Items Disabled In GPO / Reg still appear in Task Mgr, running tasks


RJT

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W11 Enterprise 21H2 ... Just went into Task Mgr for first time and found Windows is running tasks for things that have been disabled in GPO (and therefore in the reg). One example: GPO has CEIP disabled (been disabled for weeks), but in Task Mgr the CEIP folder consisted of several tasks that were running daily. Same with some telemetry-related tasks, even though all telemetry is turned off in GPO/reg. (I also have Updates turned off so I can do them manually, but Windows scans/checks for updates every 22hrs regardless, which I can disable by services.msc Update Orchestrator set to disabled... but annoying configuring GPO isn't enough.)

I imagine these Task Sched tasks were there by default but am wondering why they are still running when they should be disabled? TIA

EDIT: PS I deleted the tasks (one remade itself) but what bothers me is that W11 seems to be ignoring settings in GP... so you wonder if even deleting the task will do any good, or is MS just doing what it wants regardless, which makes all the privacy-security related settings useless.
 

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@RJT

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glasskuter

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I also have Updates turned off so I can do them manually
As far as WU is concerned, MS considers certain updates critical and MS has stated in these cases WU policy will override group policy settings. Therefore, even if you have WU set to not update in group policy, MS can and does turn it on to scan for and apply these critical updates. I believe the same goes for defender definitions. This is not new to Windows 11. It worked in 10 the same way. I have found the only group policy regarding WU that MS honors 100% is the driver update policy.

Even if you set your connection as metered these updates still get through.

As far as telemetry, if group policy doesn't do it, try the regedit method in this article https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-10-11-disable-telemetry/
 

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RJT

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@RJT

Please type Winver in the Taskbar search box.
When you create a topic, please include the exact Windows 11 version.

For example, mine would be: Win 10 Home 22000.1042
Thanks, I would have but was (and am) on my Linux machine. But last update I applied was 8/25/22 so believe version was 22000.756 or .856 ... I defer security updates for 30d to allow time for bugs to surface.
 

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RJT

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As far as WU is concerned, MS considers certain updates critical and MS has stated in these cases WU policy will override group policy settings. Therefore, even if you have WU set to not update in group policy, MS can and does turn it on to scan for and apply these critical updates. I believe the same goes for defender definitions. This is not new to Windows 11. It worked in 10 the same way. I have found the only group policy regarding WU that MS honors 100% is the driver update policy.

Even if you set your connection as metered these updates still get through.

That's good to know, thanks. Will definitely leave Update Orchestrator disabled then, as it cannot scan for daily updates with that disabled, in my version anyway, (also stripped Update Medic of its permissions and disabled it, so it can't change the update settings back). I use Windows Update MiniTool for updates so I can decide myself by researching each update and its status (buggy or not, or DEFCON rating on askWoody), along with if they're critical to me or not, and can also Hide updates I don't want. Ex: MS may say there is a 'critical update' but it turns out it's for Cortana or BitDefender, both of which I uninstalled through the powershell (along with all MS "Modern Apps" and the MS Store). Even buggy OS security patches can cause issues as we are all aware, so I prefer to defer those until it's clear they're not causing problems.

As far as telemetry, if group policy doesn't do it, try the regedit method in this article https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-10-11-disable-telemetry/
Appreciate it, but that's the point Having applied all those settings (right up to the Task Mgr), did not expect that anything should be running in Task Manager... otherwise what are those settings for? Show? If you turn something off, it should stop running, right? (speaking rhetorically, not at you :) ). Especially something as plain and blatant as the CEIP which is a specific telemetry setting all of its own, not vague or convoluted.... either you agree to participate or you don't. At the very least, MS should have a note in the GPO and anywhere else there is a setting for opting out of CEIP that you must also go to Task Manager, look or the CEIP folder and disable its tasks. The assumption is that turning it off is all that is required, especially with no indication otherwise.

