Multiple Cumulative Updates Not Working since August 2022 with spinning circle

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

Yesterday I decided to reset my machine and wipe out every app to see if a complete reinstall of Windows 11 would fix my issue of spinning circle after updates. It didn't work and I got the infinite spinning circle once again when the system rebooted during the update. To be clear, this is only happening with cumulative updates starting in August 2022 (i.e. KB5016629, KB5016691... till KB5018418 which just came out a couple of days back). It's either related to some driver or some other strict requirement within the UEFI BIOS. With no peripherals connected, the only thing left is the MB and the drivers associated with the MB hardware. They were all working fine until KB5015882 (July 2022) but for some odd reason some Microsoft bug is affecting my system. I've also seen reports of other people having update issues. Granted this problem doesn't affect every machine, it's still causing issues. My MB is a Gigabyte Z390 UD Rev 1.1 and has the latest F10 BIOS. I've run Intel Driver & Support Assistant and verified that all my drivers are up to date. My suspicion is that MS cum updates starting in August 2022 are buggy and are not playing nice with many systems out there. Appreciate a response from anyone out there having similar issues to mine.

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
Yesterday I decided to reset my machine and wipe out every app to see if a complete reinstall of Windows 11 would fix my issue of spinning circle after updates. It didn't work and I got the infinite spinning circle once again when the system rebooted during the update. To be clear, this is only happening with cumulative updates starting in August 2022 (i.e. KB5016629, KB5016691... till KB5018418 which just came out a couple of days back). It's either related to some driver or some other strict requirement within the UEFI BIOS. With no peripherals connected, the only thing left is the MB and the drivers associated with the MB hardware. They were all working fine until KB5015882 (July 2022) but for some odd reason some Microsoft bug is affecting my system. I've also seen reports of other people having update issues. Granted this problem doesn't affect every machine, it's still causing issues. My MB is a Gigabyte Z390 UD Rev 1.1 and has the latest F10 BIOS. I've run Intel Driver & Support Assistant and verified that all my drivers are up to date. My suspcion is that MS cum updates starting in August 2022 are buggy and are not playing nice with many systems out there. Appreciate a response from anyone out there having similar issues to mine.

I chatted with MS support and the only recommendation they provided was to do a clean install by booting from a USB ISO. Apparently, MS is aware of these update issues but doesn't have a fix despite the numerous updates it has released since the start of this problem in August. I can live without these updates and don't want to introduce more instability and issues. If anyone has another suggestion please free to share.

cereberus · Oct 14, 2022

Groan - usual crap advice from MS support. Before you resort to a clean install, try a repair upgrade by downloading latest iso, mount it as a drive, and run setup.exe.

Majority of times, this sorts issue and you just check updates and it updates.

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

cereberus said:
Groan - usual crap advice from MS support. Before you resort to a clean install, try a repair upgrade by downloading latest iso, mount it as a drive, and run setup.exe.

Majority of times, this sorts issue and you just check updates and it updates.

I did that and that also failed. The wheel spins indefinitely regardless of what I try. Not sure if it's a BIOS incompatibility issue specific to my MB or what but it's been frustrating. I even did a complete reset yesterday which essentially wipes out all the apps and then used that as the base installation to update KB5018418 and that too failed with the spinning circle. Check this link out September 2022 Cumulative Security Update fails to install and update. Fifth month in a row for failures. - Microsoft Q&A

Ghot · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
I did that and that also failed. The wheel spins indefinitely regardless of what I try. Not sure if it's a BIOS incompatibility issue specific to my MB or what but it's been frustrating. I even did a complete reset yesterday which essentially wipes out all the apps and then used that as the base installation to update KB5018418 and that too failed with the spinning circle. Check this link out September 2022 Cumulative Security Update fails to install and update. Fifth month in a row for failures. - Microsoft Q&A

Did you try an In-Place upgrade to 22H2, or to 22H1?

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

Ghot said:
Did you try an In-Place upgrade to 22H2, or to 22H1?

I tried both and the same result with spinning circle upon restart. Apparently the security patch that came out in August is integrated into these downloads and I have a feeling it's the source of the problem. The suspect patch I think is KB5012170 that was first released on 8/9/2022. Luckily I've made Macrium backup so I can try numerous fixes but so far they've all failed.

Ghot · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
I tried both and the same result with spinning circle upon restart. Apparently the security patch that came out in August is integrated into these downloads and I have a feeling it's the source of the problem. The suspect patch I think is KB5012170 that was first released on 8/9/2022.

This "might" work, if KB5012170 (Aug. 9th 2022), is actually causing the problem.
Install WAU Manager.

Windows Automatic Updates Manager

WAU Manager - A replacement for the Windows update interface. Get full control of the Windows updates

www.carifred.com

And set it's settings like this...

