Jeffrey Snover: Microsoft Hasn’t Had a Coherent GUI Strategy Since Petzold



 Jeffrey Snover's blog:

A few years ago I was in a meeting with developers and someone asked a simple question: “What’s the right framework for a new Windows desktop app?”

Dead silence. One person suggested WPF. Another said WinUI 3. A third asked if they should just use Electron. The meeting went sideways and we never did answer the question.

That silence is the story. And the story goes back thirty-plus years.

When a platform can’t answer “how should I build a UI?” in under ten seconds, it has failed its developers. Full stop.

image-3-1536x857.png


The Last Time Windows Had a Clear Answer​

In 1988, Charles Petzold published Programming Windows. 852 pages. Win16 API in C. And for all its bulk, it represented something remarkable: a single, coherent, authoritative answer to how you write a Windows application. In the business, we call that a ‘strategy’.

Win32 that followed was bigger but still coherent. Message loops. Window procedures. GDI. The mental model was a bit whacky, but it was one mental model. Petzold explained it. It was the F=MA of Windows. Simple. Powerful. You learned it. You used it. You were successful.

Clarity is your friend! One OS, one API, one language, one book. There was no committee debating managed-code alternatives. There was just Win32 and Petzold, and it worked. This was Physics not Chemistry (this works but only for this slice of the period table. And only under these pressures. And only within this temperature. And only if the Moon is in the 7th house of Jupiter).

What happened next is a masterclass in how a company with brilliant people and enormous resources can produce a thirty-year boof-a-rama by optimizing for the wrong things. AKA Brillant people doing stupid things.


 Read more:

 
K&R (Kernighan and Ritchie), Fred Brooks, Charles Petzold. That was really all you needed when I started banging my head on the desk writing code.

Edit: Also, I wonder which AI thing he used for that graphic.

View attachment 166714
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Intel NUC12WSHi7
    CPU
    12th Gen Core i7-1260P
    Motherboard
    NUC12WSBi7
    Memory
    64 GB Micron PC4-25600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    on-board Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U3219Q
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 990 PRO 1TB
    Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Antivirus
    Microsoft Defender
Back then, it wasn't a Game of Thrones between the different competing Windows dev frameworks. No one's won, so you have Windows features and apps using different UI's and API's depending on what was popular at the time they were added.

That's why rewriting Windows is a pain for MS. It's internal politics.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
What happened next is a masterclass in how a company with brilliant people and enormous resources can produce a thirty-year boof-a-rama


No surprise there.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win 11 Home ♦♦♦26200.8457 ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦25H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot® [May 2020]
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
    Motherboard
    Asus Pro WS X570-ACE (BIOS 5302)
    Memory
    G.Skill (F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW)
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA RTX 2070 (08G-P4-2171-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC1220P / ALC S1220A
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U3011 30"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1600
    Hard Drives
    2x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB,
    WD 4TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    WD 8TB Black FZBX - SATA III,
    DRW-24B1ST CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling 750W Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Cooler Master ATCS 840 Tower
    Cooling
    CM Hyper 212 EVO (push/pull)
    Keyboard
    Ducky DK9008 Shine II Blue LED
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-100
    Internet Speed
    300/300
    Browser
    Firefox (latest)
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Total Security
    Other Info
    Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media 2.1
  • Operating System
    Windows XP Pro 32bit w/SP3
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Built by Ghot® (not in use)
    CPU
    AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (OC'd @ 3.2Ghz)
    Motherboard
    ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
    Memory
    TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX (2 x 1GB, DDR2 800)
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA 256-P2-N758-TR GeForce 8600GT SSC
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ViewSonic G90FB Black 19" Professional (CRT)
    Screen Resolution
    up to 2048 x 1536
    Hard Drives
    WD 36GB 10,000rpm Raptor SATA
    Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA
    Lite-On LTR-52246S CD/RW
    Lite-On LH-18A1P CD/DVD Burner
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad EPS12V
    Case
    Generic Beige case, 80mm fans
    Cooling
    ZALMAN 9500A 92mm CPU Cooler
    Keyboard
    Logitech Classic Keybooard 200
    Mouse
    Logitech Optical M-BT96a
    Internet Speed
    300/300
    Browser
    Firefox 3.x ??
    Antivirus
    Symantec (Norton)
    Other Info
    Still assembled, still runs. Haven't turned it on for 15 years?
K&R (Kernighan and Ritchie), Fred Brooks, Charles Petzold. That was really all you needed when I started banging my head on the desk writing code.

Edit: Also, I wonder which AI thing he used for that graphic.

