Microsoft reflecting on 20 years of Windows Patch Tuesday


  • Staff

 Windows Blogs:

This year marks a very important milestone for the history of Microsoft, the Windows product and for greater computing: 20 years of Patch Tuesday updates. With more than 1.4 billion monthly active Windows devices in service, and billions more devices served along the journey of Windows, our goal is to keep users around the world protected and productive.

In today’s security climate, our work across the company and greater industry to keep this critical ecosystem secure is more important than ever. And while we also ship bug fixes and other new features via continuous innovation, in the end security is job one. Monthly Patch Tuesday updates serve as a vehicle for just that. Created from a 2002 company-wide initiative, Patch Tuesday has become a well-known industry standard, keeping not just Windows but the people, companies and institutions that depend on it protected and productive for 20 years.

In this article, we’ll share a bit on the history of Patch Tuesday and how it continues to evolve through a principle-based approach.

Patch Tuesday’s origin and history​

On January 12, 2002, Bill Gates published a company-wide email announcing the creation of the Trustworthy Computing (TwC) initiative. It represented a paradigm shift, pushing security teams to shift their thinking toward securing features themselves across the breadth of our products. From this important initiative, we consolidated our security update process into a predictable cadence of monthly Patch Tuesday updates. Highlights from the 20-year tenure of Patch Tuesdays below show the ongoing evolution of this critical, well-established practice:

2003–2007​

  • Patch Tuesday updates begin. They introduce supporting patch management processes, including Windows Update and Microsoft Update services.
  • Windows Vista and later Windows 7 are released. Both incorporate enhanced security features, User Account Control (UAC), Windows Defender and improved firewall capabilities.

2008–2012​

  • New out-of-band (OOB) updates address imminent threats like the Conficker worm vulnerability.
  • Security Development Lifecycle expansion provides a robust set of best practices and guidelines for developing secure software.
  • New tools help organizations deploy and assess the status of security updates. These include Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) and the Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer (MBSA).
  • Windows 8 features improve security measures. We welcome Secure Boot, Windows Defender enhancements and further developments in User Account Control (UAC).

2013–2017​

  • Windows 10 is introduced. It represents a fundamental shift towards a “Windows as a service” model. It’s accompanied by the inaugural release of the Windows update history pages, more commonly known as release notes.
  • New security enhancements aim to provide stronger protection against malware, unauthorized access and credential theft. Device Guard, Credential Guard and Windows Hello are developed and released.
  • Windows Update for Business goes live. It allows organizations more control over when and how to deploy Windows updates.
  • The quality and reliability of security updates continue to be the focus of the conversation. “In each new monthly quality update, we add another layer of security, one that tracks emerging and changing trends in malware and viruses” (John Cable, September 20, 2017).
  • We take proactive steps to bolster transparency and align with General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR). Organizations gain the confidence they need to keep devices up to date.

2018–Present​

  • An industry-wide collaboration begins around proactively patching firmware. It follows a public disclosure of Spectre & Meltdown hardware vulnerabilities. Monthly quality updates serve as a tool to expand microcode updates to devices.
  • The use of machine learning optimizes Windows update experiences as proactive measures across Windows updates continue. AI becomes a tool to serve Windows 10 feature updates.
  • Rigor and transparency grow: “The scale and diversity of the Windows ecosystem requires us to take a data-driven approach to quality and to leverage automation for testing, validation and distribution” (Mike Fortin, former CVP, December 10, 2018). The discussion of quality validation efforts via Patch Tuesday includes the Pre-release Validation Program (PVP), Depth Test Passes (DTP), Monthly Test Passes (MTP), the Windows Insider Program (WIP) and the Security Update Validation Program (SUVP).
  • Windows release health dashboard offers everyone a single pane of glass to view known issues across feature and monthly quality updates.
  • In response to 2020’s COVID-19 emerging pandemic, remote work-related tools receive greater focus. We address vulnerabilities in Remote Desktop Services and Microsoft Teams, as well as extend End of Support for certain active versions of Windows.
  • Known Issue Rollbacks (KIRs) help devices quickly return to a productive state if inadvertently impacted by an update issue.
  • In August 2022, the newly announced safeguard holds with Windows Update for Business deployment service help organizations with rolling out updates.
  • That same year, Unified Update Platform (UUP) on premises is available for commercial organizations as a public preview. Integrated with Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) and Configuration Manager, it simplifies quality and feature update deployment. It hits General Availability in 2023.
  • Windows Autopatch emerges as a growing part of the Patch Tuesday experience.
  • Microsoft launches the Secure Future Initiative across Microsoft to pursue our next generation of cybersecurity protection.
Though there are more highlights and lowlights along that journey, Microsoft remains committed to our mission. Our investments help every individual and organization around the world to achieve more, while staying protected and productive with Windows.

