CrystalDisk Info - Optane drive shows 96% after about 9 months.


cereberus

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As title says, crystaldiskinfo shows 96% for my optane drive, its health, which seems to be low but I do write a lot to drive.

So what does that mean - is this meaning 4% of disk's cells are kaput?

Or does it mean say each cell can be written on average 100 times (say), so now, the cells can only be written 96 times?

Does it mean something completely different?

At what point should I be considering a replacement?

By contrast, my wd 1tb nvme secondary drive is still at 100%.

On this basis, I am inclined to swap out optane for nvme (no optane drive) at some point.
 

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The-Hive

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Optane can be quite unreliable for monitoring, I read somewhere that you don't need to worry until it gets below 50% also find another program to double check it with. My other computer is on 89% it is 3 years old and the % has slowly dropped over time. I did once have a new pc and that disc failed after about 3 weeks, and I was given a warning at boot that catastrophic failure was immanent. I would be inclined to monitor it and keep an image ready to clone if need be.

Do you have a screen shot to show your total reads, writes and hours on
 

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cereberus

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Optane can be quite unreliable for monitoring, I read somewhere that you don't need to worry until it gets below 50% also find another program to double check it with. My other computer is on 89% it is 3 years old and the % has slowly dropped over time. I did once have a new pc and that disc failed after about 3 weeks, and I was given a warning at boot that catastrophic failure was immanent. I would be inclined to monitor it and keep an image ready to clone if need be.
I am not really that worried - I always have full Reflect backups in two other places.

89% after 3 years is more or less in line with my figures (slightly less but I do thrash the drives).

I was more trying to figure out what the figures mean - you read the web, and you get a lot of opinions but no real substance.
 

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The-Hive

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I know what you mean @cereberus
here is my Alienware ones, it is a couple of years old and gets a lot of use, this is the C drive
Screenshot 2022-04-10 205708.jpg
 

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cereberus

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There just seems to be no obvious logic to figures.

I am guessing % is probably just the actual writes / theoretical writes.
But if that was true, secondary drive should probably be say 99% or so?

I guess the point is they will stil outlive me though LOL.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Primary drive

This is the optane - i used to write all my vhds here hence high count, but I decided to get a second drive.

Those power on figures are complete nonsense.

1649621182175.png



Secondary Drive

This is my secondary drive - it is the large vhds that thrash the drive 17TB in about 6 months LOL.


1649621030757.png
 

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hsehestedt

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I had a whole writeup written but had to scrap it after I noticed your screenshot. That drive is a QLC SSD with an Optane cache. So the 96% life left is of the QLC cells, not the small Optane cache. Optane on its own has a far higher endurance rating than SLC / MLC / TLC / QLC SSD cells.

I didn't look up the full specs on your drive but by my math it probably has an endurance rating of about 600 TBW.
 

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jimbo45

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I think the "Old School engineering " system of "MTBF" or Mean time before failure would be a lot more use than weird "%" failure rates

Cheers

jimbo
 

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hsehestedt

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I did a little more research just out of curiosity. I have not yet found the endurance rating spec for your drive, but for the Intel Optane 905P Series, only a 480 GB SSD the endurance rating is 8.76 PBW. If we calculate the fact that the cache in your drive is one fifteenth that size, assuming the same number of write cycles that gives us a TBW of about 584 (roughly). So that pretty much matches my calculation that your SSD likely has an endurance rating of around 600 TBW.
 

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jimbo45

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I did a little more research just out of curiosity. I have not yet found the endurance rating spec for your drive, but for the Intel Optane 905P Series, only a 480 GB SSD the endurance rating is 8.76 PBW. If we calculate the fact that the cache in your drive is one fifteenth that size, assuming the same number of write cycles that gives us a TBW of about 584 (roughly). So that pretty much matches my calculation that your SSD likely has an endurance rating of around 600 TBW.
Hi there

In plain English what does that actually mean -- I,E how long is that drive safe to use before it is of no longer value. That's why the old "MBTF" ratings were much better -- at least users had an idea of how long a piece of kit would be serviceable until it needed replacement.

All these new "modern" measurements are just pure Bovine Scatology obfuscating the real reliability of the equipment in question.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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hsehestedt

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I think the "Old School engineering " system of "MTBF" or Mean time before failure would be a lot more use than weird "%" failure rates

Cheers

jimbo
SSDs do still have MTBF ratings but in the real world they are practically useless because the real world factor that most greatly impacts the endurance of an SSD (by a HUGE margin over anything and everything else) is the number of write cycles.
 

