New mobo/ddr5 memory not as fast as I expected

rzn6jw · Jun 16, 2024

I was running with:
Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro WIFI
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
64G DDR4 3200 (XMP in BIOS)

I rebuilt the PC to:
Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
48G DDR5 7000 (XMP in BIOS)
SecureBoot is disabled
Integrated graphics is disabled

My games and C: drive are each stored on a separate M.2 Samsung 970 EVOs, which has not changed. On this mobo there are 4 M.2 slots, 2 SB and 2 CPU. I have both SSDs in the CPU slots and a ASUS TUF RTX 4070 GAMING OC in the PCI x16 slot. My DDR5 memory are in slots A2 and B2 and the online Gigabyte board memory specifications support specific part number of the DDR5 7000 sticks I have.

Booting now takes 39 - 50 seconds vs 12 seconds with the old board. Games and programs take longer to load than before, 5 seconds for Firefox and 10-15 seconds for a Steam game. It's almost like whenever I select something, the PC 'thinks about it' before executing.

I thought all the hype about DDR5 and AM5 being faster means things load faster. What am I missing? I also thought about seeing if there was anything on a Gigabyte forum but apparently there's no such thing anymore.

Should I be looking into AMD EXPO memory instead of the XMP, although both are supported?

Ghot · Jun 16, 2024

rzn6jw said:
I rebuilt the PC to:
Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
48G DDR5 7000 (XMP in BIOS)
SecureBoot is disabled
Integrated graphics is disabled

How did you come up with 48GB of RAM? [I see they're selling 24GB sticks these days]
It should be 16 or 32 or 64... etc.

RAM works best when the total amount is a power of 2.
It should also be in dual channel for maximum speed.

Lastly, the higher the RAM frequency, the higher (slower) the timings need to be to keep it stable.
At any given frequency, you'll see different timings
The lower (faster) the timings, the more expensive it will be.

So you could buy two different sets of 7000Mhz RAM, and the one with the lower timings will be faster.

For example... this is my 3200Mhz RAM. It comes with three different timings.
14... 16... 18 CAS Latency. The ones with the CL of 14 are fastest, even though they're all 3200Mhz.

This above screenshot is from CPU-Z. Get the ZIP version, that's the portable version...

CPU-Z | Softwares | CPUID

CPU-Z for Windows® x86/x64 is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system : Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels. Mainboard and chipset. Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD). Real time...

www.cpuid.com

antspants · Jun 16, 2024

Ghot said:
How did you come up with 48GB of RAM?

3 x 16 sticks?

antspants · Jun 16, 2024

Pushing the Boundaries of DDR5 – CORSAIR® Launches New 48GB, 96GB and 192GB Memory Kits | Corsair Gaming, Inc.

MILPITAS, Calif. --(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 21, 2023-- CORSAIR® (NASDAQ: CRSR), a world leader in enthusiast components for gamers, creators, and PC builders, today announced massive new capacities for its DDR5 memory kits, thanks to new 24GB and 48GB UDIMM modules.

ir.corsair.com

CMH48GX5M2B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 48GB (2x24GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	21-Feb	$194.99
CMH48GX5M2B5600C40	CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 48GB (2x24GB) DDR5-5600 (PC5-44800) C40	21-Feb	$204.99
CMH96GX5M2B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	21-Feb	$389.99
CMH96GX5M2B5600C40	CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5-5600 (PC5-44800) C40	21-Feb	$399.99
CMK48GX5M2B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 48GB (2x24GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	21-Feb	$184.99
CMK48GX5M2B5600C40	CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 48GB (2x24GB) DDR5-5600 (PC5-44800) C40	21-Feb	$194.99
CMK96GX5M2B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	21-Feb	$379.99
CMK96GX5M2B5600C40	CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5 5600 (PC5-44800) C40	21-Feb	$389.99
CMH192GX5M4B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 192GB (4x48GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	6-Mar	TBD
CMH192GX5M4B5200C38	CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 192GB (4x48GB) DDR5-5200 (PC5-41600) C38	6-Mar	TBD

Marcus Vinicus · Jun 16, 2024

What is the make and module part number of your DDR5 ram?

