Installing Linux not as dual boot.

I want to try something with KVM and so I want to install Linux on a partition on my second hard drive but do not want to affect my windows boot manager in any way.

I do not want to dual boot - I just want to be able to select the Linux partition from my bios. All the info I glean from web suggests Linux will take over and I will not be able to boot windows without adding it to the grub menu.

I just want 100% segregation.

Is this possible?

EDIT - I bit the bullet and went for it (always got my reflect backups) - it was much easier than I expected. The trick was to manually create an EFI partition first, then install ubuntu to the unallocated space.

It changed the default boot order to Linux drive and booted fine. Equally, when I set boot order back to windows OS drive, it booted fine.

Now for kvm...

cereberus said:

I want to try something with KVM and so I want to install Linux on a partition on my second hard drive but do not want to affect my windows boot manager in any way.

I do not want to dual boot - I just want to be able to select the Linux partition from my bios. All the info I glean from web suggests Linux will take over and I will not be able to boot windows without adding it to the grub menu.

I just want 100% segregation.

Is this possible?

Click to expand...

@cereberus

Yes -- easily nothing should be touched on your primary drive.

1) Create a Linux partition on 2nd drive with EFI (GPT)

2) install your linux system to that disk

Note: try and avoid using "Automated" installs as you' get problems assigning the partitions properly and it's a mess if everything on root under '/

I'd suggest somthing like this EFI partition (/dev/sdb1) FAT32 100 MB
Root partition ( /dev /sdb2 - size say 10 GB - depends on what you want to install -- if a desktop GUI then 20 GB should be well more than enough)
Home partition for user data etc /dev/sdb3
Swap file /dev/sdb4 - small one say 3GB

3) Once base system installed you need to install the GRUB boot loader properly on to the correct EFI partition

so on the root you've got /boot . Make a new directory --mkdir /boot/efi. Now mount the EFI partition to it -- mount /dev/sda1 /boot/efi.

4) Install grub --- different distros have essentially similar commands but check for the exact one you are using

in ArchLinux (and similar) it's : grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --bootloader-id ANYNAME --efi-directory=/boot/efi

you also have to "configure" grub -- usually grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg.

Reboot and you should see in your bios boot menu the 2 EFI entries -- one your normal Windows one and the other --EFI file ANYNAME.

You should also install SAMBA for networking shares and if you need Windows SMB1 then in the samba config set min protocol to NT2 !!!.

Q.E.D

I'd suggest ARCH LINUX although command line driven it's actaully very easy and doesn't hose things up via "automated" settings.

Use this as a guide :


You can have /home included in the main partition but I prefer a separate one -- so at the genfstab stage make sure /home is mounted on /mnt.

Don't forget to add yourself also to the "Super users" (sudo / su) as well.

Install virtual machine manager etc. Use the virtmanager GUI


Note for Host / Guest communication you need a little trick to avoid complex networking issues :

This works :

1) create an Isolated network on the Host say in any directory for example /tmp/isolated.xml (XML file) and give it a fixed IP address e.g as shown. (Use any decent text editor to create the XML file - you don't need a special XML editor --Windows Notepad is fine too.)

In the example I've defined my network with the name isolated and the file is on /tmp.isolated.xml (note to create an empty file in Linux simply use the command touch e.g touch /tmp/isolated.xml - now you can edit it).

<network>
<name>isolated</name>
<ip address="192.168.254.1" netmask="255.255.255.0">
<dhcp>
<range start="192.168.254.2" end="192.168.254.254"/>
</dhcp>
</ip>
</network>

2) Define it to the Host system : sudo virsh net-define /tmp/isolated.xml

3) Start it : sudo virsh net-start isolated

4) to start automatically at HOST boot : sudo virsh net-autostart isolated

you should see console message : Network isolated marked as autostarted

5) restart the libvirtd service. (sudo systemctl restart libvirtd) -- to automatically start the libvirtd service at HOST boot : sudo systemctl enable libvirtd)

6)Now for the NICS for the VM in the VM config file -- nic 1 as <nic inteface e.g ethx or empxx or whatever>:macvtap source mode bridge, and the second one as Virtual network <name --in my case isolated> device model virtio -- you can use any hardware for the model - I'm using the paravirtualised stuff for windows VM's on the downloadable winvirtio iso from fedora site -- works with other distros without issue.