When you take the time (considerable time) to configure an OS, especially one like Windows that requires so much configuring, the expectation is that the settings are honored. Task Manager proves they are not honored. What else isn't honored? Is opting out of the Inking setting (keylogger) ignored too?

On that note, does anyone know the exact service or file that is used as the built-in keylogger in W11? I searched for that info and could not find anything but how to disable it. I don't trust simply disabling it, due to all I just said. I prefer the keylogger stripped of its permissions and firewalled.
 

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glasskuter

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the expectation is that the settings are honored.
Yes, but as Windows has evolved, MS has defied expectations especially in some core aspects of the OS. It's hard for users to accept that we do not own the OS so when it comes down to the nitty gritty, MS can (and does) override the user in a lot of cases. Just wondering are you an IT manager or is this your personal machine?
 

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Ghot

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Thanks, I would have but was (and am) on my Linux machine. But last update I applied was 8/25/22 so believe version was 22000.756 or .856 ... I defer security updates for 30d to allow time for bugs to surface.


The reason I asked was because if you're on the Insider channel (like 25xxx or 26xxx rather than 22000), telemetry would have to be turned ON.

For us regular channel folk... you can disable some telemetry with Winaero tweaker... and some more in Task Scheduler. I'm on Win 10 at the moment so I can't check Task Scheduler.

It's probably the same as Win 10...

In Task Scheduler Library...

Microsoft > Windows > Customer Experience Improvement Program (both) (disable these)
Microsoft > Windows > Application Experience > Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser (disable this)

...are the main ones I remember.


But the real problem is, that MS keeps turning Telemetry back on, every now and then.

In Winaero Tweaker you have this, which if nothing else is really fast and easy... WHEN they turn it back on.
It;s available in Win 10 and Win 11.

Image1.png


 
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O&O shutup is your friend after every update
 

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RJT

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Thanks for all the input. Not on an Insider channel. Am using Winaero, O&O and W10 Privacy (I think it's called), and also created a set of firewall rules based on W11 telemetry endpoints. But it's really playing whack a mole and you're never sure you whacked the mole anyway. Or that the mole can even be whacked. Seems like MS runs W10/11 in reverse "God Mode" - nothing can truly be killed. (Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression after weeks of this.)

From the release of W10 I shared glasskutter's impression, which was why I never updated from W7, but hoped Enterprise edition would be different. Since it doesn't seem to be, will instead use Linux for my business and only keep the W11 machine for those few Windows programs needed, converting it to a VM to be run as guest inside Linux when needed, keeping the VM permanently offline (and therefore no need to update it or can update the W11 machine rarely as I feel to and generate a new VM from that if there is a need).

Been using Windows since v3.11 and while I have always disliked MS's practices when it comes to privacy (and notoriously buggy patches/updates) I appreciated the OS's through the years. Especially XP and W7... but now with W11 -- and after setting up a Linux machine over the last few months (parallel with the W11 machine) -- it's so much nicer to not have any of these concerns to deal with in Linux! Never thought I'd say this but I prefer Linux over Windows now. And they actually function very similar and even look similar (at least Ubuntu with gnome desktop does). However there are a few professional Win programs I use that have no Linux parallel...

If only ReactOS (Front Page) was funded by corporate sponsors to accelerate its development, we could all be running Windows programs on a private, open-source OS. So far it's only in alpha and running on XP-era hardware, able to run XP-era Windows software. So it has a long way to go to get to the big time, and volunteer developers don't have the luxury of coding full time. But I hope that changes and can employ that OS when the time comes, alongside Linux.
 
