Anyone else notice how cheap new prebuilt systems are?

exploder · Aug 1, 2021

I recently picked up a new Dell XPS desktop for half price because someone had removed the graphics card and NVME. Seemed like a good deal at the time but in reality it's a total piece of garbage! No VRM heatsink, junk processor heatsink and fan, cheap junk RAM in single channel, no airflow to speak of in the case, front of the case blocked off with junk and a tiny rear case fan that did nothing.

What a mess! The thing throttled doing a virus scan! I have fixed it to a point that it is usable. Bought a VRM heatsink, decent cpu heatsink and fan, replaced the RAM with 2 sticks of quality RAM, replaced the rear case fan with a larger Noctua fan and removed all the garbage blocking the front of the case. I still needs a 3D printed adapter to install a decent front case fan though.

I benchmarked it before and after the changes and it is massively improved but sometime down the road I will end up replacing the motherboard and put everything usable in an NZXT case I have with a decent power supply.

I brought home a fairly new HP desktop to fix for a co-worker and it is even worse! It's like picking up an empty box! Same problems as the XPS but an even tinier cpu cooler! No wonder the thing doesn't work! I have to have the user bring in the power cord before I can work on it because it is proprietary! All the major brands seem to using as much proprietary crap as they can!

My original idea was just to pick up something cheap that would support Windows 11 when it is released as final. My Precision workstations are older but built way better than the newer systems they sell. I will continue running Windows 10 on them until EOL. The XPS is usable now but I am not crazy about the cheap motherboard, it still uses some older caps! The platinum rated proprietary power supply bugs me too. It may or may not hold up and it sure looks cheap in my opinion.

I am in the process of moving. The back of the apartment building I was living in started to collapse! Most of my cash will go towards the move to the new building. Can someone recommend a decent motherboard for an 11th gen Intel processor? I have everything else to rebuild this piece of junk luckily but I want a recommendation from real user's here!

My recommendation from experience is do not waste your money on a new prebuilt Dell or HP, you would be throwing your money away!

jimbo45 · Aug 5, 2021

exploder said:
I recently picked up a new Dell XPS desktop for half price because someone had removed the graphics card and NVME. Seemed like a good deal at the time but in reality it's a total piece of garbage! No VRM heatsink, junk processor heatsink and fan, cheap junk RAM in single channel, no airflow to speak of in the case, front of the case blocked off with junk and a tiny rear case fan that did nothing.

What a mess! The thing throttled doing a virus scan! I have fixed it to a point that it is usable. Bought a VRM heatsink, decent cpu heatsink and fan, replaced the RAM with 2 sticks of quality RAM, replaced the rear case fan with a larger Noctua fan and removed all the garbage blocking the front of the case. I still needs a 3D printed adapter to install a decent front case fan though.

I benchmarked it before and after the changes and it is massively improved but sometime down the road I will end up replacing the motherboard and put everything usable in an NZXT case I have with a decent power supply.

I brought home a fairly new HP desktop to fix for a co-worker and it is even worse! It's like picking up an empty box! Same problems as the XPS but an even tinier cpu cooler! No wonder the thing doesn't work! I have to have the user bring in the power cord before I can work on it because it is proprietary! All the major brands seem to using as much proprietary crap as they can!

My original idea was just to pick up something cheap that would support Windows 11 when it is released as final. My Precision workstations are older but built way better than the newer systems they sell. I will continue running Windows 10 on them until EOL. The XPS is usable now but I am not crazy about the cheap motherboard, it still uses some older caps! The platinum rated proprietary power supply bugs me too. It may or may not hold up and it sure looks cheap in my opinion.

I am in the process of moving. The back of the apartment building I was living in started to collapse! Most of my cash will go towards the move to the new building. Can someone recommend a decent motherboard for an 11th gen Intel processor? I have everything else to rebuild this piece of junk luckily but I want a recommendation from real user's here!

My recommendation from experience is do not waste your money on a new prebuilt Dell or HP, you would be throwing your money away!

Hi there

@exploder

If you want to build your own computing system a good way is to go for a Server - even the small microservers and populate it yourself. Components are usually way better than on consumer products and the machines are built with better diagnostics and for 24/7 operations. The server market is often overlooked by home constructors -- and especiallly the USED market --Used servers can be an absolute bargain to buy. In fact if you have some "friends in Low places" you might even be able to grab some hardware from an office for zero EUR !!! as it upgrades its servers or moves to the cloud. !!