Is it one of these (from the Gigabyte support page for your motherboard)?

bobkn · Jun 16, 2024

I doubt that DDR4/DDR5 has much to do with software loading times.

I can't explain the lags.

I've never had a desktop PC that booted to a log screen in 12 seconds. my Asus and current Gigabyte bords seem to so a lot of testing at startup. The initial DDR5 setup on my Gigabyte board took quite a while (minutes, maybe), and that is rerun occasionally. Scared me until I figured it out.

The PC I have that gives the quickest boot to the lockscreen is my slowest computer, an old laptop.

PerpetualCycle · Jun 17, 2024

Memory performance does not depend on it's size being a power of 2. The OP probably has a 2x24GB kit. They are quite common now.

DDR5 takes longer to train than DDR4. OP probably has it set train every boot. This is not necessary.

Timings are not slower the faster the MT/s. Some need to be larger because their units are clock cycles, while the timings converted to nanoseconds don't change much for the primary timings. Quit a few tertiary timings can remain the same (in clock ticks), making them faster with higher MT/s.

I don't have as nny idea why it would take so long to open a program. Memory should not have that kind of affect on performance if it is stable. I would expect it is some other issue. DDR5 primary timings are larger than corresponding DDR4, but that should be made up by twice the MT/s.

PerpetualCycle · Jun 17, 2024

I see you have 2x24 7000 MT/s and Gigabyte says your memory is supported. But the online QVL list on your motherboard's support page only has 48 GB ram up to 6800 MT/s, not 7000.

With an Intel processor, it is hard to get anything above 6800 MT/s stable with two sticks and 4 slots. You need a 2 DIMM slot motherboard to go higher. Expect it is the same for AMD.

Have you run tests on your memory for stability?

Marcus Vinicus · Jun 17, 2024

PerpetualCycle said:
Have you run tests on your memory for stability?

That is what I was also thinking. Run something like Memtest.

Helmut · Jun 17, 2024

Your DDR5 memory modules have nothing to do with your symptoms of slow boot times, loading of Games and Programs.

That has to do with what you have let run when starting up, things like looking for updates, updating applications and so on.
That can be a long list of Applications, Web browsers, Game clients that need to be configured from their settings.

You mention the Steam game client and that is just one good example of what needs to be configured carefully from its settings. It can start when your PC starts, update itself and games you have on the client, notifications, extra promotions, etc, potentially a very long list.

The same thing applies to all other game clients, Web Browsers, applications etc. You may have 100-200 settings to attend to.

None of this is addressed in either of your recent threads on the same subject, yet the older thread is marked as solved.

antspants · Jun 17, 2024

Helmut said:
Your DDR5 memory modules have nothing to do with your symptoms of slow boot times, loading of Games and Programs.

That has to do with what you have let run when starting up, things like looking for updates, updating applications and so on.
That can be a long list of Applications, Web browsers, Game clients that need to be configured from their settings.

You mention the Steam game client and that is just one good example of what needs to be configured carefully from its settings. It can start when your PC starts, update itself and games you have on the client, notifications, extra promotions, etc, potentially a very long list.

The same thing applies to all other game clients, Web Browsers, applications etc. You may have 100-200 settings to attend to.

None of this is addressed in either of your recent threads on the same subject, yet the older thread is marked as solved.

I am more than positive that none of which you mention would have much affect on the PC setup in the OP’s specs.
The PC is more than capable of handling these things *In my opinion.

Adding, that if the OP upgraded their PC without doing a fresh install, I would consider that lacking in better judgment.

rzn6jw · Jun 17, 2024

PerpetualCycle said:
DDR5 takes longer to train than DDR4. OP probably has it set train every boot. This is not necessary.

I don't really know what 'train' is or even how to set memory to 'train'.

I can see the lag in applications starting if the primary and internal graphics are both enabled in the BIOS. That was my original issue because I didn't realize that the 7800X3D had integrated Radon graphics. I figured once the integrated graphics was disabled in the BIOS things would 'speed' up but it really hasn't.