Our principle-based Patch Tuesday evolution​

The notions of security and productivity have evolved as drastically as the world of technology. As Brad Smith recently shared in his Nov. 2 blog post A new world of security: Microsoft’s Secure Future Initiative, those efforts are only intensifying. This means great challenges and opportunities for Microsoft’s vision to align on empowering everyone to achieve more through its products, including Windows.

Windows is a critical tool and more important than ever to how folks work and play. We will continue to focus on evolving the update experience. Specifically, we’ve raised the quality of learning, adapting and serving our increasingly diverse customer base around the world, adhering to four principles for the monthly Windows servicing process:
  • Predictability: The Windows monthly release cadence should align predictably to the second Tuesday of every month.
  • Simplicity: Everyone should be able to manage to a simple, regular and consistent patching experience. Doesn’t matter if you’re an individual Windows user or an IT manager overseeing your organization. You shouldn’t need to stop what you’re doing to rigorously test an update before deploying it.
  • Agility: In today’s computing landscape, security threats demand quick responses. We must provide all Windows users with updates quickly without compromising quality or compatibility.
  • Transparency: To simplify the update process for individuals and for businesses large and small, everyone should have access to as much information as they need. You should be able to understand updates in advance. This includes comprehensive yet clear release notes, guides for common servicing tools, access to assistance and a feedback system.
Releasing monthly Windows updates of the highest quality remains critical. Our commitment to improving and evolving Windows patch quality informs efforts and commitment towards quick detection of issues, rapid mitigations, clear and prescriptive communications, and continued learning and improvements. With new hotpatching technologies proving themselves across Azure Fleet and Windows Server Azure Edition, the future for patching is bright as we continue to pursue fast, reliable, secure updates for the best possible update experience. We’re also investing in new AI technology and talent, as well as in leadership and cross-team partnerships, to ensure that we can keep you protected and productive for the next 20 years of Windows.


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20 years of trials and tribulations, more like lol.

Seriously - has it already been that long?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
@johnlgalt

Are you serious? Am I to conclude you don't like being a beta tester for buggy updates? MS needs us guinea pigs!

Just reflect on how much we have had to learn to cope with solving and working around Windows malfunctions over these 20 years, which are not always obvious, like the latest KB5031455, which was apparently not very compatible with Malwarebytes Premium.

Here, and I thought you liked challenges! 😉

At least MS is kind enough to only bork our computers once a month . . .

Regards,
Phil
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS8930 SE
    CPU
    Intel i7-9700K 4700 MHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 8930
    Memory
    32 GB (4 x 8GB SK Hynix DDR4 @1333 MHz) (2666 MHz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6 GB) GDDR6 300 MHz
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell UltraSharp U2518D 25"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    NVMe Intel 1024 TB
    Seagate 2 TB, SATA-III
    PSU
    850 W Gold Standard
    Case
    Dell XPS 8930 Base (Special Edition)
    Cooling
    Air
    Keyboard
    Dell 0G4D2W
    Mouse
    Dell MOCZUL
    Internet Speed
    Download 553 Mbps, Upload 686 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.1.31
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    CPU
    i7-9750H 4.5 GHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Memory
    16 GB (2 x 8GB @ 1333 MHz) DDR4-2666 MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 1650 4 GB GDDR5
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell XPS 15 7590, 15.6" InfinityEdge Anti-Glare, Non-Touch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512 GB M.2 PCle NVMe SK Hynix
    PSU
    130W Power Adapter
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Cooling
    Air
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Keyboard
    Laptop
    Internet Speed
    Download: 400 Mbps, Upload: 203 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.27.0
Lol - you almost got me!

