Competition surely is meant to LOWER prices not increase them (Ms Teams in Europe)

Hi folks
It looks like the EU is sticking it's OAR into Ms again. Seems from Oct 1 users in Europe (and for this purpose that includes the UK too) that Ms cannot integrate Teams into its office suite and so will have to charge users even on the office/365 package an extra thing around 7 USD a month or so if they want teams (but can have office/365 without it). For once Ms isn't the villain of the piece here. The EU surely has better things to do than get involved in this sort of nonsense where 1000's of people either have to pay more or get inconvenienced by having to look for a suitable alternative function - atnd he integration of Teams into Office is surely what makes it worth while in a business environment where people use their own computers.

The excuse was "restraining competition". - As I've always been led to believe the essentially capitalist and free market economy usually encourages LOWER prices. Seems like the EU commission has managed to repeal one of the fundamental principles of economics and cause consumers to pay MORE for allowing competition.

Seems a lot of people studying economics at university will have to have their degrees / theses rescinded !!!

cheers
jimbo

But on the other end of the scale, $7 a month is nothing, not even noticable to a business that saves hundreds of dollars a month (potentially thousands) on travel for meetings and client interaction. Not to exclude the possible hundreds of thousands a company may make from the actual interactions through using Teams.

antspants said:

But on the other end of the scale, $7 a month is nothing, not even noticable to a business that saves hundreds of dollars a month (potentially thousands) on travel for meetings and client interaction. Not to exclude the possible hundreds of thousands a company may make from the actual interactions through using Teams.

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It's not the business or enterprise versions --- it's for the original selling point of office/365 for individuals which included a decent version of teams other than that new 100% useless and rubbish free app.

An extra 84 USD a year (7 X 12) (don't forget in Europe you have to ADD on the VAT or whatever they call that wretched tax these days which can be another whopping 22% on top of the bill taking the total to over 100 USD for something that was fomerly free isn't that insignificant especially if the company making / releasing the product (Ms) didn't want to do this in the first place but was the whim of just a bunch of probably hugely overpaid politicians and civil servants.

I'm not sure who was complaining about this thing in the first place -- probably just another bunch of overpaid lawyers billing at 500 bucks (US) an hr !!.

Cheers
jimbo

Original selling point? Take my wife and her family for instance. The monthly cost for them to communicate via landline exceeds this amount (Canada to Australia) With teams, if they chose to use it (why would a home user use teams?) would be a lower cost to them, and they’d be able to see each other. Apart from the fact that Teams is free for home users available on mobile and desktop . Are you saying that this is changing? Wouldn’t MS just make it available for home users for free as a separate package download. There was no reference link.
And students now get teams in their free Office/365 education pack.

Could you link me to the article, please. So I can better understand.

lol, how else will anybody use Teams, if it's not bundled with Office365? It's garbage for communication compared to the competition. But it integrates well both ways with the rest of Office Apps.

antspants said:

Could you link me to the article, please. So I can better understand.

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SlicEnDicE said:

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

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Thanks

Also Slack (the one reporting MS) is a chat tool, while Teams is not that, even if it has a chat feature. The two are very different. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

That might not be the article Jimbo is referring to because all that really says is that Microsoft is being kicked in the ass for forcing Teams onto consumers in their Office/365 package. I see this as a good thing.

Here is one from 2 days ago.

Microsoft 365 or Office 365 subscription without Teams included, and will be charged at €2 per month less than before. Separately, Microsoft will offer Teams as a standalone product costing €5 per month, but only to new customers.

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Existing customers on an enterprise subscription can remain on their current plan — replete with Teams — if they wish. Or they can choose to downgrade to the cheaper plan without Teams. For customers on one of its small business or frontline worker plans, Microsoft said it will continue to bundle Teams with its broader software suite, but will also offer them a plan that comes without Teams for a lower price (this price varies depending on the precise product and country where it’s offered). These customers won’t be able to subscribe to a separate, standalone Teams plan.

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I don’t see anything negative about this. Home users can apparently still use Teams for free, but again, why would they? Students still get it for free.

SlicEnDicE said:

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

Click to expand...

