & down
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Malwarebytes
Correct. It's still running.

I am really keen to test an external HDD with Minitools but it would involve removing an internal. I might have to dig around in my boxes for an old drive.

Keep us informed.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 Build: 26100.1742
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
Yes, on HDDs with 4K sector size it makes a difference in performance, albeit this difference is a lot smaller when compared to the difference that it makes on SSDs. Windows Vista and later versions of Windows perform an alignment at 1 MB boundaries (to be on the safe side in the long term) on all data storage devices larger than 4 GB.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
So I found a box of hard drives and two external double bay hubs. I mark all my drives and destroy any that have failed.
Unfortunately, the hubs are being seen as J: but they actual pre-date Moses and are failing to read any drive. I’ve tried 4.

I just ordered an external HDD enclosure which arrives tomorrow.
I know this is most likely going to amount to nothing much although I have read a difference between 20 to 50% read/write speed, but none the less, it’s always fun to learn new things.
More importantly, maybe, I want to know why it’s taking over 9 hours to align your drive.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 Build: 26100.1742
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.

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