7) start guest -- For guest access to the HOST the address will be fixed at 192.168.254.1 (note that's not the HOST's real IP address which is accessible as normal by rest of your LAN).

For a GUI for your Linux desktop I'd suggest KDE although the example uses GNOME -- there's a load of choices. I'd leave UBUNTU out though --there's a few problems with a) maual installing and b) the wretched TPM, secure boot for Windows 11 VM's and the stupid repos !!!. to install software on Arch / Manjaro --simple -- pacman -S package and for update pacman -Syu.

Again any probs post back !!. (Wireless networking can cause a problem with HOST/GUEST communication but a way round is to have wifi just installled on the guest and access it then just like any other machine. In that case you don't need the "Isolated network". I usually have all this stuff via LAN).

Note also the Windows boot loader can also pick up the 2nd drive - doesn't hose up the windows boot loader -- just scroll through to "use a device" on the Windows boot menu.

Runs win 11 VM's beautifully -- for tpm -- either use real hardware /dev/tpm0 or use the emulated one (IBM) and set the TPM device as V2 emulated - doesnt matterwhether CIS or CRB.

On the guest you can install the windows virtio drivers from the fedora site. They can be quite efficient too - especially for the video . mouse / keyboard driver and probably choose ich9 for sound for the guest.

good luck and have fun. Any probs just post back.

BTW you can have multiple W11 VM systems on the same VM if you use vhdx files for the windows machines. (Obviously not concurrently though) - and when you start the VM you'll get the Windows standard boot screen so you can choose which VM to boot. Saves messing around with a load of vm's - and makes saving easier - just back up the VM's primary file usually something like myvm.imk etc. I've 6 Windows VM's done like that -- one VM disk with 6 vhdx files.

For example on another system : from the VM boot ->



Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

@cereberus

Yes -- easily nothing should be touched on your primary drive.

1) Create a Linux partition on 2nd drive with EFI (GPT)

2) install your linux system to that disk

Note: try and avoid using "Automated" installs as you' get problems assigning the partitions properly and it's a mess if everything on root under '/

I'd suggest somthing like this EFI partition (/dev/sdb1) FAT32 100 MB
Root partition ( /dev /sdb2 - size say 10 GB - depends on what you want to install -- if a desktop GUI then 20 GB should be well more than enough)
Home partition for user data etc /dev/sdb3
Swap file /dev/sdb4 - small one say 3GB

3) Once base system installed you need to install the GRUB boot loader properly on to the correct EFI partition

so on the root you've got /boot . Make a new directory --mkdir /boot/efi. Now mount the EFI partition to it -- mount /dev/sda1 /boot/efi.

4) Install grub --- different distros have essentially similar commands but check for the exact one you are using

in ArchLinux (and similar) it's : grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --bootloader-id ANYNAME --efi-directory=/boot/efi

you also have to "configure" grub -- usually grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg.

Reboot and you should see in your bios boot menu the 2 EFI entries -- one your normal Windows one and the other --EFI file ANYNAME.

You should also install SAMBA for networking shares and if you need Windows SMB1 then in the samba config set min protocol to NT2 !!!.

Q.E.D

I'd suggest ARCH LINUX although command line driven it's actaully very easy and doesn't hose things up via "automated" settings.

Use this as a guide :

How to Install Arch Linux {Comprehensive Step-by-Step Guide}

This tutorial offers a step-by-step guide to installing and configuring the Arch Linux rolling update distribution on your computer.

phoenixnap.com

You can have /home included in the main partition but I prefer a separate one -- so at the genfstab stage make sure /home is mounted on /mnt.

Don't forget to add yourself also to the "Super users" (sudo / su) as well.

Install virtual machine manager etc. Use the virtmanager GUI

Install and Configure KVM in ArchLinux

KVM stands for Kernel-based Virtual Machine. This software allows users to run multiple virtual machines with different operating systems, thus bypassing the need to follow more conventional means of using Virtualbox. This article shows you how to install and configure KVM on your ArchLinux system.

linuxhint.com

Note for Host / Guest communication you need a little trick to avoid complex networking issues :

This works :

1) create an Isolated network on the Host say in any directory for example /tmp/isolated.xml (XML file) and give it a fixed IP address e.g as shown. (Use any decent text editor to create the XML file - you don't need a special XML editor --Windows Notepad is fine too.)