View attachment 166714
It is written in the bottom right-hand corner of the full graphic. He used NotebookLM.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel Core i9 13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus ProArt Z790 Creator WiFi - Bios 3107
    Memory
    Corsair Dominator Platinum 64gb 5600MT/s DDR5 Dual Channel
    Graphics Card(s)
    Sapphire NITRO+ AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Vapor-X 24GB
    Sound Card
    External DAC: Cambridge Audio DACMagic200M - Headphone Amp: Topping L50
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Panasonic MX950 Mini LED 55" TV 120hz
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160 120hz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980 Pro 2TB (OS)
    Samsung 980 Pro 1TB (Files)
    Lexar NZ790 4TB
    LaCie d2 Professional 6TB external - USB 3.1
    Seagate Expansion 16TB external - USB 3.2
    Seagate One Touch 18TB external HD - USB 3.0
    PSU
    Corsair RM1200x Shift
    Case
    Corsair RGB Smart Case 5000x (white)
    Cooling
    Corsair iCue H150i Elite Capellix XT
    Keyboard
    Incase Ergonomic USB (Microsoft clone)
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S
    Internet Speed
    Fibre 900/500 Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge Chromium
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Total Security
    Other Info
    AMD Radeon Software & Drivers 26.1.1
    Hasleo Backup Suite
    Dashlane password manager
    Kensington Verimark fingerprint reader
    Logitech Brio 4K webcam
    Orico 10-port powered USB 3.0 hub
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Vivobook X1605VA
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i9-13900H
    Motherboard
    Asus X1605VA bios 309
    Memory
    32GB DDR4-3200 Dual channel
    Graphics card(s)
    *Intel Iris Xᵉ Graphics G7
    Sound Card
    Realtek | Intel SST Bluetooth & USB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    16.0-inch, WUXGA 16:10 aspect ratio, IPS-level Panel
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200 60hz
    Hard Drives
    512GB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 3.0 SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Ergo Trackball
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Total Security
    Other Info
    720p Webcam
    WiFi & USB to ethernet
Snover only discusses the muddled GUI's history of development. Add to all that the decades old platform stuff still in the deep bowels of the OS, no wonder Windows is cracking under the strain.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel Core i9 13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus ProArt Z790 Creator WiFi - Bios 3107
    Memory
    Corsair Dominator Platinum 64gb 5600MT/s DDR5 Dual Channel
    Graphics Card(s)
    Sapphire NITRO+ AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Vapor-X 24GB
    Sound Card
    External DAC: Cambridge Audio DACMagic200M - Headphone Amp: Topping L50
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Panasonic MX950 Mini LED 55" TV 120hz
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160 120hz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980 Pro 2TB (OS)
    Samsung 980 Pro 1TB (Files)
    Lexar NZ790 4TB
    LaCie d2 Professional 6TB external - USB 3.1
    Seagate Expansion 16TB external - USB 3.2
    Seagate One Touch 18TB external HD - USB 3.0
    PSU
    Corsair RM1200x Shift
    Case
    Corsair RGB Smart Case 5000x (white)
    Cooling
    Corsair iCue H150i Elite Capellix XT
    Keyboard
    Incase Ergonomic USB (Microsoft clone)
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S
    Internet Speed
    Fibre 900/500 Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge Chromium
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Total Security
    Other Info
    AMD Radeon Software & Drivers 26.1.1
    Hasleo Backup Suite
    Dashlane password manager
    Kensington Verimark fingerprint reader
    Logitech Brio 4K webcam
    Orico 10-port powered USB 3.0 hub
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Vivobook X1605VA
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i9-13900H
    Motherboard
    Asus X1605VA bios 309
    Memory
    32GB DDR4-3200 Dual channel
    Graphics card(s)
    *Intel Iris Xᵉ Graphics G7
    Sound Card
    Realtek | Intel SST Bluetooth & USB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    16.0-inch, WUXGA 16:10 aspect ratio, IPS-level Panel
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200 60hz
    Hard Drives
    512GB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 3.0 SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Ergo Trackball
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Total Security
    Other Info
    720p Webcam
    WiFi & USB to ethernet
It is written in the bottom right-hand corner of the full graphic. He used NotebookLM.
Oh haha, lookie there. I was too distracted by all the nonsense words.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 25H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Intel NUC12WSHi7
    CPU
    12th Gen Core i7-1260P
    Motherboard
    NUC12WSBi7
    Memory
    64 GB Micron PC4-25600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    on-board Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U3219Q
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 990 PRO 1TB
    Crucial MX500 2 TB
    Antivirus
    Microsoft Defender

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    30Mbit/s up, 500Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
    Antivirus
    What's an antivirus?
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    30Mbit/s up, 500Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
When I read this I am reminded of the old Smokie chant "Alice, who the feck is Alice".