Usually the only disadvantage is that they don't come with an OS so you'll need either Linux or a Retail Windows version for the OS. There's invariably 2 LAN ports as well, a load of USB connectors and space for at least 4 or 5 HDD / SSD drives plus SAS controller(s) if you want mega fast I/O performance - and all for less than wallet busting prices. !!!!. The used ones will usually have a CPU (or more than 1 depending on what you buy) and a minimum of 16GB RAM - so you will only need to populate HDD's, more Ram, and possibly an extra video card.

BTW Stand alone servers here I'm discussing not Rack mounted or Blade type - those are very specialized and can't really be used in a consumer / domestic situation.

Cheers
jimbo

barman58 · Aug 5, 2021

I use prebuilt systems and have no real issues, I do however fully specify what goes into the system, and use a specialist builder which makes a difference and mine are not cheap either am currently just using two PCs A desktop specified for my needs, Rysen 5950 64GB, etc including a Matt Black Workstation Case with no glass panels so I could admire the Gubbins inside], and a Dell XPS laptop - [mine is an XPS17 9700, 32GB Ram 2TB SSD Alloy/Carbon Fibre construction ETC ...]

As with everything in life it does seem you get what you pay for - these two devices cost me north of £5K

but there are bargains available but you have to search out the good ones -- I actually got a discount on the XPS17 as most of it was specified and built for someone else and never shipped

exploder · Aug 7, 2021

I appreciate the responses! I do agree that some prebuilt systems are perfectly fine. I really should have researched the XPS I bought before buying it... Most reputable review sites rated this system pretty poor and it certainly lives up to these reviews unfortunately.

I tested the system stock and it benchmarked pretty poorly. After upgrading many of it's components it is greatly improved! Today I did find a front 120mm case fan adapter from a seller on eBay for $12.00 shipped. I will order a Noctua fan for it soon. Money is tight right now because of my housing situation.

I do have what I consider server type systems, 2 Precision T5600's, 1 T 3600 and a T3610. These are all decent systems but will have to remain on Windows 10 or Linux. The XPS was supposed to be an inexpensive but capable system to run Windows 11. The inexpensive idea obviously went by the wayside considering what it cost to fix the horrible stock cooling...

The HP I brought home to repair was even worse! The user's system was DOA and I had to tell her that is was not worth the cost to fix it. It appeared to have failed because of a horrendous cooling solution. I have never seen anything so cheaply made in all my life!

My whole point here is that the average consumer trusts these companies to sell them a product of decent quality. Instead they are getting the cheapest components with very poor designs. They use a lot of proprietary components that restrict the user's ability to repair them as well. In the case of the XPS I picked up it can be fixed to a point thanks to the Dell communities hard work. I can only hope the same can be said for HP systems.

I am not trying to bash these manufacturer's but they are destroying their reputations manufacturing systems of such poor quality.

barman58 · Aug 7, 2021

The vast majority of home users are not knowledgeable as far as IT equipment is concerned - they purchase based on price and these days aesthetics, especially with regards to laptops. which have to look nice in the coffee shop the ... fashion accessory laptop :wink:

seriously the consumer market is mainly family orientated the desktop or laptop purchased by parents for their kits to use for school or older kids college.

There are younger gamers who get basic gaming machines again bought by parents and often sold on looks more than substance.

I would class anyone being here as being an enthusiast at least, and the level goes up to the full professional level either current or former, we mostly come from an era where a Computer was a niche item rather than a everyday tool

The market today has to cater for the majority, and let's be honest here - we are not the majority so the market caters for other user levels who do not demand the level of system we do. so we have a few choices ...

buy the parts and build our own,
specify a system and pay a specialist to build it,
purchase a standard system and upgrade it ourselves,
and finally the basis for all systems buy what we can afford, either new or used

[ myself have found myself using each of these methods]

I have not mentioned business or enterprise systems as these are chosen on the basis of the power to perform the tasks they need to for the lowest possible cost, and the quantities involved can lower costs per unit considerably

cereberus · Aug 7, 2021

Well, devices may be cheap in US but not in the rest of the world!

BunnyJ · Aug 7, 2021

Well.. I started off with pre-built systems and after a while I decided to upgrade that PC and I didn't have any issues. Then I opted to build my own.. and I found lots of good tutorials on YouTube and it wasn't hard. I had some previous experience building PC's so.. It was easy for me.