Are we sure that I shouldn't switch to AMD EXPO instead of XMP? I'm using Corsair Vengence DDR5 7000, 2x24G, part number

CMH48GX5M2B7000C36

rzn6jw · Jun 17, 2024

OK, found out what 'training' DDR5 memory is all about. That may be the cause of the long boot time because, apparently, the PC is 'training' the memory during each POST. But according to the things I've read, after initial training, it shouldn't be doing it each reboot. Is there a parameter to turn off in the BIOS?

PerpetualCycle · Jun 17, 2024

rzn6jw said:
OK, found out what 'training' DDR5 memory is all about. That may be the cause of the long boot time because, apparently, the PC is 'training' the memory during each POST. But according to the things I've read, after initial training, it shouldn't be doing it each reboot. Is there a parameter to turn off in the BIOS?

I don't know on Gigabyte. I will take a look to see if your board has a BIOS manual in a little while.

PerpetualCycle · Jun 17, 2024

rzn6jw said:
I don't really know what 'train' is or even how to set memory to 'train'.

I can see the lag in applications starting if the primary and internal graphics are both enabled in the BIOS. That was my original issue because I didn't realize that the 7800X3D had integrated Radon graphics. I figured once the integrated graphics was disabled in the BIOS things would 'speed' up but it really hasn't.

Are we sure that I shouldn't switch to AMD EXPO instead of XMP? I'm using Corsair Vengence DDR5 7000, 2x24G, part number

CMH48GX5M2B7000C36

No, I don't think so. That model says it is XMP and does not mention EXPO support. Have you checked that it is actually running at 7000? (task manager memory tab)

PerpetualCycle · Jun 17, 2024

PerpetualCycle said:
I don't know on Gigabyte. I will take a look to see if your board has a BIOS manual in a little while.

Enable "Memory Context Restore" in BIOS and see if this speeds up your boot.

also, to check for Windows consistency, run the following commands in a administrator enabled command window:

"sfc /scannow" (run a second time if there was an error detected

"dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth"

bobkn · Jun 17, 2024

rzn6jw said:
OK, found out what 'training' DDR5 memory is all about. That may be the cause of the long boot time because, apparently, the PC is 'training' the memory during each POST. But according to the things I've read, after initial training, it shouldn't be doing it each reboot. Is there a parameter to turn off in the BIOS?

That would be verified by the memory status LED staying lit for a long time.

In the downloadable BIOS settings guide:

Memory Context Restore
Allows you to configure the memory context restore mode. When enabled, DRAM re-retraining is avoided
when possible and the POST latency is minimized.

rzn6jw · Jun 17, 2024

X670 specs for the board list AMD EXPO memory but only up to 6000.
sfc /scannow 'found corrupted files and successfully repaired them'.
dism ran to a successful completion.

I will now try the BIOS memory context restore and get back here.

Marcus Vinicus · Jun 17, 2024

Re DDR5 memory training Crucial have this helpful explanation online.

DDR5 systems may require training

A small number of DDR5 systems and motherboards require a period of "training" newly installed memory to work with the system and allow access to the UEFI, or otherwise to complete the system's power-on self-test (POST).

www.crucial.com

Also, I agree with @antspants that it is definitely preferable when doing a major update of core components on a PC to also do a clean reinstall of Windows.

rzn6jw · Jun 17, 2024

wmic memorychip get speed shows 7000 on both sticks.
In the BIOS I found under:
UMC/DDR/
DDR Training Runtime Reduction set to enable (options of Disable or Auto in which case if memory is OC setting will go to Disable)
DFE Read Training - Auto
RX2D_Training - Manual
Tx2D_Training - manual

According to the Crucial info (above) a mobo may reduce the memory training after the initial boot unless something changes like hardware or a BIOS change but this board seems to train every boot so I'm comfused. Please excuse my ignorance but this is my first time working with DDR5 memory so bear with me if I don't understand.

New mobo/ddr5 memory not as fast as I expected

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