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hsehestedt

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Hi there

In plain English what does that actually mean -- I,E how long is that drive safe to use before it is of no longer value. That's why the old "MBTF" ratings were much better -- at least users had an idea of how long a piece of kit would be serviceable until it needed replacement.

All these new "modern" measurements are just pure Bovine Scatology obfuscating the real reliability of the equipment in question.

Cheers
jimbo
It's extremely simple - assume a drive has an endurance rating of 100 TBW. BTW, that's an artificially low number, I'm simply using it as an example. If you have written 5TB of data to that drive then you have used 5% of it's expected life. It's literally that simple.

EDIT: The endurance ratings tend to be very conservative. You should easily be able to run the drive until it reaches 0%. An SSD will automatically lock itself into read only mode when it detects too many errors preventing you from using it beyond the point where there are no longer any reassignable blocks left.
 

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SSDs do still have MTBF ratings but in the real world they are practically useless because the real world factor that most greatly impacts the endurance of an SSD (by a HUGE margin over anything and everything else) is the number of write cycles.


So what does that mean to a typical user who wants to know "How long will this wretched bit of kit last in my computer".

How many users on these boards have ever had an SSD fail - especially the later models, When the technology first came out years ago there may have been problems with read/write cycles etc - but those days are long gone. Most SSD's have a longer life cycle than classical "Spinners" now even when using a rapid duty cycle of switch on and off,

I'm still using a laptop with an old SSD fitted -- laptop 7 years old -- and the SSD which I regularly wipe, reformat and re-load various OS'es on it has never failed yet - and it must have had zillions of writes on it,

Cheers
jimbo
 

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hsehestedt

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Follow up: The very first SSD I looked up has an MTBF of 1.8 million hours that works out to over 205 years of time powered on. That's a lot longer MTBF than any human has :-). That's why MTBF on a SSD is useless. The TBW rating is far more informative.
 

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hsehestedt

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So what does that mean to a typical user who wants to know "How long will this wretched bit of kit last in my computer".
There is no 100% certain way to say how long it will last. I once purchased a new car where a rocker arm was not properly bolted down at the factory causing the engine to self destruct at under 1,000 miles. There are always outliers. But SSDs keep track of how much data has been written to them as the screenshots at the start of this thread attest so it's easy to monitor your warranted life expectancy.

Personally, I would probably replace the drive once you got down to near zero. But, naturally, I ALWAYS have backups to avoid those outlier conditions :-)
 

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    RAM Upgraded from 16GB to 32GB WiFi Upgraded from WiFi 5 to WiFi 6 SSD upgraded from 512GB NVMe SSD to 1TB Seagate FireCuda 510 NVMe SSD

Bree

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As title says, crystaldiskinfo shows 96% for my optane drive, its health, which seems to be low but I do write a lot to drive.
My Samsung 860 EVO SSD gets a lot of use too, its in a machine I use for VMs and I've written over 16TB to it in the past three years. If I keep up that rate it's going to take another 40+ years before I reach the manufacturer's specified 300TBW endurance. It will probably outlive me, let alone the PC it's installed in.

It really takes a lot to kill an SSD these days.


1649626310964.png
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB HDD
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    i5 M 520
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

jimbo45

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Follow up: The very first SSD I looked up has an MTBF of 1.8 million hours that works out to over 205 years of time powered on. That's a lot longer MTBF than any human has :). That's why MTBF on a SSD is useless. The TBW rating is far more informative.

Actually not -- that SSD would probably last the odd 200 years at the rate you were using it ("Poo Tin" from Russia permitting if no Nukes get involved in Europe these days) . Users don't need to worry these days any more about the reliability of SSD's for typical use or even with standard "Spinners" in a RAID 0 configuration.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7

geneo

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There just seems to be no obvious logic to figures.

I am guessing % is probably just the actual writes / theoretical writes.
But if that was true, secondary drive should probably be say 99% or so?

I guess the point is they will stil outlive me though LOL.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Primary drive

This is the optane - i used to write all my vhds here hence high count, but I decided to get a second drive.

Those power on figures are complete nonsense.

View attachment 26616



Secondary Drive

This is my secondary drive - it is the large vhds that thrash the drive 17TB in about 6 months LOL.


View attachment 26615

Post an image with all of the individual values, not just the Health / Status.

