Solved Investigating random BSOD since 2017 on a Thinkpad...


grospoulet

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6:13 AM
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Windows 11
Hello everyone,

I'm still investigating from time to time some random BSOD I could never fix on a Lenovo T440P... I posted first in 2017 on tenforums: Random BSOD even with fresh reset, can't find the cause - Windows 10 Help Forums

Things went well for a long time, BSOD were so rare I didn't bother investigating.
But, recently, I got some file corruption issues (ie: multiple database corruption in Syncthing).

About my laptop: bios is modded just to remove the Wi-Fi card whitelist from Lenovo. I got BSOD before and after this modification, I'm pretty sure it's not related.
Otherwise, BIOS is reset to default settings except secure boot is enabled. I disabled Throttlestop so there is no undervolting or TDP modification.
Obviously, this machine was built in 2014 and is not under warranty. Also, this is not officially supported by Windows 11 although the behavior was the same in Windows 10 (a few random BSOD with apparently the same causes).

I did some pre-check steps:
- Windows 11 was installed from ISO not long ago (reset while keeping programs and user data)
- Lenovo BIOS diagnostic : OK
- Intel processor diagnostic tool: OK
- Windows memory diagnostic : OK (default settings)
- Passmark memtest86: default settings (parallel mode), 4 passes OK

BSOD happens specifically :
- after several minutes to one hour of prime95 blend torture-test
- after about 15 minutes of AIDA64 stress test
- sometimes when shutting down Windows (not "reboot")
- whith only one of any of the two RAM sticks, it may crash on shutdown but it seems much more stable with stress tests (didn't test more than one hour)

I tried to be concise so you can read it quickly and help me to diagnose this with the right steps...

Thank you very much in advance and thank you again for these forums (ten & eleven) which help a lot of users like me.
 

Attachments

  • T440P-(2022-04-25_21-10-51).zip
    1.9 MB · Views: 1
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4910MQ
    Motherboard
    Lenovo T440P Modbios v2.55 (deleted Wi-Fi card whitelist)
    Memory
    Crucial 2 x 8 GB DDR3 1600 1.35V CT102464BF160B:C16FND
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    - Samsung PM883 4 TB
    - Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Keyboard
    AZERTY
    Mouse
    T460 Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    ~200Mbps up/down
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Wi-Fi card: Intel AX200

    BIOS modified to disable Wi-Fi cards whitelist with the following method:
    https://notthebe.ee/Removing-the-Wi-Fi-Whiteslit-on-Haswell-Thinkpads-T440p-W540-T540-etc.html

zbook

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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz
    Motherboard
    Product : 190A Version : KBC Version 94.56
    Memory
    16 GB Total: Manufacturer : Samsung MemoryType : DDR3 FormFactor : SODIMM Capacity : 8GB Speed : 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Quadro K3100M; Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600
    Sound Card
    IDT High Definition Audio CODEC; PNP Device ID HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_111D&DEV_76E0
    Hard Drives
    Model Hitachi HTS727575A9E364
    Antivirus
    Microsoft Defender
    Other Info
    Mobile Workstation

grospoulet

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Hello @zbook,
Thank you for your quick reply.
I remember I used an unlicensed version of Adobe software (Photoshop & Illustrator), is it what you are talking about?
I use them so rarely I uninstalled them before doing stress tests and system dump with your script, but there might be some modifications still in place (hosts file...).

Could you please let me know which software / downloaded data could be causing the issue? I would be glad to remove them.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4910MQ
    Motherboard
    Lenovo T440P Modbios v2.55 (deleted Wi-Fi card whitelist)
    Memory
    Crucial 2 x 8 GB DDR3 1600 1.35V CT102464BF160B:C16FND
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    - Samsung PM883 4 TB
    - Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Keyboard
    AZERTY
    Mouse
    T460 Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    ~200Mbps up/down
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Wi-Fi card: Intel AX200

    BIOS modified to disable Wi-Fi cards whitelist with the following method:
    https://notthebe.ee/Removing-the-Wi-Fi-Whiteslit-on-Haswell-Thinkpads-T440p-W540-T540-etc.html

grospoulet

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Thread Starter
Local time
6:13 AM
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OS
Windows 11
This is the first time I try to run Prime95 in safe mode boot and for now it is stable... almost 6 hours.
But the CPU clock stays at 2900Mhz (nominal frequency, without turbo) and the fan runs slower than in normal mode boot.

So I guess my RAM and my motherboard are okay and this is a software-related issue.

I have a friend having the same laptop (Thinkpad T440P) who kindly sent me a report (unfortunately in French). It might help us find the difference between the two configurations?
 

