Strange behavior with rapid delta restore!

Rita5 · Jan 4, 2024

Hi, Happy New Year Wishes 2024

After creating an incremental image and restoring it using the Delta Restore feature, I noticed that my Google account and other Google services on firefox browser, such as YouTube and gmail, were logged out even though I made sure to log in when creating the incremental image

Also, Google's behavior and notifications do not work well when you log in again, and must delete the browser's cookies and cache and log in again.

Can anyone explain this behavior?

Ghot · Jan 4, 2024

In science the word Delta means change.
So Rapid Delta Restore only deals with "changes" to the image. That's why it's so fast.

Personally... I don't do differential or incremental backups, and when I restore I never do Rapid Delta Restore.

I only make full backups, and I only restore full backups.

cereberus · Jan 4, 2024

When you create backups, temporary files are not backed up. It may be related to this.

I am inclined to think the issue is related to Fast Startup rather than Rapid Delta Restore as such - Fast Startup is related to hibernation. Macrium Reflect does not back these up.

Try turning off Fast Startup, login in to sevices and repeat making incremental images and restore with RDR. If that does not work, login again and repeat restore turning off RDR.

antspants · Jan 4, 2024

Log in again, problem solved. I would take a guess that it’s security related with the sites you were logged into. A backup made on the 01/01/2024 restored on the 05/01/2024 (for example), could possibly set of a trigger and cause a session end due to discrepancies in the dates. I am only guessing and assuming here.
I know it doesn’t take much these days for a session to be ended with some sites due to their securities. Especially Google owned sites.

antspants · Jan 4, 2024

What is it you use to protect your cookies, Rita? I use “Cookie Manager” for Firefox.

glasskuter · Jan 4, 2024

Ghot said:
I only make full backups, and I only restore full backups

I second this method. I trust this method. The only differential or incremental backup I've ever made was as a test for someone here on the forum. For my needs, I've never seen the need when I can do a straightforward full system image in a handful of minutes. I make it a habit to close everything, run Ccleaner which removes browser history and unnecessary files, then make my images. Regarding web pages after a restore, I can say any cookiess for sites I have excluded from being removed by CCleaner remain intact after a restore....but I do not use Chrome nor login to any Google services..

Rita5 · Jan 4, 2024

Ghot said:
In science the word Delta means change.
So Rapid Delta Restore only deals with "changes" to the image. That's why it's so fast.

Personally... I don't do differential or incremental backups, and when I restore I never do Rapid Delta Restore.

I only make full backups, and I only restore full backups.

I have a Nvme disk with only one partition, so it has the system installed and all my files and some games with a storage size exceeding 400 GB, so restoring the full image every time will be very long and cumbersome. I also purchased the program for this feature specifically.

cereberus said:
When you create backups, temporary files are not backed up. It may be related to this.

I am inclined to think the issue is related to Fast Startup rather than Rapid Delta Restore as such - Fast Startup is related to hibernation. Macrium Reflect does not back these up.

Try turning off Fast Startup, login in to sevices and repeat making incremental images and restore with RDR. If that does not work, login again and repeat restore turning off RDR.

This is a good point that I did not know, but what is the connection between temporary files and browser cookies? Does Firefox share cookies with temporary files?
The problem only occurs with Google and its services and not with other sites, so I assume that the relationship between them will affect all sites and not just Google?
Also I'm disabling fast startup and hibernation because I remember having some problems when I didn't disable them
As I mentioned above, I have more than 400 GB, and I think that disabling Delta, if I understand well, will default to restoring the full image?

antspants said:
Log in again, problem solved.

I already mentioned in the second paragraph of my topic that I log in again without requesting two-factor authentication, but this is another problem that I pointed out, which is that Google notifications for Gmail do not work as they did before the restoration. This problem is solved only by deleting the browser’s cookies and cache, re-logging again and allowing Notifications again

could possibly set of a trigger and cause a session end due to discrepancies in the dates. I am only guessing and assuming here

This seems the most reasonable explanation

antspants said:
What is it you use to protect your cookies, Rita? I use “Cookie Manager” for Firefox.

I do not use cookie protection

glasskuter said:
I make it a habit to close everything

Click to expand...

Close everything? Could this mean that my creation of the incremental image with Firefox running and the Internet running might be the culprit here?

antspants · Jan 4, 2024

Rita5 said:
Close everything? Could this mean that my creation of the incremental image with Firefox running and the Internet running might be the culprit here?

I would doubt it, most backup software tells you you can continue working whilst backing up, as long as you understand that from word “Backup” obviously everything you do after that point is ignored. I doubt that because Firefox is open it would have any cause or effect with being logged out after a restore.

Having said that, I do exactly what @glasskuter does, but after the word “Backup” or rather, after the backup has started and I know the cut off point for changes has initiated, I start using my PC again whilst the backup is running. I’ll stand by my date assumption, that Google probably sniffs some discrepancies with the cookie dates and timestamps and says nup, not gonna happen, log in again.

hsehestedt · Jan 4, 2024

The reason that you were logged out of services is not because of any change locally. It is because the remote site logged you off after inactivity and / or a break in the original connection.

As an example, say that you connected to Google. Now unplug the network cable. Wait a little while. Plug it back in. You will find that you need to reestablish a connection because the previous connection has now been invalidated.

As for the issue of Googles behavior and notifications, I'm not certain about that. I guess that I would need to better understand what the actual issue is in that regard.