Who the feck are Snover and Petzoid (that sounds like he is named after a painful medical condition).

This post is just wannabee journalism at its finest, basically trying to make out he has some important fundamental earth shattering point but is basically incoherent whinging.

In the end, Windows is not a closed system like Aople, and one could argue stricter guidelines of aesthetics woiuld have led to suppression of thinking and who knows if that was a good or bsd plsn
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro + Win11 Canary VM.
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Zenbook 14
    CPU
    I9 13th gen i9-13900H 2.60 GHZ
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB soldered
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop OLED screen
    Screen Resolution
    2880x1800 touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    1 TB NVME SSD (only weakness is only one slot)
    PSU
    Internal + 65W thunderbolt USB4 charger
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois (UK pint cans - 568 ml) - extra cost.
    Keyboard
    Built in UK keybd
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wireless dongled, wired
    Internet Speed
    900 mbs (ethernet), wifi 6 typical 350-450 mb/s both up and down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0, 2xUSB4 thunderbolt, 1xUsb3 (usb a), 1xUsb-c, hdmi out, 3.5 mm audio out/in combo, ASUS backlit trackpad (inc. switchable number pad)

    Macrium Reflect Home V8
    Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
    Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)
Judging by the results, maybe the only coherent strategy is/has been "Let's leave a few bugs so we can still justify our salaries if it flops" every few months
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 22H2 Pro (X-lite Micro 11 version)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell/ Precision 7680
    CPU
    i7 13850HX (20 cores, 28 threads)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    32GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD/ RTX 1000 ADA
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4K UHD Touchscreen
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2400
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 512GB system drive
    WD Blue 1TB game drive
    PSU
    240W AC adapter, 1800W when docked
    Internet Speed
    1 gigabit symmetrical
    Browser
    Firefox, Librewolf
    Antivirus
    None. Manully configured so nobody except me can change any critical system files. (Don't ask how, it's probably against some rule somewhere)
K&R (Kernighan and Ritchie), Fred Brooks, Charles Petzold. That was really all you needed when I started banging my head on the desk writing code.
My dog-eared K&R and Petzold's Programming Windows still have a sentimental place on my bookshelf.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 16 DA16260
    CPU
    Intel Series 3 Core Ultra X9 388H
    Memory
    64GB LPDDR5x 9600 MT/s
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Arc graphics B390 Panther Lake
    Monitor(s) Displays
    16" 3.2K Tandem OLED Infinity Edge
    Screen Resolution
    3200 x 2000 16:10 236 PPI
    Hard Drives
    1 Terabyte M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD
    Case
    Black Anodized Aluminum
    Cooling
    Vapor Chamber Cooling
    Mouse
    None
    Internet Speed
    942 Mbps Netgear Mesh + 2 Satellites
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge (Chromium)
    Antivirus
    Windows Security (Defender)
    Other Info
    NPU delivering 67 TOPS
    Microsoft 365 subscription
    Microsoft OneDrive 1TB Cloud
    Microsoft Visual Studio
    Microsoft Visual Studio Code
    Microsoft Sysinternals Suite
    Microsoft BitLocker
    Microsoft Copilot
    Dell Support Assist
    Dell Command | Update
    Macrium Reflect X subscription
    1Password Password Manager
    Amazon Kindle for PC
    Lightroom/Photoshop subscription
    Interactive Brokers Trader Workstation
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Microsoft Surface Laptop 7
    CPU
    Snapdragon® X Elite (12 Core) with Hexagon NPU delivering 45 TOPS
    Memory
    32GB LPDDR5x 8448 MT/s
    Graphics card(s)
    Integrated Adreno GPU
    Sound Card
    Omnisonic speakers with Dolby Atmos spatial sound
    Monitor(s) Displays
    13.8″ PixelSense Flow touchscreen 120 Hz 600 NIT
    Screen Resolution
    2304 × 1536 (201 PPI), 3:2 aspect ratio
    Hard Drives
    1 TB PCIe NVMe Gen 4 SSD
    Case
    Black Anodized Aluminum
    Cooling
    Vapor Chamber Cooling
    Mouse
    None
    Internet Speed
    942 Mbps Netgear Mesh + 2 Satellites
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge (Chromium)
    Antivirus
    Windows Security (Defender)
    Other Info
    Microsoft 365 subscription (Office)
    Microsoft OneDrive 1TB Cloud
    Microsoft Visual Studio 2026
    Microsoft Visual Studio Code
    Interactive Brokers Trader Workstation
    Lightroom/Photoshop subscription
    1Password Password Manager
    Microsoft Sysinternals
    Amazon Kindle for PC
    Microsoft BitLocker
    Microsoft Copilot

Latest Support Threads

Back
Top Bottom