Attachments

  • MATT-LAPTOP-(2022-04-27_16-40-17).zip
    1 MB · Views: 0

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4910MQ
    Motherboard
    Lenovo T440P Modbios v2.55 (deleted Wi-Fi card whitelist)
    Memory
    Crucial 2 x 8 GB DDR3 1600 1.35V CT102464BF160B:C16FND
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    - Samsung PM883 4 TB
    - Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Keyboard
    AZERTY
    Mouse
    T460 Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    ~200Mbps up/down
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Wi-Fi card: Intel AX200

    BIOS modified to disable Wi-Fi cards whitelist with the following method:
    https://notthebe.ee/Removing-the-Wi-Fi-Whiteslit-on-Haswell-Thinkpads-T440p-W540-T540-etc.html

glasskuter

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Windows 11 Pro 21H2 22000.739
Are you monitoring your heat during these tests?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 21H2 22000.739
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 7080
    CPU
    i9-10900
    Memory
    32 gb
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 m.2 2230-256+1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell Premium
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 9020
    CPU
    i7-4770
    Memory
    24 gb
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 gb Toshiba BG4 M.2 NVE SSB and 1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    standard
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium

grospoulet

New member
Thread Starter
Local time
6:13 AM
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OS
Windows 11
Thank you for your reply!

I didn't log the temperature but the chassis cannot cool it down correctly.
When running Prime95 (small FFTs for maximum heat), CPU core & package are between 90° and 93°C with some CPU throttling. When watching with ThrottleStop (I don't modify any settings, as stock), PROCHOT is often triggered.

Prime95 ran fine for more than 9 hours in safe mode without overheating: I don't have access to CPU temperature in safe mode but the fan runs slower and the laptop seems way cooler.

New thermal paste has been applied but the T440P is known to run best with 37W TDP CPU, and maybe it's because I upgraded it with a 4910MQ which is a 47W TDP CPU. With that said, the other laptop has a 4700MQ CPU which is also a 47W TDP CPU, and it runs Prime95 just fine.

I used Intel XTU a long time ago but I uninstalled it. Throttlestop is not launched at boot.

You may be on the right path, I guess some CPU limits are removed when Windows runs in normal mode and the CPU is way hotter than allowed. But I don't know where it comes from.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4910MQ
    Motherboard
    Lenovo T440P Modbios v2.55 (deleted Wi-Fi card whitelist)
    Memory
    Crucial 2 x 8 GB DDR3 1600 1.35V CT102464BF160B:C16FND
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    - Samsung PM883 4 TB
    - Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Keyboard
    AZERTY
    Mouse
    T460 Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    ~200Mbps up/down
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Wi-Fi card: Intel AX200

    BIOS modified to disable Wi-Fi cards whitelist with the following method:
    https://notthebe.ee/Removing-the-Wi-Fi-Whiteslit-on-Haswell-Thinkpads-T440p-W540-T540-etc.html

grospoulet

New member
Thread Starter
Local time
6:13 AM
Posts
5
OS
Windows 11
Hello again,

This might help other people in the same case.
I launched ThrottleStop and made sure in TPL settings that "Clamp" is enabled in power limit controls.
So, when the CPU is really stressed (such as with a Prime95 test), the package power never exceeds the long power (PL1) value.
The Lenovo T440P was sold with a 37W TDP CPU at most if I remember, but the bios allows up to 47WTDP CPUs.

When setting PL1 to 47W, I get some CPU throttle in Prime95.
When setting PL1 to 43W, I don't have any CPU throttle in Prime95.

In both cases, I didn't have any BSOD with Prime95, OCCT, Aida64 system stress test... It's currently stable for 4 hours, which never happened before.

Indeed, when "clamp" isn't checked in Throttlestop, the minimal CPU frequency under load is it's nominal frequency (2.9Ghz for my CPU). Even if the load exceeds the TDP PL1, the CPU won't be clocked under 2.9Ghz and it might exceed it's nominal TDP (47W) in some specific computation (Prime95, OCCT...).

When disabling clamping, my TDP somehow went up to 60W (!) in OCCT (AVX2) and slowly went back to 47W. after a while, it starts to throttle because of PROCHOT throttle (thermal throttle), not TDP. Then it goes back to higher than nominal TDP and I observe several TDP spikes like this before it crashes with a BSOD:

CPU thermal throttle.jpg

Now, I don't have any BSOD anymore, but I need a software like Throttlestop to handle this. I should continue to investigate why this behaves like that by default, but about this BSOD... I think the problem is solved. :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4910MQ
    Motherboard
    Lenovo T440P Modbios v2.55 (deleted Wi-Fi card whitelist)
    Memory
    Crucial 2 x 8 GB DDR3 1600 1.35V CT102464BF160B:C16FND
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    - Samsung PM883 4 TB
    - Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Keyboard
    AZERTY
    Mouse
    T460 Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    ~200Mbps up/down
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Wi-Fi card: Intel AX200

    BIOS modified to disable Wi-Fi cards whitelist with the following method:
    https://notthebe.ee/Removing-the-Wi-Fi-Whiteslit-on-Haswell-Thinkpads-T440p-W540-T540-etc.html
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