In the example I've defined my network with the name isolated and the file is on /tmp.isolated.xml (note to create an empty file in Linux simply use the command touch e.g touch /tmp/isolated.xml - now you can edit it).

<network>
<name>isolated</name>
<ip address="192.168.254.1" netmask="255.255.255.0">
<dhcp>
<range start="192.168.254.2" end="192.168.254.254"/>
</dhcp>
</ip>
</network>

2) Define it to the Host system : sudo virsh net-define /tmp/isolated.xml

3) Start it : sudo virsh net-start isolated

4) to start automatically at HOST boot : sudo virsh net-autostart isolated

you should see console message : Network isolated marked as autostarted

5) restart the libvirtd service. (sudo systemctl restart libvirtd) -- to automatically start the libvirtd service at HOST boot : sudo systemctl enable libvirtd)

6)Now for the NICS for the VM in the VM config file -- nic 1 as <nic inteface e.g ethx or empxx or whatever>:macvtap source mode bridge, and the second one as Virtual network <name --in my case isolated> device model virtio -- you can use any hardware for the model - I'm using the paravirtualised stuff for windows VM's on the downloadable winvirtio iso from fedora site -- works with other distros without issue.

7) start guest -- For guest access to the HOST the address will be fixed at 192.168.254.1 (note that's not the HOST's real IP address which is accessible as normal by rest of your LAN).

For a GUI for your Linux desktop I'd suggest KDE although the example uses GNOME -- there's a load of choices. I'd leave UBUNTU out though --there's a few problems with a) maual installing and b) the wretched TPM, secure boot for Windows 11 VM's and the stupid repos !!!. to install software on Arch / Manjaro --simple -- pacman -S package and for update pacman -Syu.

Again any probs post back !!. (Wireless networking can cause a problem with HOST/GUEST communication but a way round is to have wifi just installled on the guest and access it then just like any other machine. In that case you don't need the "Isolated network". I usually have all this stuff via LAN).

Note also the Windows boot loader can also pick up the 2nd drive - doesn't hose up the windows boot loader -- just scroll through to "use a device" on the Windows boot menu.

Runs win 11 VM's beautifully -- for tpm -- either use real hardware /dev/tpm0 or use the emulated one (IBM) and set the TPM device as V2 emulated - doesnt matterwhether CIS or CRB.

On the guest you can install the windows virtio drivers from the fedora site. They can be quite efficient too - especially for the video . mouse / keyboard driver and probably choose ich9 for sound for the guest.

good luck and have fun. Any probs just post back.

BTW you can have multiple W11 VM systems on the same VM if you use vhdx files for the windows machines. (Obviously not concurrently though) - and when you start the VM you'll get the Windows standard boot screen so you can choose which VM to boot. Saves messing around with a load of vm's - and makes saving easier - just back up the VM's primary file usually something like myvm.imk etc. I've 6 Windows VM's done like that -- one VM disk with 6 vhdx files.

For example on another system : from the VM boot ->

View attachment 53185

Cheers
jimbo

Click to expand...

Thanks but you must have missed my edit - It was very easy. I did not have to do all that stuff re efi with ubuntu installer - it just found efi and it all worked. I can select Linux efi or Windows EFI from bios - perfect.

sorry i cut off and go direct my answer

1. boot from usb
2. install your linux distro to 2nd hdd/ssd
3. put the bootloader on SDB (SDA= your windows boot) or you can put on partition /
4. boot... you will see only windows boot manager ... go to windows
5. install easybcd
6. add new partition from easybcd
7. reboot

then you will go to windows boot manager with linux option. if you choose the linux.. it will load bootloader for your linux + selection to back to your windows..

use your linux.. afterthat you can reboot/shutdown.. it will still use windows bootmnager
IF you want only boot from your BIOS then skip number 5 and just use BIOS multi boot hdd/sdd (i can do this with linux mint, but i cant do this with zorin... i dont know why.. just fyi )

