True or False - HYPER-V to be discontinued in 2029 ?

jimbo45 · Sep 6, 2024

Hi folks
I saw this on the TestGorilla site :

START OF QUOTE :

What is Hyper V?

Hyper V is a virtualization machine developed by Microsoft. It’s a type 1 hypervisor, meaning that it runs directly on the physical hardware, and that’s why it takes the place of the host OS. In contrast to Hyper V, VirtualBox and WMware’s Workstation both operate on a type 2 hypervisor, as a computer program – they’re not able to host hardware and resources as they need to go through operating systems.

Even though the virtualization platform was popular for Windows users, Microsoft is discontinuing Hyper V as of 2029. There still hasn’t been an announcement about any replacement for the program.

END OF QUOTE:

Is this true or just vapourware -- if true it seems not a lot of point in allocating time and resources for using a product destined to be discontinued in a few years time.
I know many big companies are moving over (or have already moved over) to containerisation and Kubernetes instead of running full blown VM's -- but there's still a huge market for VM's for individuals and smaller commercial users.

2029 might still seem a bit of a way off but this probably means (if true) that Ms is already winding down development - and probably will just supply security fixes.

Cheers
jimbo

antspants · Sep 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
Is this true or just vapourware -- if true…

Hyper-V Server 2019 - Microsoft Lifecycle

Hyper-V Server 2019 follows the Fixed Lifecycle Policy.

learn.microsoft.com

Possibly one day, a replacement. Perhaps Hyper-V will fade away to be fully replaced by Containers.

Containers on Windows documentation

documentation for running containers on Windows.

learn.microsoft.com

But like @Bree says below, I can’t see any news for Hyper-V being removed from Windows server editions..

Bree · Sep 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
Hi folks
I saw this on the TestGorilla site :

START OF QUOTE :
...Even though the virtualization platform was popular for Windows users, Microsoft is discontinuing Hyper V as of 2029. There still hasn’t been an announcement about any replacement for the program.
END OF QUOTE:

Is this true or just vapourware....

Typical journo misinterpretation of the source they are quoting from. It actually says:

"We’ve got Microsoft MVP Eric Siron for a conversation about the end of Hyper-V Server (the free SKU of Hyper-V). Again, to confirm, we’re talking about the free SKU of Hyper-V. The normal paid SKUs – the well-known role within Windows Server – will be remaining.....

...Hyper-V Server (Not to be confused with Hyper-V) is a free edition of Hyper-V that contains only the needed roles to run clustered virtual machine workloads using Windows Server. The solution comes with no licensing rights, and it has recently been announced that Hyper-V Server 2019 will be the last version of this SKU of Windows Server."

The only thing that ends in 2029 is support for the free SKU of Hyper-V Server 2019. Hyper-V remains alive and well and an updated version is included in the latest Windows Server 2025 (preview).

Microsoft said:
The latest release of Hyper-V Server provides new and enhanced features that can help you deliver the scale and performance needs of your mission-critical workloads.

Windows Server 2025 | Microsoft Evaluation Center

Windows Server 2025 delivers next-generation security improvements, and hybrid cloud capabilities into a modernized and future ready platform.

www.microsoft.com

And all this talk is specifically about Hyper-V for server editions. It has no direct bearing on Hyper-V in desktop Windows Pro editions.

jimbo45 · Sep 6, 2024

Bree said:
Typical journo misinterpretation of the source they are quoting from. It actually says:

"We’ve got Microsoft MVP Eric Siron for a conversation about the end of Hyper-V Server (the free SKU of Hyper-V). Again, to confirm, we’re talking about the free SKU of Hyper-V. The normal paid SKUs – the well-known role within Windows Server – will be remaining.....

...Hyper-V Server (Not to be confused with Hyper-V) is a free edition of Hyper-V that contains only the needed roles to run clustered virtual machine workloads using Windows Server. The solution comes with no licensing rights, and it has recently been announced that Hyper-V Server 2019 will be the last version of this SKU of Windows Server."

The only thing that ends in 2029 is support for the free SKU of Hyper-V Server 2019. Hyper-V remains alive and well and an updated version is included in the latest Windows Server 2025 (preview).

Windows Server 2025 | Microsoft Evaluation Center

Windows Server 2025 delivers next-generation security improvements, and hybrid cloud capabilities into a modernized and future ready platform.

www.microsoft.com

And all this talk is specifically about Hyper-V for server editions. It has no direct bearing on Hyper-V in desktop Windows Pro editions.