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Well, as I mentioned in some other thread about some other subject... MS has backdoors into their OSes. They can, if they desire, "get in" anytime they want. :-)
 

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RJT

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Well, as I mentioned in some other thread about some other subject... MS has backdoors into their OSes. They can, if they desire, "get in" anytime they want. :-)
Such is the risk with any proprietary software... can never be trusted, but it's especially important when it comes to an OS. However MS built Windows so if they want to turn it into something horrifically exploitative, that's their prerogative. Younger gens don't seem to care anyway, so it's not surprising MS went the way it went. I'm a believer that if people don't exercise a right, they will lose it, and I do care about privacy rights, so if MS is not going to honor settings that they themselves put in the OS, then luckily there is an answer to that and it's Linux. And the few programs I need in Windows can be used offline, so can relegate that OS to lock-down status and use it that way as long as needed, as little as needed. A shame, but it is what it is.

I am still interested though if anyone knows the file name or service of the keylogger ??
 

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Ghot

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Such is the risk with any proprietary software... can never be trusted, but it's especially important when it comes to an OS. However MS built Windows so if they want to turn it into something horrifically exploitative, that's their prerogative. Younger gens don't seem to care anyway, so it's not surprising MS went the way it went. I'm a believer that if people don't exercise a right, they will lose it, and I do care about privacy rights, so if MS is not going to honor settings that they themselves put in the OS, then luckily there is an answer to that and it's Linux. And the few programs I need in Windows can be used offline, so can relegate that OS to lock-down status and use it that way as long as needed, as little as needed. A shame, but it is what it is.

I am still interested though if anyone knows the file name or service of the keylogger ??


What keylogger?
A backdoor is not a keylogger.
A backdoor is completely hidden from the operating system.
It's a "way" for the programmer to get back into his/her program.
 

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RJT

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What keylogger?
A backdoor is not a keylogger.
A backdoor is completely hidden from the operating system.
It's a "way" for the programmer to get back into his/her program.

Not talking about back doors, talking about the built-in keylogger. Was also one in W10.

I opted out of this immediately upon setting up W11 but don't trust simply opting out. (Edit: That is, as stated earlier in this thread, I prefer to strip its permissions and disable it... hence would like to know its name or service.)
 

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Ghot

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Not talking about back doors, talking about the built-in keylogger. Was also one in W10.

I opted out of this immediately upon setting up W11 but don't trust simply opting out.


Oh... I turned off Inking etc., before I even knew what it was. LOL
I just knew I didn't need anything called "Inking"

I have a LOT of stuff disabled on Win 10 and on Win 11. I mean... a LOT. ^^

For example... I've turned off, disabled, removed things like the following...

Cortana, Widgets, EDGE, most of the built in Apps are gone, WMP, Teams, OneDrive... just about everything.
I've been turning things OFF since Oct 2021, since I installed the RTM version of W11.


In Task Manger, on average, I have...

2 Apps
41 Background Processes
78 Windows Processes

...and that includes Firefox, Bitdefender Internet Security, AIDA64 Extreme, EVGA Precision, TranslucentTB
and Macrium Reflect.... which are all things I installed and have running.


This is my Programs and Features for Win 11...

00000 Win 10 SSD vs Win 11 SSD.jpg

And for Windows Apps in REVO Uninstaller... I removed everything but these items...

00000 REVO - Win 11-10.jpg
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win 11 Home ♦♦♦22621.608
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot® [May 2020]
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
    Motherboard
    Asus Pro WS X570-ACE (BIOS 4201)
    Memory
    G.Skill (F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW)
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA RTX 2070 (08G-P4-2171-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC1220P / ALC S1220A
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U3011 30"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1600
    Hard Drives
    2x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB,
    WD 4TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    WD 8TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    DRW-24B1ST CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling 750W Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Cooler Master ATCS 840 Tower
    Cooling
    CM Hyper 212 EVO (push/pull)
    Keyboard
    Ducky DK9008 Shine II Blue LED
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-100
    Internet Speed
    100/100
    Browser
    Firefox (latest)
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Internet Security
    Other Info
    Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media 2.1
  • Operating System
    Windows XP Pro 32bit w/SP3
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot®
    CPU
    AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (OC'd @ 3.2Ghz)
    Motherboard
    ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
    Memory
    TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX (2 x 1GB, DDR2 800)
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA 256-P2-N758-TR GeForce 8600GT SSC
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ViewSonic G90FB Black 19" Professional (CRT)
    Screen Resolution
    up to 2048 x 1536
    Hard Drives
    WD 36GB 10,000rpm Raptor SATA
    Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA
    Lite-On LTR-52246S CD/RW
    Lite-On LH-18A1P CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Generic Beige case, 80mm fans
    Cooling
    ZALMAN 9500A 92mm CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-BT96a
    Keyboard
    Logitech Classic Keybooard 200
    Internet Speed
    100/100
    Browser
    Firefox 3.x ??
    Antivirus
    Symantec (Norton)
    Other Info
    Still assembled, still runs. Haven't turned it on for 13 years?

