Solved TPM/PTT confusion

gmemore

Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?
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I am currently looking into a new build using:
ASUS Z590 M Plus board
i5 10600k or 11600k
According to the ASUS website, this board has a TPM header, meaning it needs a Module added.

I have always built my own computers, but this technology has never been on my radar... My current system is pretty old...

This is where I am confused. I'm sure this is basic knowledge to most on here, which is why I'm asking, but it's just an area that I think average or 'knows enough to be dangerous' users like me don't understand until they actually have some experience with it.
And an ASUS 14-1 TPM, if you can find one, is another $48 today:mad:


I am reading about PTT and TPM. If there is no TPM module installed (There is a header with no chip) is there a PTT option in the UEFI (BIOS), or is this something that is available only if the board comes with the chip onboard, or, if the board only has a header, a chip is installed ?
Is there a standard or will it be board specific?
Will PTT be the equivalent to TPM 2.0

A cliff notes explanation is fine, or point me to a website. I really appreciate any direction on this
Thanks
 
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geneo

You've got to pick up every stitch
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PTT (and hence Intel firmware TPM 2.0) is in Z590 chipset. So you will have it if the board BIOS exposes it, which I can't imagine it won't. if you look at the BIOS manual on the support page for that board you will find under PCH Configuration" (PCH = Z590 chipset) , PCH-FW with an option to use the chipset firmware TPM, or a separate plug-in one.

Screenshot 2021-07-05 133632.png


 

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gmemore

Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?
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PTT (and hence Intel firmware TPM 2.0) is in Z590 chipset. So you will have it if the board BIOS exposes it, which I can't imagine it won.t.
Thank you. This is what I thought I understood, but the presence of the header on the board caused me to question. I saw your full reply just now and now I understand it better. Thanks again.
 

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    Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB /3200 MHz
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    Nvidia GT1030
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    Dell S3221QS
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    3840 x 2160
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    Samsung 980NVME 500GB (Windows 11Pro), EVO870 500GB (Windows 10Pro),EVO870 1TB (Data), EVO870 500GB (Virtual Machines)
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    BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
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Steve C

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I am currently looking into a new build using:
ASUS Z590 M Plus board
i5 10600k or 11600k
According to the ASUS website, this board has a TPM header, meaning it needs a Module added.

I have always built my own computers, but this technology has never been on my radar... My current system is pretty old...

This is where I am confused. I'm sure this is basic knowledge to most on here, which is why I'm asking, but it's just an area that I think average or 'knows enough to be dangerous' users like me don't understand until they actually have some experience with it.
And an ASUS 14-1 TPM, if you can find one, is another $48 today:mad:


I am reading about PTT and TPM. If there is no TPM module installed (There is a header with no chip) is there a PTT option in the UEFI (BIOS), or is this something that is available only if the board comes with the chip onboard, or, if the board only has a header, a chip is installed ?
Is there a standard or will it be board specific?
Will PTT be the equivalent to TPM 2.0

A cliff notes explanation is fine, or point me to a website. I really appreciate any direction on this
Thanks
I'm looking to build a new PC too. I've now decided to wait a few months until Windows 11 is released to see what windows 11 certified motherboard are available. At least they should be supplied with TPM support and prices may have reduced by then post covid.

Note your chosen Asus board has a firmware TPM option so you don't need the hardware module.
1625547265103.png
 

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bobkn

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I'm looking to build a new PC too. I've now decided to wait a few months until Windows 11 is released to see what windows 11 certified motherboard are available. At least they should be supplied with TPM support and prices may have reduced by then post covid.

(snip)
Are you prepared to believe Asus? Asus Windows 11 compatible motherboards
 

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Steve C

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Stigg

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I have always built my own computers, but this technology has never been on my radar... My current system is pretty old.
Hi @gmemore
I've always built mine too, but it never crossed my mind to look for TPM headers on my motherboards.
As it turns out, the most recent motherboard I purchased has one. But there is another problem.
The GC-TPM2.0_S TPM module for my GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G is not available anywhere, and from my research, GIGABYTE have no intention of making it available.

So, the lesson for anyone intending on buying a new motherboard is ensure that your motherboard has a TPM header and ensure that TPM module stock is available. I would suggest buying the TPM module when you buy the motherboard to be safe.
 

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    Intel Core i9-10900X
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    GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G
    Memory
    Corsair 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) CMW64GX4M4C3000C15 Vengeance RGB Pro 3000Mhz DDR4
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    GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1660 Super Mini ITX 6 GB OC
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    SK Hynix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) HMA82GS6CJR8N-VK 16 GB DDR4-2666 DDR4 SDRAM
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Steve C

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Hi @gmemore
I've always built mine too, but it never crossed my mind to look for TPM headers on my motherboards.
As it turns out, the most recent motherboard I purchased has one. But there is another problem.
The GC-TPM2.0_S TPM module for my GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G is not available anywhere, and from my research, GIGABYTE have no intention of making it available.