Thanks --there's a huge lot of junk, blant untruths and obfucscation on the net these days with very "loose" journalism. Don't they teavch in journalism school the importance of VERIFY before writing any more.

Cheers
jimbo

antspants · Sep 6, 2024

That's also why I posted the first link. They don’t mention Windows other than to say “Containers” might be the new groove..

jimbo45 said:
Don't they teavch in journalism school the importance of VERIFY before writing any more.

My son says it’s more like they just don’t employ proper editors anymore.
He edits a political magazine and said he whales down on writers that don’t fact check. It’s not his job to do so, his job is to verify.

pparks1 · Sep 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
Thanks --there's a huge lot of junk, blant untruths and obfucscation on the net these days with very "loose" journalism. Don't they teavch in journalism school the importance of VERIFY before writing any more.

Cheers
jimbo

No, because these are all online tech journalists and the need is to be the 1st to break any story because that generates the most clicks and ad revenue to your website. Even bad publicity is free publicity.

i love the stories to where there is absolutely no new content. For example, "Fire Chief provides details on cause of fire at 123 main street". You read the story and it says.

A fire broke out at the home at 123 main street Friday and the cause of the fire was previously unknown. Today, Fire Chief Smith held a press conference on the fire at 123 main street and stated, "the cause of the fire is unknown at this time". We will post more information as soon as it becomes available to us.

cereberus · Sep 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
Thanks --there's a huge lot of junk, blant untruths and obfucscation on the net these days with very "loose" journalism. Don't they teavch in journalism school the importance of VERIFY before writing any more.

Cheers
jimbo

Journalism 101 - never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Hopachi · Sep 25, 2024

Bit late here but I've seen some panic articles like these on other sites before, ah the play of words.

+1 @Bree
Indeed.
I've read some of the extra lines on that site to figure out it was 'Server' edition (standalone I guess) and not the 'regular' one in consumer Windows.

And it also doesn't seem logical to get rid of the one feature in Windows that lies at the core of the matter; baked into security, wsl, sandbox, etc.

BrianInEngland · Sep 25, 2024

A lot of 'journalism' is AI bots trawling the Internet for something close to what they want to publish, then publishing it without fact checking it all first.

The way of the future sadly

martyfelker · Oct 6, 2024

IS there a waly to run Hylper-V in QEMU/KVM or VMware VM?

SlicEnDicE · Oct 6, 2024

martyfelker said:
IS there a waly to run Hylper-V in QEMU/KVM or VMware VM?

Yes, you can do nested virtualization in KVM/QEMU, which let's you enable Hyper-V in your VM. Same applies for VMWare. Have to edit the config files. I don't recall how and what, but I've done it on VMWare a long time ago and came by an article, a few days ago, that specifically talked about KVM/QEMU nested virtualization. Think they even mentioned it on their own site too...

Same applies for nested virtualization in Hyper-V. It can be done and I've tested this too.

jimbo45 · Oct 6, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
Yes, you can do nested virtualization in KVM/QEMU, which let's you enable Hyper-V in your VM. Same applies for VMWare. Have to edit the config files. I don't recall how and what, but I've done it on VMWare a long time ago and came by an article, a few days ago, that specifically talked about KVM/QEMU nested virtualization. Think they even mentioned it on their own site too...

Same applies for nested virtualization in Hyper-V. It can be done and I've tested this too.

It's not that quite so simple as Hyper-V somehow knows when it's running in a Virtual machine. I think there is a way of bollixing it so Hyper-V thinks it's on a native machine - but how to do it I've no idea.

If you've got more than one physical CPU in your system ( two or more physical processors not a single processor with a zillion and one cores) and a separate GPU by pass-thru you might be able to do it .

Most of the Google articles usually deal with HYPER-V as a Host and then running Nested VM's from the HYPER-V system on the Host.

What we are looking for is the other way around i.e Linux Host running a Windows VM with Hyper-V installed on it and then running within that VM another VM under the Hyper-V of the ist Windows system be it Linux or another Windows system. I.E the 2nd level VM sees the Windows HYPER-V VM system as its host and not the real host.

I.E Host (LINUX KVM/QEMU) ->Windows 11 VM with Hyper-V->any VM Windows or Linux.