Optane should not age like traditional SSD, they don't have erase cycles.
It may just be the authors haven't considered that and are misinterpreting. Or something else.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    DIY
    CPU
    10900K, 5.2 GHz all-core
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus Hero XIII Wifi
    Memory
    32GB G.skill TridentZ RGB 3200CL14 B-die @ 4100 MHz 16-16-34
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus ROG Strix 2070 Super A8G
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio, Vanatoo Transparent One; Klipsch R-12SWi Sub
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Eizo CG2730, ViewSonic VP2768
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440p x 2
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB (OS+), Samsung 980 1TB (games), Raid 0: 1TB 850 EVO + 1TB 860 EVO. Sabrent USB-C DS-SC5B docking station: 6TB WDC Black, 6TB Ironwolf Pro; 2TB WDC Black
    PSU
    750W Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium Plus
    Case
    Fractal Design Meshify 2 dark tint glass
    Cooling
    EK-AIO 360 D-RGB w/Phanteks T30-120 fans, Noctua NF-A14 Chromax case fan
    Keyboard
    Glorious GMMK TKL - Brown mechanical, lubed modded
    Mouse
    Logitech G305 wireless gaming
    Internet Speed
    350 Mb/s down, 12 Mb/s up
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender, Macrium Reflect 8 ;-)
    Other Info
    Logitech C920e Webcam (crap don't buy)
  • Operating System
    Mac OS
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Apple 13" Macbook Pro 2020 (m1)
    CPU
    M1
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2560x1600

hsehestedt

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Optane should not age like traditional SSD, they don't have erase cycles.
Incorrect. Just like standard SSDs, Optane memory still has a limited number of write cycles, however, the number of cycles is simply MUCH larger. This is why Optane memory still has a TBW rating. If it was truly unlimited, Optane memory would not have TBW or DWPD ratings.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7-11700K
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime Z590-A
    Memory
    128GB Crucial Ballistix 3200MHz DRAM
    Graphics Card(s)
    No GPU - CPU graphics only (for now)
    Sound Card
    Realtek (on motherboard)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP Envy 32
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    1 x 1TB NVMe Gen 4 x 4 SSD
    1 x 2TB NVMe Gen 3 x 4 SSD
    2 x 512GB 2.5" SSDs
    2 x 8TB HD
    PSU
    Corsair HX850i
    Case
    Corsair iCue 5000X RGB
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black cooler + 10 case fans
    Keyboard
    CODE backlit mechanical keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    300Mb down / 20Mb up
    Browser
    Chromium Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Additional options installed:
    WiFi 6E PCIe adapter
    ASUS ThunderboltEX 4 PCIe adapter
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Spectre x360 15-BL012DX
    CPU
    Intel i7-7500U
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Dual Intel HD 620 and Nvidia GeForce 940MX
    Sound Card
    Built-in Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4k 15-inch
    Screen Resolution
    4k (3840 x 2160)
    Hard Drives
    1TB Seagate FireCuda 510 NVMe SSD
    Internet Speed
    300Mb down / 20Mb up
    Browser
    Chromium Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    RAM Upgraded from 16GB to 32GB WiFi Upgraded from WiFi 5 to WiFi 6 SSD upgraded from 512GB NVMe SSD to 1TB Seagate FireCuda 510 NVMe SSD

cereberus

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Incorrect. Just like standard SSDs, Optane memory still has a limited number of write cycles, however, the number of cycles is simply MUCH larger. This is why Optane memory still has a TBW rating. If it was truly unlimited, Optane memory would not have TBW or DWPD ratings.
Well both the main drive and the optane cache drive show a similar reduction. I did some googling and guaranteed endurance is only 300 TBW. But on that basis, I should get up to 10 years but I seriously doubt laptop will last that long anyway as it runs quite hot at times. Besides I usually end up replacing after 5 years anyway.

I will post full output from program later today.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro + others in VHDs
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Vivobook 14
    CPU
    I7
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    N/A
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Optane NVME SSD, 1 TB NVME SSD
    PSU
    Yep, got one
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois
    Keyboard
    Built in
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wired
    Internet Speed
    72 Mb/s :-(
    Browser
    Edge mostly
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0

cereberus

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Here we go.

Clearly 96% is item 3 minus item 5.
What is interesting is cache memory has no threshold - I take that to mean that even if cache failed, memory would still work - I presume it auto turns off the cache.

I have no idea what the composite temperature means unless in deg Kelvin LOL.

I cannot see anything obvious to be concerned about.

cheers

C.



MAIN DRIVE

Quoted endurance 300 TBW


1649664489751.png

OPTANE CACHE DRIVE

1649664556655.png

Secondary Drive

Quoted endurance 600 TBW

1649664913795.png
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro + others in VHDs
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Vivobook 14
    CPU
    I7
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    N/A
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Optane NVME SSD, 1 TB NVME SSD
    PSU
    Yep, got one
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois
    Keyboard
    Built in
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wired
    Internet Speed
    72 Mb/s :-(
    Browser
    Edge mostly
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0
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