So, the lesson for anyone intending in buying a new motherboard is ensure that your motherboard has a TPM header and ensure that TPM module stock is available. I would suggest buying the TPM module when you buy the motherboard to be safe.
True, but most new motherboards have a firmware TPM option
 

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    8 GB
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Stigg

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True, but most new motherboards have a firmware TPM option
That is right, Steve.

------------

An off topic question if I may. Notice the empty tables in your reply above. That was caused by copying and pasting text.
I've never seen that happen in a forum before.

How do I copy and paste text into a post without it creating a table every time?
 

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  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro
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    Stigg's Build
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-10900X
    Motherboard
    GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G
    Memory
    Corsair 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) CMW64GX4M4C3000C15 Vengeance RGB Pro 3000Mhz DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1660 Super Mini ITX 6 GB OC
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC1220
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung 27" FHD LED FreeSync Gaming Monitor (LS27F350FHEXXY)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 Pro Series 1TB M.2 2280 NVMe SSD
    Western Digital Red Pro WD8003FFBX-68B9AN0 8 TB, 7200 RPM, SATA-III
    Western Digital Red Pro WD8003FFBX-68B9AN0 8 TB, 7200 RPM, SATA-III
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    Corsair HX1200 1200W 80 Plus Platinum
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    Fractal Design Define 7 Black Solid Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Chromax Black
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    N/A
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    Logitech BRIO 4k Ultra HD USB-C Webcam
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro
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    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Zephyrus M GM501GS
    CPU
    Core i7-8750H
    Motherboard
    Zephyrus M GM501GS
    Memory
    SK Hynix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) HMA82GS6CJR8N-VK 16 GB DDR4-2666 DDR4 SDRAM
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC294
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AU Optronics B156HAN07.1 [15.6" LCD]
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung MZVKW512HMJP-00000 512 GB, PCI-E 3.0 x4
    Samsung SSD 860 QVO 4TB 4 TB, SATA-III
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    Razer DeathAdder Essential
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    PC/AT Enhanced PS2 Keyboard (101/102-Key)
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bobkn

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Hi @gmemore
I've always built mine too, but it never crossed my mind to look for TPM headers on my motherboards.
As it turns out, the most recent motherboard I purchased has one. But there is another problem.
The GC-TPM2.0_S TPM module for my GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G is not available anywhere, and from my research, GIGABYTE have no intention of making it available.

So, the lesson for anyone intending on buying a new motherboard is ensure that your motherboard has a TPM header and ensure that TPM module stock is available. I would suggest buying the TPM module when you buy the motherboard to be safe.
According to the manual, the GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G includes PTT (platform trust technology), which is Intel's firmware TPM. It doesn't explicitly state that it's TPM 2.0. Simple enough to check: turn it on in the BIOS settings, and then run tpm.msc from a Windows command line.

Firmware TPMs seem to be the way the business is going. I'd have to study them more before I dared to use them with Bitlocker. (I'd worry about not being able to decrypt data if something happened to the motherboard.)

PTT is active on my Lenovo laptop. About the only thing I know about it is that my Windows 10 PIN is kept in it. (Clearing the PTT loses the PIN.)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • Operating System
    Windows 11 22000.194
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 5950X
    Motherboard
    Asus Tuf X570 Plus Gaming
    Memory
    32GB Gskill DDR4 2800
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon RX 6900 XT
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3940 X 2160
    Hard Drives
    WB Black SN850 1TB M.2 NVME SSD
    Seagate Iron Wolf 8TB
    PSU
    Seasonic SS-1250XM
    Case
    Corsair Obsidian 750D
    Cooling
    Corsair H100i RGB Pro XT
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 10 19044.1151
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 3900X
    Motherboard
    MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung LU28R550UQNXZA
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160
    Hard Drives
    Sabrent 1 TB PCI-E 4.0 X4 NVME M.2
    4 GB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G1+
    Case
    Phanteks ENTHOO Pro M
    Cooling
    Corsair H100i RGB Pro XT
    Internet Speed
    400 Mbps

gmemore

Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?
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An off topic question if I may. Notice the empty tables in your reply above. That was caused by copying and pasting text.
I've never seen that happen in a forum before.

How do I copy and paste text into a post without it creating a table every time?
Hi Stigg
Don't copy/paste. Click on "quote" in the lower right corner of the post. When it appears in your reply, click inside the quote and find the cursor. You can then edit out (backspace) everything but what you want to address in your reply, as I did with your reply above. Then click out of the quote box to type your reply.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • Operating System
    Windows 10 21H1, Windows 11
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    roll yer own
    CPU
    i5 10600k
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime Z590M-Plus
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB /3200 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GT1030
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell S3221QS
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980NVME 500GB (Windows 11Pro), EVO870 500GB (Windows 10Pro),EVO870 1TB (Data), EVO870 500GB (Virtual Machines)
    Case
    Thermaltake Versa H18
    Cooling
    BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
    Keyboard
    Logi K800
    Mouse
    Performance MX Master 2S
    Internet Speed
    Like the bird chiseling onto a tablet on the Flintstones
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 21H1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy 360 Convertible 15.6"
    CPU
    Ryzen5-4500U
    Memory
    I6 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1080
    Hard Drives
    Crucial 1TB NVME

gmemore

Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?
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I've always built mine too, but it never crossed my mind to look for TPM headers on my motherboards.
As it turns out, the most recent motherboard I purchased has one. But there is another problem.
The GC-TPM2.0_S TPM module for my GIGABYTE X299X DESIGNARE 10G is not available anywhere, and from my research, GIGABYTE have no intention of making it available.