Nah, I revel in trials and tribulations - just calling it like I see it!
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
You can't argue with the truth . . .
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS8930 SE
    CPU
    Intel i7-9700K 4700 MHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 8930
    Memory
    32 GB (4 x 8GB SK Hynix DDR4 @1333 MHz) (2666 MHz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6 GB) GDDR6 300 MHz
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell UltraSharp U2518D 25"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    NVMe Intel 1024 TB
    Seagate 2 TB, SATA-III
    PSU
    850 W Gold Standard
    Case
    Dell XPS 8930 Base (Special Edition)
    Cooling
    Air
    Keyboard
    Dell 0G4D2W
    Mouse
    Dell MOCZUL
    Internet Speed
    Download 553 Mbps, Upload 686 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.1.31
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    CPU
    i7-9750H 4.5 GHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Memory
    16 GB (2 x 8GB @ 1333 MHz) DDR4-2666 MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 1650 4 GB GDDR5
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell XPS 15 7590, 15.6" InfinityEdge Anti-Glare, Non-Touch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512 GB M.2 PCle NVMe SK Hynix
    PSU
    130W Power Adapter
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Cooling
    Air
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Keyboard
    Laptop
    Internet Speed
    Download: 400 Mbps, Upload: 203 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.27.0
Indeed. Though, I will say that standardization concerning the 4 bullet points they list is always a good thing. And, yes, there have been plenty of cases when PT has not affected me negatively in any way whatsoever, neither as a consumer nor as an IT professional over the years (decades, I guess I should now say).

And of all the times it was not quite smooth sailing, the majority were not really big problems, mostly small stuff.

But every now and again - man did they royally b0rk things up....
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
Amen.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS8930 SE
    CPU
    Intel i7-9700K 4700 MHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 8930
    Memory
    32 GB (4 x 8GB SK Hynix DDR4 @1333 MHz) (2666 MHz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6 GB) GDDR6 300 MHz
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell UltraSharp U2518D 25"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    NVMe Intel 1024 TB
    Seagate 2 TB, SATA-III
    PSU
    850 W Gold Standard
    Case
    Dell XPS 8930 Base (Special Edition)
    Cooling
    Air
    Keyboard
    Dell 0G4D2W
    Mouse
    Dell MOCZUL
    Internet Speed
    Download 553 Mbps, Upload 686 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.1.31
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    CPU
    i7-9750H 4.5 GHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Memory
    16 GB (2 x 8GB @ 1333 MHz) DDR4-2666 MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 1650 4 GB GDDR5
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell XPS 15 7590, 15.6" InfinityEdge Anti-Glare, Non-Touch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512 GB M.2 PCle NVMe SK Hynix
    PSU
    130W Power Adapter
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Cooling
    Air
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Keyboard
    Laptop
    Internet Speed
    Download: 400 Mbps, Upload: 203 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.27.0
Update Tues. being on a certain day of the month is about the only predictable thing I've come to expect from MS. Though much better than when it started, even after decades the update process causes havoc for some users. They always blame the update when many times other factors are involved and folks fail to take that into consideration..

Yeah, occasionally we get a crappy update, but folks do not consider MS has a monumental task in dealing with a vast number of hardware and software configurations, incompatible hardware, software interference and user changes whereas Apple (whose updates work smoothly) locks their OS down to use only certain hardware configurations (their own), certain software, ability to update at all past a certain point in hardware age, and disallow users from jacking with their OS.

Have I ever been burned by awindows update? Sure. But one has to look at the big picture before screaming obscenities at MS when an update fails.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 22631.3447
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 7080
    CPU
    i9-10900 10 core 20 threads
    Motherboard
    DELL 0J37VM
    Memory
    32 gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    none-Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Integrated Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    1tb Solidigm m.2 +256gb ssd+512 gb usb m.2 sata
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell Premium
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Internet Speed
    so slow I'm too embarrassed to tell
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 22H2 19045.3930
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 9020
    CPU
    i7-4770
    Memory
    24 gb
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 gb Toshiba BG4 M.2 NVE SSB and 1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell factory
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Internet Speed
    still not telling
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
@glasskuter

Have I ever been burned by awindows update? Sure. But one has to look at the big picture before screaming obscenities at MS when an update fails.

I don't think that either I or @johnlgalt were "screaming obscenities" at MS. It is a fact that some Windows Updates can be buggy and that they can cause a lot of problems for users.