Initial complaint :

And here you are :


I'm usually in favour of the EU but they seem to have gone over the top this time.

cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

Initial complaint :

EU launches antitrust investigation into Microsoft over Teams app

The European Commission will verify whether including Teams in Microsoft's Office 365 and Microsoft 365 packages gave the app an unfair advantage over its competitors.

www.euronews.com

And here you are :

New subscription structure for Microsoft 365 in Europe

Learn about changes coming to Microsoft 365, Office 365, and Microsoft Teams in the EEA and Switzerland on October 1, 2023.

www.microsoft.com

I'm usually in favour of the EU but they seem to have gone over the top this time.

cheers
jimbo

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Thanks, Jimbo.
Still, I don’t see the problem, maybe I am ignorant to what you’re communicating? (If so, I apologise) If a business can’t afford 100 Euro a year, they shouldn’t be in business. Enterprise users (300 people or more) wont even blink at it. Home users will now get MS 365 cheaper and can download the free Teams app for their devices separately and collaborate/communicate

antspants said:

Thanks, Jimbo.
Still, I don’t see the problem, maybe I am ignorant to what you’re communicating? (If so, I apologise) If a business can’t afford 100 Euro a year, they shouldn’t be in business. Enterprise users (300 people or more) wont even blink at it. Home users will now get MS 365 cheaper and can download the free Teams app for their devices separately and collaborate/communicate

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It's not businesses. It's private individuals who got office/365 with teams included their subscription -- now they suddenly have to stump up around $ 100 extra a year due to circumstances totally outside Ms's control.

(For Europe / EU / EEA) the UK is also included in this for the issue here -- although in theory Ms could make the GB-ENG edition equivalent to the US edition where I think the charges / issues on private individual office/365 subscriptions aren't effected.

I agree if a business is worried about 100 USD a year then perhaps it shouldn't be in business !!! but its the INDIVDUAL private users who bear the brunt of this.

As for that free app --it's 100% useless and hideous --you can't even set up the function "test microphone and video" which was available on the old version.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

As for that free app --it's 100% useless and hideous --you can't even set up the function "test microphone and video" which was available on the old version.

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I wasn’t aware that it was that bad. Thanks for filling me in, Jimbo.

In the end it's not even about the money for the consumer. Teams is part of Office...why remove it? You can just uninstall Teams and use Slack instead if you want it, or use both, plus some other communication apps.

SlicEnDicE said:

In the end it's not even about the money for the consumer. Teams is part of Office...why remove it? You can just uninstall Teams and use Slack instead if you want it, or use both, plus some other communication apps.

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Hi there.

@SlicEnDicE

I agree -- there's always alternative apps --but the whole point is that an "entity" (the EU commission - composed largely of "apparatchniks" and jobsworth type civil servants all of whom who have nothing to do whatsoever with Ms) are forcing Ms to unbundle a service for which many people have already signed up for -- and actually the cost itself now is comparable to the entire OFFICE/365 subscription !!!!.

I'm not anti EU -- If I'd had a vote in the UK on their Brexit referendum I would have voted against Brexit - but this sort of nonsense doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The issue is not that teams isn't "Un-installable" or is a bad application --it isn't actually - at least the sensible version is OK - but that the EU in it's infinite wisdom and paying a whole slew of lawyers around $ US 500 per hr EU consumers who paid for OFFICE/365 had teams INCLUDED. Now Ms has to "Unbundle it" -- and although you can get it the model has changed --now from Oct 1 in Europe ms Office/365 without teams can be had BUT : --if you want teams it's now going to cost you an extra $ US 100 a year or so -- and doubly annoying as this wasn't the direction of Ms who were quite happy to leave the "status quo" as is.

I think people have mis-understood my point here -- you sign up to a subscription service and then the whole kybosh changes --NOT DUE to the supplier of the service but some "3rd party agency -- the EU commission --plus their agents " all of whom have nothing to do with the provision of the service.

Cheers
jimbo

No I didn't misunderstand. With this rate, soon all Office apps will be separated and you have to pay separately for each one. All because EU said so...

Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, OneDrive and Teams at least are an important bundle for schools. Now those have to pay extra for no apparent reason.