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?183088-5000-B-E-on-M2N32-SLI-Dlx-Overclocked&p=2891724#post2891724

RJT

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Oh... I turned off Inking etc., before I even knew what it was. LOL
I just knew I didn't need anything called "Inking"
Right. But that's the thing. Did it really get turned off ? I turned off several things that were nevertheless found in Task Mgr, happily running all along. Maybe the keylogger is running there too... would be nice to know its name.

(Even using W11 offline, if a keylogger or telemetry services are running, they'll just continue gathering data until the computer goes online - even weeks later, and even briefly - then the payloads will be sent in the background. So there is every reason to make sure the things you don't want running, aren't running, regardless.)
 

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  • OS
    W11
    Computer type
    Laptop

Ghot

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Right. But that's the thing. Did it really get turned off ? I turned off several things that were nevertheless found in Task Mgr, happily running all along. Maybe the keylogger is running there too... would be nice to know its name.

(Even using W11 offline, if a keylogger or telemetry services are running, they'll just continue gathering data until the computer goes online - even weeks later, and even briefly - then the payloads will be sent in the background. So there is every reason to make sure the things you don't want running, aren't running, regardless.)



The article you linked... says... you can turn it off.
I guess you can either believe that or not.

You can also google Win 11 built in keylogger and read a few other articles.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win 11 Home ♦♦♦22621.608
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot® [May 2020]
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
    Motherboard
    Asus Pro WS X570-ACE (BIOS 4201)
    Memory
    G.Skill (F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW)
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA RTX 2070 (08G-P4-2171-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC1220P / ALC S1220A
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U3011 30"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1600
    Hard Drives
    2x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB,
    WD 4TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    WD 8TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    DRW-24B1ST CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling 750W Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Cooler Master ATCS 840 Tower
    Cooling
    CM Hyper 212 EVO (push/pull)
    Keyboard
    Ducky DK9008 Shine II Blue LED
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-100
    Internet Speed
    100/100
    Browser
    Firefox (latest)
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Internet Security
    Other Info
    Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media 2.1
  • Operating System
    Windows XP Pro 32bit w/SP3
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot®
    CPU
    AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (OC'd @ 3.2Ghz)
    Motherboard
    ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
    Memory
    TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX (2 x 1GB, DDR2 800)
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA 256-P2-N758-TR GeForce 8600GT SSC
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ViewSonic G90FB Black 19" Professional (CRT)
    Screen Resolution
    up to 2048 x 1536
    Hard Drives
    WD 36GB 10,000rpm Raptor SATA
    Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA
    Lite-On LTR-52246S CD/RW
    Lite-On LH-18A1P CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Generic Beige case, 80mm fans
    Cooling
    ZALMAN 9500A 92mm CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-BT96a
    Keyboard
    Logitech Classic Keybooard 200
    Internet Speed
    100/100
    Browser
    Firefox 3.x ??
    Antivirus
    Symantec (Norton)
    Other Info
    Still assembled, still runs. Haven't turned it on for 13 years?

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?183088-5000-B-E-on-M2N32-SLI-Dlx-Overclocked&p=2891724#post2891724
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