I can't speak for @johnlgalt, but for my part, my comments were meant to be somewhat humorous. Perhaps I failed in that endeavour.

Certainly, Apple has an easier time for the reasons you cite. And certainly, MS has a very challenging job issuing updates that don't bork the many, many computers running various versions of Windows with all manner of configurations and possible partially corrupted Windows installations. Users do all manner of strange things, like running registry cleaners, driver optimizers, and other snake oil programs that infect too many Windows computers.

Have a great weekend.

Regards,
Phil
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS8930 SE
    CPU
    Intel i7-9700K 4700 MHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 8930
    Memory
    32 GB (4 x 8GB SK Hynix DDR4 @1333 MHz) (2666 MHz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6 GB) GDDR6 300 MHz
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell UltraSharp U2518D 25"
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    NVMe Intel 1024 TB
    Seagate 2 TB, SATA-III
    PSU
    850 W Gold Standard
    Case
    Dell XPS 8930 Base (Special Edition)
    Cooling
    Air
    Keyboard
    Dell 0G4D2W
    Mouse
    Dell MOCZUL
    Internet Speed
    Download 553 Mbps, Upload 686 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.1.31
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro Version 23H2 (Build 22631.3527)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    CPU
    i7-9750H 4.5 GHz
    Motherboard
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Memory
    16 GB (2 x 8GB @ 1333 MHz) DDR4-2666 MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 1650 4 GB GDDR5
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell XPS 15 7590, 15.6" InfinityEdge Anti-Glare, Non-Touch
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512 GB M.2 PCle NVMe SK Hynix
    PSU
    130W Power Adapter
    Case
    Dell XPS 15 7590
    Cooling
    Air
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Keyboard
    Laptop
    Internet Speed
    Download: 400 Mbps, Upload: 203 Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender Premium Security, plus Malwarebytes Premium
    Other Info
    BIOS Version 1.27.0
don't think that either I or @johnlgalt were "screaming obscenities" at MS
Never said you were. My statement was a general one as some people blame all their update woes on MS and always have.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 22631.3447
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 7080
    CPU
    i9-10900 10 core 20 threads
    Motherboard
    DELL 0J37VM
    Memory
    32 gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    none-Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Integrated Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    1tb Solidigm m.2 +256gb ssd+512 gb usb m.2 sata
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell Premium
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Internet Speed
    so slow I'm too embarrassed to tell
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 22H2 19045.3930
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Optiplex 9020
    CPU
    i7-4770
    Memory
    24 gb
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Benq 27
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    256 gb Toshiba BG4 M.2 NVE SSB and 1 tb hdd
    PSU
    500w
    Case
    MT
    Cooling
    Dell factory
    Mouse
    Logitech wireless
    Keyboard
    Logitech wired
    Internet Speed
    still not telling
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender+MWB Premium
I still believe the Insider program, although a good idea, has never really helped replace MS inhouse stress testing. Windows Updates these day break more than they fix, and long standing bugs get ignored. Feedback hub etc are more window dressing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
    CPU
    Intel i9 14900KF
    Motherboard
    Asus z790 ProArt Creator WiFi
    Memory
    64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB
    Graphics Card(s)
    MSI 4090 Suprim X
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 x Asus 24". 1 x Asus 32"
    Hard Drives
    Multiple
    PSU
    Corsair 1200HX
    Case
    Corsair 7000D RGB
    Cooling
    Corsair H150I Capellix XT
    Keyboard
    Corsair K70 RGB MK.2
    Mouse
    Corsair M55 RGB Pro

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 10, Linux Mint
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
    Motherboard
    MSI X470 Gaming Plus (MS-7B79)
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD R9 200 series
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 2 TB
    Toshiba 1 TB
    Toshiba 1 TB
@glasskuter



I don't think that either I or @johnlgalt were "screaming obscenities" at MS. It is a fact that some Windows Updates can be buggy and that they can cause a lot of problems for users.

I can't speak for @johnlgalt, but for my part, my comments were meant to be somewhat humorous. Perhaps I failed in that endeavour.

Certainly, Apple has an easier time for the reasons you cite. And certainly, MS has a very challenging job issuing updates that don't bork the many, many computers running various versions of Windows with all manner of configurations and possible partially corrupted Windows installations. Users do all manner of strange things, like running registry cleaners, driver optimizers, and other snake oil programs that infect too many Windows computers.