I also found a shop that will spec out a PC and build it for around 80 plus tax. Not a bad deal and the guy is cool to work with. IMO,., nothing wrong with pre-built systems.

geeklife · Aug 11, 2021

I've been known as the budget builder around the web. Stuck with Optiplex's & Thinkstations for years. With the miners just taking the GPU and tossing great prebuilds on ebay for cheap I have been going that route. Setup a co workers son with a XPS with an i5 10400 and a GTX 1050 4GB I had in my pile for under $500. Yeah the cooling and thermals are not great. I ordered a XPS desktop for a work desktop and explicitly told the Dell rep I wanted the 11700K since it comes with a tower cooler and not the stock intel one. Well my rep sent me a 11700 model instead. Pushing for a tower cooler to be sent. We will see.

kipper · Aug 15, 2021

Having built my own systems for the past 15+ years I decided to buy an AIO desktop due to space limitations (my wife stole my office) and so far I am quite satisfied with this setup. Now, I just have to subdue my urges to build another full-size desktop.

bobkn · Aug 19, 2021

My first PC, in 1995, was a Dell Dimension XPS. (133 MHz Pentium. High-end stuff.

) I'd had Macs before that, so I was accustomed to overpriced, but high-quality, stuff.

I handed the Dell down to my nephew. Its PSU self-destructed. (Wouldn't have surprised me if it was due to dust/hair accumulation. Neat, he was not.) The only salvageable parts were the PCI (not E) graphics card and the RAM.

All of my subsequent desktops have been home assembled.

Appliance PCs can good values, IMHO, as long as you don't overclock, and can deal with the limited upgrade options.

They are cheaply built, and low in price. Maybe they are intended to only last for 3 years, which is the common Dell corporate lease duration.

I have no connection with Dell. My sister worked for them for a few years, but that was many years ago. She made it clear that their business practices were anything but admirable. I wasn't surprised when they got in trouble for manipulating funds to smooth out their quarterly reporting (while they were still public).

BunnyJ · Aug 20, 2021

When I was working at the Travelers Ins(Hartford CT) we were using the first batch of IBM PC(s) when the came out. They were mainly used as dumb terminals but soon they installed software.. Lotus 1-2-3 etc. I got a Gateway 2000 when the Pentium processor came out and that was used mainly to dial into the data center to get work done or fix hangs. God,. I hate hangs..

When Python become readily available I started to learn that,, I love that language

Atomic77 · Aug 20, 2021

In my humble opinion Pre Builds also known as Store Bought are awesome sauce. Every computer I have ever had been prebuilt and Dell and HP are 2 of the best brands.

WryCuda · Aug 22, 2021

exploder said:
I recently picked up a new Dell XPS desktop for half price because someone had removed the graphics card and NVME. Seemed like a good deal at the time but in reality it's a total piece of garbage! No VRM heatsink, junk processor heatsink and fan, cheap junk RAM in single channel, no airflow to speak of in the case, front of the case blocked off with junk and a tiny rear case fan that did nothing.

What a mess! The thing throttled doing a virus scan! I have fixed it to a point that it is usable. Bought a VRM heatsink, decent cpu heatsink and fan, replaced the RAM with 2 sticks of quality RAM, replaced the rear case fan with a larger Noctua fan and removed all the garbage blocking the front of the case. I still needs a 3D printed adapter to install a decent front case fan though.

I benchmarked it before and after the changes and it is massively improved but sometime down the road I will end up replacing the motherboard and put everything usable in an NZXT case I have with a decent power supply.

I brought home a fairly new HP desktop to fix for a co-worker and it is even worse! It's like picking up an empty box! Same problems as the XPS but an even tinier cpu cooler! No wonder the thing doesn't work! I have to have the user bring in the power cord before I can work on it because it is proprietary! All the major brands seem to using as much proprietary crap as they can!

My original idea was just to pick up something cheap that would support Windows 11 when it is released as final. My Precision workstations are older but built way better than the newer systems they sell. I will continue running Windows 10 on them until EOL. The XPS is usable now but I am not crazy about the cheap motherboard, it still uses some older caps! The platinum rated proprietary power supply bugs me too. It may or may not hold up and it sure looks cheap in my opinion.