Some people have got Host (Windows 11 with Hyper-V) ->Windows VM/Linux VM ->2nd level VM working but it's not 100% solid and often unclear if the Windows VM is using HYPER-V itself to create the 2nd level VM.

Cheers
jimbo

SlicEnDicE · Oct 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
It's not that quite so simple as Hyper-V somehow knows when it's running in a Virtual machine. I think there is a way of bollixing it so Hyper-V thinks it's on a native machine - but how to do it I've no idea.

It was very straight forward, just a few lines into the config file.

And yes, Hyper-V host as Type 1 hypervisor, let me do a second level Type 1 VM. No problem.

I've tested this and it worked. Just don't recall where I found the relevant info and what the exact lines were that had to be added.

jimbo45 · Oct 6, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
It was very straight forward, just a few lines into the config file.

And yes, Hyper-V host as Type 1 hypervisor, let me do a second level Type 1 VM. No problem.

I've tested this and it worked. Just don't recall where I found the relevant info and what the exact lines were that had to be added.

I'll have a go with this later as a test -- I've got a machine as well with a dual CPU so I can also try the physical pass thru thing. Easy enough to create a W11 instance -- no need to activate etc for these types of tests. For the W11systems I'll just take the default install options, add nothing except enable HYPER-V. If the VM created with the VM with Hyper-V boots (2nd level VM) and I can execute anything -- even file explorer then that's a pass. If system boots and then immediately hangs or doesn't boot then fail.

So 2 tests should be enough. 3 if 1 or 2 fail.

Test 1 W11 Host with hyper-V->W11 VM with Hyper-V->Any VM.
Test 2 Linux with QVM/QEMU->W11 VM with Hyper-V->Any VM
Test 3 Linux pass thru CPU and GPU - KVM/QEMU->W11VMw with Hyper-V->AnyVM (only if 1,or 2 fail)

Test 3 needs to be done with a Linux Host as there at least not AFAIK a decent way of passing thru hardware of this type to a VM created with HYPER-V.

Cheers
jimbo

cereberus · Oct 6, 2024

jimbo45 said:
Thanks --there's a huge lot of junk, blant untruths and obfucscation on the net these days with very "loose" journalism. Don't they teavch in journalism school the importance of VERIFY before writing any more.

Cheers
jimbo

Huh - the modern journalists motto is "Do not let the truth get in the way of tbe truth."

Hyper-V will be around longer than me LOL.

jimbo45 · Oct 6, 2024

cereberus said:
Huh - the modern journalists motto is "Do not let the truth get in the way of tbe truth."

Hyper-V will be around longer than me LOL.

I thought this had already been settled ages ago!!!!

You might have though some suggestions though in getting a 2nd level VM on Hyper-V to work -- I.E

Host (W11 with HYPER-V)->W11 VM with Hyper-V->2nd level VM (any windows or anything even a basic WinPE)

Cheers
jimbo

Bree · Oct 6, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
Hyper-V host as Type 1 hypervisor, let me do a second level Type 1 VM. No problem.

I've tested this and it worked. Just don't recall where I found the relevant info and what the exact lines were that had to be added.

You can enable nested virtualisation for a particular Hyper-V guest VM with a Powershell command.

Powershell:

Set-VMProcessor -VMName <VMName> -ExposeVirtualizationExtensions $true

Run Hyper-V in a Virtual Machine with Nested Virtualization

Learn about how to use nested virtualization to run Hyper-V in a virtual machine to emulate configurations that normally require multiple hosts.

learn.microsoft.com

SlicEnDicE · Oct 6, 2024

jimbo45 · Oct 6, 2024

Hi folks
@Bree
@SlicEnDicE
@martyfelker

Hi folks = it's fine from Opensuse Tumbleweed, kernel 6.11.x with KDE

1) Host Linux - Distro Opensuse Tumbleweed KDE with KVM/QEMU as type 1 Hypervisor no passthru - just Virtio for Disks and network on VM .
2) VM W11 IOT Enterprise running with KVM/QEMU on Linux Host. Just enable Hyper-V from "Windows features". Reboot guest.
3) Hyper-V Virtual machine manager -- create New Virtual Machine --- OK

Networking a bit bonkers -- but Hey it's Windows isn't it. That's another issue that can usually be fixed. Principle it works straight OOTB from Opensuse tumbleweed without having to do any thing else on the HOST or even on the Guest. If you want to nest deeper well that's just bonkers) then ????.