EnvioX said:

sorry i cut off and go direct my answer

1. boot from usb
2. install your linux distro to 2nd hdd/ssd
3. put the bootloader on SDB (SDA= your windows boot) or you can put on partition /
4. boot... you will see only windows boot manager ... go to windows
5. install easybcd
6. add new partition from easybcd
7. reboot

then you will go to windows boot manager with linux option. if you choose the linux.. it will load bootloader for your linux + selection to back to your windows..

use your linux.. afterthat you can reboot/shutdown.. it will still use windows bootmnager
IF you want only boot from your BIOS then skip number 5 and just use BIOS multi boot hdd/sdd (i can do this with linux mint, but i cant do this with zorin... i dont know why.. just fyi )

Click to expand...

Thanks - I have it working exactly as I want. I wanted 100% segregation i.e. no dual boot, no adding linux to windows boot manager etc. as this is only a temporary setup for demo purposes.

It works how I wanted it - I have windows boot manager as default. If I want to run Linux, I click on Linux efi from bios - job done. Works perfectly - anything else is beyond my needs. However, I have bookmarked this post so I can refer to your instructions should the need arise.

cereberus said:

Thanks - I have it working exactly as I want. I wanted 100% segregation i.e. no dual boot, no adding linux to windows boot manager etc. as this is only a temporary setup for demo purposes.

It works how I wanted it - I have windows boot manager as default. If I want to run Linux, I click on Linux efi from bios - job done. Works perfectly - anything else is beyond my needs. However, I have bookmarked this post so I can refer to your instructions should the need arise.

Click to expand...

forgive me for my simple and bad english |

Ok, next problem. My Linux installation does not see my drive 0 - not a big deal but I would like to solve if possible.

Mu drive 0 on my pc is an Optane NVME and needs IRST drivers.

Is it possible to add the drivers so I can see drive 0?

cereberus said:

y Linux installation does not see my drive 0 - not a big deal but I would like to solve if possible.

Mu drive 0 on my pc is an Optane NVME and needs IRST drivers.

Click to expand...

try to change RAID to AHCI but carefull your windows will fail on boot

That's interesting as I didn't know you could have linux installed without dual boot.

As for the last post but one - I think I'd be inclined to change the optane drive to a non optane one as a solution to that. I did that in a laptop.

EnvioX said:

try to change RAID to AHCI but carefull your windows will fail on boot

Click to expand...

Yeah I was aware of this but more hassle than it is worth. I can copy what I need via onedrive.

Hazel123 said:

That's interesting as I didn't know you could have linux installed without dual boot.

Click to expand...

If you see another post, I also found Macrium Reflect can backup and restore EXT4 partitions with intelligent sector backups exactly as for Windows NTFS partitions. I backed up the installation, deleted it and restored it.

cereberus said:

Thanks but you must have missed my edit - It was very easy. I did not have to do all that stuff re efi with ubuntu installer - it just found efi and it all worked. I can select Linux efi or Windows EFI from bios - perfect.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Could you show us exactly what you did.
I think I like it.

Ps, No problems with the clock being an hour off after getting back to windows?

Ciao, Han

han jansen said:

Hi,

Could you show us exactly what you did.
I think I like it.

Ps, No problems with the clock being an hour off after getting back to windows?

Ciao, Han

Click to expand...

All I did was create some unallocated space on second drive (100 GB), the ran installer from a bootable usb drive.

When I got to section asking where to install it, you get the default option that wipes entire drive - do not choose that.

Click link that says something else.

I then added an efi partition to spare space from pull down menu and set size to 200 MB.
I then added a second partition using rest of spare space, and set it to be root /.

I then carried on and that was it.

Obviously backup pc before you try this!

cereberus said:

All I did was create some unallocated space on second drive (100 GB), the ran installer from a bootable usb drive.

When I got to section asking where to install it, you get the default option that wipes entire drive - do not choose that.

Click link that says something else.

I then added an efi partition to spare space from pull down menu and set size to 200 MB.
I then added a second partition using rest of spare space, and set it to be root /.

I then carried on and that was it.

Obviously backup pc before you try this!

Click to expand...

Thank you very much.

Han