This is how I came to question PTT (firmware) or Discrete (header and add-on). My current board is an H87 ASUS board. It does have a header, but it does not appear to have an option for PTT. I tried changing several settings to see if it would become visible but no.
It wouldn't matter if it did because it is 4th gen Intel, probably not ever going to qualify, no matter how 'generous' MS gets in relaxing the cutoff. I tend to drive a PC like I do my car - 'till the wheels fall off' (current rig replaced a 10 yr old nforce 730i). My current rig runs just fine for me right now, but testing 11 has me GASsing for new hardware, so I needed clarification on built in TPM

So, the lesson for anyone intending on buying a new motherboard is ensure that your motherboard has a TPM header and ensure that TPM module stock is available. I would suggest buying the TPM module when you buy the motherboard to be safe.
When the news of Windows 11 first came out, TPM modules were practically a dime a dozen on amazon. When the leaked build came out, I searched again - they vanished. I saw one yesterday that "fits" my current board, can't even remember where now, probably 'Joe's PC pick-a-part online emporium' or some such, and it was $48 + shipping. $10-15 is 'let's play with this and see what happens'. $50-60 is a ram upgrade or CPU cooler for a new build that I need anyway.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me on this.

I first joined on Seven forums and have tagged along for the education ever since. My questions are usually answered before I even knew I had them. The people on here are truly great and the sharing of your knowledge is invaluable!

BTW, I pulled the trigger on the new setup yesterday. Now, let's see if the Prime truck gets here before Tropical Storm Elsa...🌪️
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • Operating System
    Windows 10 21H1, Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    roll yer own
    CPU
    i5 10600k
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime Z590M-Plus
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB /3200 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GT1030
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell S3221QS
    Screen Resolution
    3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980NVME 500GB (Windows 11Pro), EVO870 500GB (Windows 10Pro),EVO870 1TB (Data), EVO870 500GB (Virtual Machines)
    Case
    Thermaltake Versa H18
    Cooling
    BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
    Keyboard
    Logi K800
    Mouse
    Performance MX Master 2S
    Internet Speed
    Like the bird chiseling onto a tablet on the Flintstones
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 21H1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy 360 Convertible 15.6"
    CPU
    Ryzen5-4500U
    Memory
    I6 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1080
    Hard Drives
    Crucial 1TB NVME

geneo

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This is how I came to question PTT (firmware) or Discrete (header and add-on). My current board is an H87 ASUS board. It does have a header, but it does not appear to have an option for PTT. I tried changing several settings to see if it would become visible but no.
It wouldn't matter if it did because it is 4th gen Intel, probably not ever going to qualify, no matter how 'generous' MS gets in relaxing the
I believe Intel introduced PTT in the chipsets in the 7th generation (Z170, H170 etc. chipsets). This is why you don't see the option in your H87 MB BIOS. So practically any 7th gen or newer chipsetswill have PTT. Whether it is 2.0, I don't know. Maybe 7th gen doesn't have 2.0 and that is why they have qualified only 8th gen and newer processors.
 

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bobkn

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I believe Intel introduced PTT in the chipsets in the 7th generation (Z170, H170 etc. chipsets). This is why you don't see the option in your H87 MB BIOS. So practically any 7th gen or newer chipsetswill have PTT. Whether it is 2.0, I don't know. Maybe 7th gen doesn't have 2.0 and that is why they have qualified only 8th gen and newer processors.

If this is to be believed, PTT was introduced in 2013 on some 4th generation CPUs and chipsets. Intel PTT My Lenovo laptop, with a Gen 6 CPU, has PTT. It presents TPM version 2.0.
 
Last edited:

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geneo

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Yes, but I think it wasn't across pretty much all SKU until Gen 7. My wife's 7th Gene is TPM 2.0, so I reckon all, if not most, PTT TPM are 2.0.
 

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jimbo45

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I've an HP laptop with Gen 6 intel CPU -- from around 2016 -- TPM V2 is enableable within the Bios.
 

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bobkn

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I've an HP laptop with Gen 6 intel CPU -- from around 2016 -- TPM V2 is enableable within the Bios.
Like me (post 14), except mine is from Lenovo.

PTT was enabled by default. My Windows 10 PIN is stored there.
 

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I have a Z590 Asus board and the TPM/PTT is included with the motherboard. My wife has a Z270 Prime A and I had to add the chip on the board and it works flawlessly. 😊 I still think that this is a cash grab but hey, a lot of are still surprised that we can install Windows 10 on 10-12 year old computers.
 

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johnlgalt

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How does it make it a cash grab when Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with the manufacture and distribution of these TPM AIBs?
 

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