Have a great weekend.

Regards,
Phil

Never said you were. My statement was a general one as some people blame all their update woes on MS and always have.

To expand upon that, she was saying the same thing I have said in the past - there is no possible way for Microsoft to take into account every single possible configuration, even without folks customizing outside of Microsoft itself - like using explorer patcher, start all is back, or any of those other programs. There is simply too much you can do.

I run a custom install, so that, just after the initial install and reboot, I use sysprep to program the setup to move \Users to a separate physical drive. It's caused minor issues here and there, but for the most part, a Windows update to a new (major) version of the OS accepts my configuration and continues to use it, and doesn't try to move it back to C:\. That is within the purview of Microsoft, as enterprise needs to be able to perform this sort of redirect as needed, so the OS as a whole supports it. Not a lot of people do this, but there are enough of us who do.

But do you think Microsoft has a PC set aside with this sort of setup to test their updates on?

I don't.

The biggest problem is the lack of critical thinking. USer has working PC, takes updates, something stops working, well, it must be the update. But that is why IT exists - end users have no desire to figure these things out, and more often than not, if they customize something, they forget they even applied the customization. Which is exactly what Mama Gk was referring to.

Her words are much more eloquent than mine, but I have said the same thing across every single DMG Windows forums (Vistax64, 7F, 8F, 10F and here). Because it is the truth.

She most definitely was not aiming that at any single person, as I don't either - even when a user is complaining about something breaking from an update.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
My PC never had any major issues from Windows Updates. The only customization program I run is TranslucentTB.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Predator Helios 300 PH314-54-72ZJ
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-11800H
    Motherboard
    TGL
    Memory
    16GB (2x8 GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    RTX 3060 Laptop GPU
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440 @ 165Hz
    Hard Drives
    1TB HDD, 512GB SSD
    Cooling
    Aeroblade 5th Gen 3D fan
    Mouse
    Logitech Lightsync G203
    Internet Speed
    150Mbps up/150Mbps down
    Browser
    Edge and Firefox with uBlock Origin and YouTube enhancing extensions..
    Antivirus
    Windows Security with Core Isolation on
I only have two regular ocurring issues with Windows - and one of them has been there ever since networks became more mainstream back as far as Windows 3.11 - then called Windows for Workgroups. The Lan was based on a dos novell type lan which was a bit unpredictable. Current networking also seems hit and miss -- for example in the latest Canary release (Windows PRO) I just can't get file explorer to display any computer names at all unless I go to add network drive and enter an IP address. Networking has always IMO been a bit problematical with Windows --at least IMO.

Adding other languages sometimes causes a problem rendering bits in one language and bits in another -- OK that's not a major issue on "Insider" releases - but these days nearly every tom dick and harry as some sort of wifi and a home LAN - so why does Windows networking keep throwing up problems.

I've used ARCHLINUX and other distros for years on all sorts of hardware-- updating is simple --- pacman -Syu -- and I've never had a broken system by performing updates even on a rolling release and networking in Linux just works -- and I'm no network guru.

Given the number of devices and variety of hardware that runs windows - updating is relatively painless too so I'm not complaining about that process --it just works until people add all sorts of inappropriate 3rd party software like old security programs from the era of C20 machines not C21 conditions.

But please Ms cant you make Networking "Easy peasy" for home users -- there's something in SMB or whatever that just seems to have broken file explorer's network browsing.

I've tried latest canary build on 3 different sets of hardware as physical machines, done an update, and installed clean -- still not a smidgen of being able to browse other machines. An android phone can use vlc or kodi to see the computer but the computer can't see the phone !! so only 1 way transfer. Other apps such as Filezilla usinf sftp protocol work properly so file explorer IMO seems broken if you still need to use SMB1 which you need for accessing XP / W7 / W10 machines and some older smart TV's / firestick boxes etc.

Other insider builds -- networking running OK. But after any update -- it's always a gamble.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7
I've used ARCHLINUX and other distros for years on all sorts of hardware-- updating is simple --- pacman -Syu -- and I've never had a broken system by performing updates even on a rolling release and networking in Linux just works -- and I'm no network guru.