I am in the process of moving. The back of the apartment building I was living in started to collapse! Most of my cash will go towards the move to the new building. Can someone recommend a decent motherboard for an 11th gen Intel processor? I have everything else to rebuild this piece of junk luckily but I want a recommendation from real user's here!

My recommendation from experience is do not waste your money on a new prebuilt Dell or HP, you would be throwing your money away!

You seem to be simply quoting a couple of reviews.

I've been perfectly happy with my Dell XPS 8940, and it's been running trouble-free for a year now. Impressed enough to more recently get a Dell G5 5000, but in this case, I upgraded from 8G RAM to 32G dual channel, and replaced the HDD with a SSD. Passes all tests with flying colours and the 1650-S drives my ASUS screen at 144Hz.

Oh yes, my "other" Dell is a Ryzen 7 laptop (16G RAM, 512G SSD). Absolutely faultless.

I am very experienced with building PCs, but have recently chosen to buy OEM, but only when they're on discount.

badrobot · Aug 26, 2021

And yet you still picked one up.

glasskuter · Nov 12, 2021

I'm right there with you. Over the years I used different Optiplexes, probably 5 or 6 of them, all of them purchased as used. They were built strong, easily re-configured, and workhorses for everything I threw at them. When I discovered my Optiplex 9020 with a 7th generation i7 wouldn't qualify for Windows 11, I thought I deserved at least one new PC in my lifetime so I purchased an i9 Optiplex 7080 4 months ago from Dell. Since I don't game or overclock I stupidly bought it with the 10900 cpu. Everything in it is flimsy and poorly designed. I can't tell you the misery I've gone through since. It ran way too hot because of inadequate cooling and I got nowhere with Dell despite hours and hours of arguing. Like you, I've rebuilt it on my own dime, adding a different cooler and fans. and bigger power supply. After a lot of research, I found hundreds of XPS users with the same problem and that Dell had known about the problem for over a year but was still selling these systems to unsuspecting buyers. (the XPS and Optiplex are same case design and mostly same components) Except for living with my weird husband, it has been the most frustrating experience of my life. Like XPS, Optiplexes are supposed to be in the upper tier in quality. NOT!!! They darn sure don't build them like they used to.

WXC · Nov 12, 2021

glasskuter said:
I'm right there with you. Over the years I used different Optiplexes, probably 5 or 6 of them, all of them purchased as used. They were built strong, easily re-configured, and workhorses for everything I threw at them. When I discovered my Optiplex 9020 with a 7th generation i7 wouldn't qualify for Windows 11, I thought I deserved at least one new PC in my lifetime so I purchased an i9 Optiplex 7080 4 months ago from Dell. Since I don't game or overclock I stupidly bought it with the 10900 cpu. Everything in it is flimsy and poorly designed. I can't tell you the misery I've gone through since. It ran way too hot because of inadequate cooling and I got nowhere with Dell despite hours and hours of arguing. Like you, I've rebuilt it on my own dime, adding a different cooler and fans. and bigger power supply. After a lot of research, I found hundreds of XPS users with the same problem and that Dell had known about the problem for over a year but was still selling these systems to unsuspecting buyers. (the XPS and Optiplex are same case design and mostly same components) Except for living with my weird husband, it has been the most frustrating experience of my life. Like XPS, Optiplexes are supposed to be in the upper tier in quality. NOT!!! They darn sure don't build them like they used to.

Atomic77 · Nov 13, 2021

Excuse me I have used prebuilt systems my whole life. My HP Laptop now 1 year old was $600.00 and my new Dell AIO was over 1000. So Prebuilts are not cheap. Both my current computers were bought from Costco. one of my computers has a 11th Generation Intel Core i7 in it.

badrobot · Nov 13, 2021

I think "cheap" is not the right word. Maybe we are looking for the word "over priced" for the kind of performance you can get out of it.

Atomic77 · Nov 13, 2021

@badrobot you may have something there. Im not going to agree or disagree quite yet.

badrobot · Nov 13, 2021

If only I could build a laptop, I would have done so. :lmao:

I needed something very portable and not very expensive so I got an ASUS Zenbook 14", 10th i5 (for $1200) last year. Let's just say that I am not too happy with it except for the fancy touchpad that also serves as a second screen.

It is running Windows 11 fine, but I am quite not too happy with it. I feel it is a rip off.