Get your ISO image from UUP Dump, you can get the one before August 9th.
This one is from July 21, 2022... choose your language, and your version, and
make sure you UN-check all the "Conversion options". Then click on: "Create Download Package".

Select language for Windows 11 (22000.832) amd64

Select language for Windows 11 (22000.832) amd64 on UUP dump. UUP dump lets you download Unified Update Platform files, like Windows Insider updates, directly from Windows Update.

uupdump.net

The download will be a zip file. Extract it to a folder, then click on uup_download_windows.cmd, to start the ISO creation.

Now comes the tricky part.
Start the In-Place Upgrade, and choose the no-updates option, and the keep programs and files option.

As soon as you see the % progress bar at the top left of your screen... unhook your internet completely.
Even if you tell it to skip updates it will do them anyway. This is why we unhook the internet.

Let the In-Place upgrade do it's thing, and as soon as you land on the desktop...
rehook the internet and open WAU Manager and tell it to "Update Windows Now" (lower right).

As soon as it pops up the list of updates, find the KB5012170 update... uncheck it, and highlight it.
Then on the top right click "Hide Selected"
You have to do this fast, before Windows starts looking for updates on it's own.

I'm on Win 11 Home, so I really have no way to block updates.
But I've learned that if I hide the update with WAU Manager, Windows update won't "see" it.

Anyway, this may get you around the problem of the Aug 2022 update.

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

Ghot said:
This "might" work, if KB5012170 (Aug. 9th 2022), is actually causing the problem.
Install WAU Manager.

Windows Automatic Updates Manager

WAU Manager - A replacement for the Windows update interface. Get full control of the Windows updates

www.carifred.com

And set it's settings like this...
View attachment 42292

Get your ISO image from UUP Dump, you can get the one before August 9th.
This one is from July 21, 2022... make sure you UN-check all the "Conversion options"

Select language for Windows 11 (22000.832) amd64

Select language for Windows 11 (22000.832) amd64 on UUP dump. UUP dump lets you download Unified Update Platform files, like Windows Insider updates, directly from Windows Update.

uupdump.net

Now comes the tricky part.
Start the In-Place Upgrade, and choose the no-updates option, and the keep programs and files option.
As soon as you see the % progress bar at the top left of your screen... unhook your internet completely.

Even if you tell it to skip updates it will do them anyway. This is why we unhook the internet.
Let the In-Place upgrade do it's thing, and as soon at you land on the desktop... rehook the internet and
open WAU Manager and tell it to "Update Windows Now" (lower right).

As soon as it pops up the list of updates, find the KB5012170 update... uncheck it, and highlight it.
Then on the top right click "Hide Selected"
You have to do this fast, before Windows starts looking for updates on it's own.

I'm on Win 11 Home, so I really have no way to block updates.
But I've learned that if I hide the update with WAU Manager, Windows update won't "see" it.

Anyway, this may get you around the problem of the Aug 2022 update.

I've hidden problematic Cum Updates with WUSHOWHIDE as a workaround for now. KB5012170 is installed in my system and it's a security patch. I'll live with this for now until they come out with a permanent fix. May be something to do with Secure Boot feature in the BIOS that's interacting with this patch. But I've tried disabling and enabling Secure Boot to no avail. If you look at the boot process in Boot and UEFI - Windows drivers it appears that the hang up is the Windows Boot Manager getting stuck and not going to "Boot to Update OS" .

Ghot · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
I've hidden problematic Cum Updates with WUSHOWHIDE as a workaround for now. KB5012170 is installed in my system and it's a security patch. I'll live with this for now until they come out with a permanent fix. May be something to do with Secure Boot feature in the BIOS that's interacting with this patch. But I've tried disabling and enabling Secure Boot to no avail. If you look at the boot process in Boot and UEFI - Windows drivers it appears that the hang up is the Windows Boot Manager getting stuck and not going to "Boot to Update OS" .

It never fails to amaze me that MS seems to know all the answers, yet their updates still fail.
Granted... in some cases it's user error.

I kind of miss the old days when "we will release no update before it's time" seemed to be the watchword.

Another thing you might want to try, since you use WUSHOWHIDE, is to only install your updates... one at a time.
It takes a bit longer that way, but Windows Update doesn't get.... "confused" when installing the updates.

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

Ghot said:
It never fails to amaze me that MS seems to know all the answers, yet their updates still fail.
Granted... in some cases it's user error.

I kind of miss the old days when "we will release no update before it's time" seemed to be the watchword.

Another thing you might want to try, since you use WUSHOWHIDE, is to only install your updates... one at a time.

I am not a software architect but it appears that the OS with all these bandaid security patches has become cumbersome to manage. What works in one scenario may not work in other and it's dealing with a rats nest of code. I know security is paramount in software design but they need to do a better job of informing consumers of existing issues. All the known issues should be publicly available on a central site and people shouldn't have to waste countless hours troubleshooting. Do that at least until you come up with a permanent fix.