Rita5 · Jan 4, 2024

It seems to me now that the problem is Google connections and session privileges, but I need to test if Firefox is involved
I just noticed that the default Microsoft account login in Edge browser and other services like store is not signed out after the restore so I will test the Google account login on Edge

cereberus · Jan 5, 2024

glasskuter said:
I second this method. I trust this method. The only differential or incremental backup I've ever made was as a test for someone here on the forum. For my needs, I've never seen the need when I can do a straightforward full system image in a handful of minutes. I make it a habit to close everything, run Ccleaner which removes browser history and unnecessary files, then make my images. Regarding web pages after a restore, I can say any cookiess for sites I have excluded from being removed by CCleaner remain intact after a restore....but I do not use Chrome nor login to any Google services..

No disrespect but how does telling OP that you (and others) only do full backups help the OP?

Rapid Delta Restore has nothing to do with incremental images.

We need to diagnose what is causing the OP's issue!

Rita5 · Jan 5, 2024

cereberus said:
Rapid Delta Restore has nothing to do with incremental images.

How is that? Incremental images are referred to as delta?

Rita5 · Jan 5, 2024

I just did some tests and reproduced the problem in all browsers Firefox, Chrome and Edge, Also, notifications cannot be restored in all of the browsers mentioned
Assume here that the way Delta Restore works excludes some things when restore, that are necessary for the cookies to function as they were before the restore.

Bree · Jan 5, 2024

Rita5 said:
How is that? Incremental images are referred to as delta?

'Delta' means 'differences'. An Incremental is the differences since the last image, be that a Full, or an Incremental.

A Delta Restore looks at the existing data on the disk, and restores only the differences found in the image. That's why it can be Rapid, no need to restore data that's already on the disk.

...the only dependency for RDR is that the target file system contains a formatted NTFS file system that is the same file system as was originally imaged. When the restore starts the disk image is loaded, again this can be an image taken at any time, and the target NTFS file system structures are analyzed for differences. All the NTFS file system structures are restored to the target disk and any that do not exist or have been modified on the target disk cause the data records for each NTFS file or object to be restored as well.

Macrium Rapid Delta Features

Macrium Software - the creators of Macrium Reflect backup, imaging and cloning software.

blog.macrium.com

Rita5 · Jan 5, 2024

I would also like to point out that the problem is specific only to Google. Everything else works exactly as it did before the restore

Rita5 · Jan 5, 2024

Bree said:
'Delta' means 'differences'. An Incremental is the differences since the last image, be that a Full, or an Incremental.

A Delta Restore looks at the existing data on the disk, and restores only the differences found in the image. That's why it can be Rapid, no need to restore data that's already on the disk.

Macrium Rapid Delta Features

Macrium Software - the creators of Macrium Reflect backup, imaging and cloning software.

blog.macrium.com

Perhaps I do not understand well, as I am a complete beginner, but the picture shows that the incremental form is a delta, and the differential form shows that it is only differential, not a delta.

Am I getting it wrong here? Feel free to correct me

Bree · Jan 5, 2024

Rita5 said:
Assume here that the way Delta Restore works excludes some things when restore, that are necessary for the cookies to function as they were before the restore.

RDR knows nothing about the high level meaning of the data it is restoring. It just looks at the low level ntfs data structures and puts back any that have changed since the image was made.

There is no switch to turn off RDR, but you can force Reflect to do a full restore. Just modify the size of the partition being restored, make it fractionally smaller. As Macrium say in the link I gave above: "Note: RDR is not available when shrinking partitions during a restore."

I suspect a full restore would have exactly the same result. I think you are looking at the wrong end of this process. It's making the image where things may be excluded.

Bree · Jan 5, 2024

Rita5 said:
Perhaps I do not understand well, as I am a complete beginner, but the picture shows that the incremental form is a delta, and the differential form shows that it is only differential, not a delta.

Am I getting it wrong here? Feel free to correct me

No, you're not wrong. But 'delta' as used here just means that Incrementals only contain the changes since the last image was made (Full, Diff, or Inc).

When restoring 'delta' refers to the difference between what's in the image and what's now on the disk. Only if they differ is data actually written to the disk. That's unrelated to whether the image is a data set including Incrementals, RDR applies equally when restoring just a single Full image.

Rita5 · Jan 5, 2024

Bree said:
No, you're not wrong. But 'delta' as used here just means that Incrementals only contain the changes since the last image was made (Full, Diff, or Inc).

When restoring 'delta' refers to the difference between what's in the image and what's now on the disk. Only if they differ is data actually written to the disk. That's unrelated to whether the image is a data set including Incrementals, RDR applies equally when restoring just a single Full image.

Well, thank you for this explanation. Now I understand how delta works like I did not understand it before

But why does it affect Google and its services? This is what I want to know

antspants · Jan 5, 2024

Rita5 said:
But why does it affect Google and its services? This is what I want to know

I would still suggest it’s because Google is extremely security conscious.

Strange behavior with rapid delta restore!

Active member

My Computer

Well-known member

My Computers

Well-known member

My Computer

Like a rolling drone.

My Computers

Like a rolling drone.

My Computers

aka Mama Glass

My Computers

Active member

My Computer

Like a rolling drone.

My Computers

Well-known member

My Computers

Active member

My Computer

Well-known member

My Computer

Active member

My Computer

Active member

My Computer

Well-known member

My Computers

Active member

My Computer

Active member

My Computer

Well-known member

My Computers

Well-known member

My Computers

Active member

My Computer

Like a rolling drone.

My Computers

Similar threads