Ha. I've run Gentoo for a long time, and tested many other distros, and I can tell you - even Linux has networking issues too. They are not as prominent, and you can usually fix them easily enough - but they do exist.

But please Ms cant you make Networking "Easy peasy" for home users -- there's something in SMB or whatever that just seems to have broken file explorer's network browsing.

The problem is that that is what they have been doing, and it hasn't worked.

They need to stop making it 'easy' - aka HomeGroups, aka setting Desktop machines that don't move to still scan for wireless connections, and all sorts of silliness - and just make it work. Forget easy - make it work and that is how it is made easy.

On that note, I've had networking issues crop up more from AV programs and networking 'software' extensions than from Windows itself - but I also never need to use SMB, so that is a huge factor.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
Ha. I've run Gentoo for a long time, and tested many other distros, and I can tell you - even Linux has networking issues too. They are not as prominent, and you can usually fix them easily enough - but they do exist.



The problem is that that is what they have been doing, and it hasn't worked.

They need to stop making it 'easy' - aka HomeGroups, aka setting Desktop machines that don't move to still scan for wireless connections, and all sorts of silliness - and just make it work. Forget easy - make it work and that is how it is made easy.

On that note, I've had networking issues crop up more from AV programs and networking 'software' extensions than from Windows itself - but I also never need to use SMB, so that is a huge factor.
Hi there

OK nothing is 100% "easy" - but I've usually had any issues in Linux fixed quickly enough and haven't had any networking issues for the proverbial "Donkeys years". -- the trouble is I need to access shared NAS drives running Linux from Windows laptops and also remote smart TV's and some other devices that need SMBV1 (SMB1) for connectivity -- and that's where the thing falls apart.

My NAS servers are 2 X linux boxes running SAMBA. These can run without requiring SMB1 (it's just an easy change in the smb.conf file) but then I lose network mapping connectivity via computer name on the laptops via file explorer).

I agree that these editions are not meant to be used as "daily production machines" - but since these features are ikely to be rolled out into standard Windows boxes sooner (rather than later if Ms regards SMB1 as a serious security problem) then it's best to ensure these features actually work for your own environment before they appear in standard Windows and then suddenly get confronted with a whole slew of difficult problems.

As for Linux -- it's been many years back since things like wireless were problems and you had open source developers trying to write drivers for these. It's not 100% perfect but updates etc seem much less convoluted than Windows -- although agin I recognize Windows has a hugely more difficult job in that so many more machines run on it and almost every conceivable bit of hardware has been connected to it.

(Actually my day to day Windows physical machine is running the 180 day freee evaluation version of Windows 2022 LTSC server which I've cludged into a desktop OS -- that runs 100% efficiently without any issues at all -- and can be renewed easily via slmgr rearm.). I generally run the Windows insider releases as VM's testing them on a spare physical laptop (with the correct hardware) if the VM runs OK.).

Note also I have several visitors - including some neighbours grand kids etc -- so if I change the NAS SAMBA to SMBv3 or whatever is the current default then the laptops will need to be altered too to remove SMB1. I really don't want to get into an area where I'm spending time on messing around with other people's laptops. Also young kids can just use Network in file browser to map for the remote computer to access the shared content. Getting them to type an IP address isn't IMO a good idea as this also doesn't give them any clue of the computer they connect to -- a name is more descriptive -- try it with a 6 year old !!!!!!.


cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7
OK nothing is 100% "easy" - but I've usually had any issues in Linux fixed quickly enough and haven't had any networking issues for the proverbial "Donkeys years". -- the trouble is I need to access shared NAS drives running Linux from Windows laptops and also remote smart TV's and some other devices that need SMBV1 (SMB1) for connectivity -- and that's where the thing falls apart.

But Windows and SMB's history of aversion goes back well over 20 years. It's not like this is something that started happening with 23H2, or even just Windows 11.

Every DMG Windows site has someone somewhere complaining because Windows XX won't work correctly with SMB. And, in fact, their reduction of SMB1 use in the Canary shows which way they are going. So, it works for them as they want it to. I mean, you yourself say it goes back to WfW, so that's 30 years.

And yet it's always a new post or thread about the same old problem.

And if I want to get a child working on it, I'm most certainly not going to try to teach it NetBIOS name broadcast - I'm gonna teach him / her "click on this icon" which does all hte background stuff for him / her.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth

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