Ghot · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
I am not a software architect but it appears that the OS with all these bandaid security patches has become cumbersome to manage. What works in one scenario may not work in other and it's dealing with a rats nest of code. I know security is paramount in software design but they need to do a better job of informing consumers of existing issues. All the known issues should be publicly available on a central site and people shouldn't have to waste countless hours troubleshooting. Do that at least until you come up with a permanent fix.

I agree. But that was the old days. Back when a can of Campbell's soup cost .59 or .39
Everything started going downhill after Windows XP.

slcidea · Oct 14, 2022

Ghot said:
I agree. But that was the old days. Back when a can of Campbell's soup cost .59 or .39
Everything started going downhill after Windows XP.

The computing world is much more dangerous and vulnerable to attack and so I understand why these updates are important. More of a quality control issue with Microsoft. Not sure what Apple is doing differently, but their product seems to be more stable.

Ghot · Oct 14, 2022

slcidea said:
The computing world is much more dangerous and vulnerable to attack and so I understand why these updates are important. More of a quality control issue with Microsoft. Not sure what Apple is doing differently, but their product seems to be more stable.

Back in Feb. 2021, MS started trying to combine updates into one download and install.
Mainly, they were adding the SSU KB4023057, to the CU.
Most of the time that combination works.

Sometimes I noticed weird things like maybe a .NET update and a CU, and the .NET update finishes and wants to reboot, but the CU, is still installing. That can't be good, even though it MAY work sometimes.

At best WU is just AI, and we all know how easy it is to confuse AI.

strgg · Nov 3, 2022

Having the same problem here, tried everything under the sun but apparently these updates just WILL NOT install. Mine is also on Windows 10 so it is not a bug exclusive to either version.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that the drive is MBR and not GPT? It's also using the Legacy Boot option instead of UEFI.

@slcidea does your install happen to be Legacy as well? Trying to narrow down some common factors between our machines (although I did see you mention UEFI in your post so probably not). Mine is also a Dell if that makes a difference.

slcidea · Nov 3, 2022

strgg said:
Having the same problem here, tried everything under the sun but apparently these updates just WILL NOT install. Mine is also on Windows 10 so it is not a bug exclusive to either version.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that the drive is MBR and not GPT? It's also using the Legacy Boot option instead of UEFI.

@slcidea does your install happen to be Legacy as well? Trying to narrow down some common factors between our machines (although I did see you mention UEFI in your post so probably not). Mine is also a Dell if that makes a difference.

For Windows 11 you should convert it to GPT and there's utility to do that from MBR. My drive is set up for GPT.

slcidea · Nov 3, 2022

slcidea said:
For Windows 11 you should convert it to GPT and there's utility to do that from MBR. My drive is set up for GPT.

I have a feeling it's a chipset driver specific to some motherboards that is not up to date and failing regardless of Win 10 or 11. When you do a clean install new drivers are automatically installed by Windows and so the boot issue goes away. I tried so many experiments on this particular PC including taking my original Win 10 image and performing one of the latest updates and it too failed with the endless spinning circle. Which is why I think it's hardware specific and likely has to do with some chipset driver that the update doesn't like. Quite frankly these updates are buggy and if it goes through on the majority of the machines then the fix is not urgent. Waited since August and none of the cumulative updates that have come out has fixed this problem. When I contacted MS the agent told me to do a complete clean install.

strgg · Nov 3, 2022

slcidea said:
I have a feeling it's a chipset driver specific to some motherboards that is not up to date and failing regardless of Win 10 or 11. When you do a clean install new drivers are automatically installed by Windows and so the boot issue goes away.

If that is the case could it be possible to uninstall the drivers so Windows reinstalls the defaults?

slcidea · Nov 3, 2022

strgg said:
If that is the case could it be possible to uninstall the drivers so Windows reinstalls the defaults?

Try updating them. If it's a Dell then you can download it from their site. You can't completely uninstall chipset or system driver because the device manager will automatically reinstall them upon hardware detection. It's a catch 22.

strgg · Nov 4, 2022

I did update everything, including the BIOS (which was originally from like 2016) but doesn't seem to have made a difference.

Does that reinstall behavior still happen in safe mode as well? Wonder if I could remove them in safe mode and then reboot.

slcidea · Nov 4, 2022

strgg said:
I did update everything, including the BIOS (which was originally from like 2016) but doesn't seem to have made a difference.

Does that reinstall behavior still happen in safe mode as well? Wonder if I could remove them in safe mode and then reboot.

When the update fails, and Windows tries to recover I was not able to boot the system in Safe Mode. Only thing that worked to get the PC running again is to do a restore from the restore point. It's a bizarre problem but I am relentless in trying to find the cause. LOL.