Update on Windows 11 minimum system requirements


  • Staff
UPDATE 8/27: Update on Windows 11 minimum system requirements and PC Health Check app

Windows Insiders,

Today we’re releasing our first Insider build for Windows 11, and we’re looking forward to the insight that comes from you installing and using on a variety of your PCs. Last week’s introduction of Windows 11 signaled the first step on our journey to empower people with the next generation of Windows. With a new generation comes an opportunity to adapt software and hardware to keep pace with people’s computing needs today and in the future.

The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust. Below you will find changes we are making based on that feedback, including ensuring we have the ability for Windows Insiders to install Windows 11 on 7th generation processors to give us more data about performance and security, updating our PC Health check app to provide more clarity, and committing to more technical detail on the principles behind our decisions. With Windows 11, we are focused on increasing security, improving reliability, and ensuring compatibility. This is what drives our decisions.

Why new Windows 11 minimum system requirements

Windows 11 is designed and built as a complete set of experiences, unlocking the full power of the PC our customers have come to rely on, including in areas like security, reliability, compatibility, video conferencing, multitasking, playing, creating, building, learning and more. We need a minimum system requirement that enables us to adapt software and hardware to keep pace with people’s expectations, needs and harness the true value and power of the PC to deliver the best experiences, now and in the future. To do that, we were guided by the following principles:
  1. Security. Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.
  2. Reliability. Devices upgraded to Windows 11 will be in a supported and reliable state. By choosing CPUs that have adopted the new Windows Driver model and are supported by our OEM and silicon partners who are achieving a 99.8% crash free experience.
  3. Compatibility. Windows 11 is designed to be compatible with the apps you use. It has the fundamentals of >1GHz, 2-core processors, 4GB memory, and 64GB of storage, aligning with our minimum system requirements for Office and Microsoft Teams.
Using the principles above, we are confident that devices running on Intel 8th generation processors and AMD Zen 2 as well as Qualcomm 7 and 8 Series will meet our principles around security and reliability and minimum system requirements for Windows 11. As we release to Windows Insiders and partner with our OEMs, we will test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet our principles. We’re committed to sharing updates with you on the results of our testing over time, as well as sharing additional technical blogs.

PC Health Check App

See if PC meets Requirements for Windows 11 with PC Health Check app

With these minimum system requirements in mind, the PC Health Check app was intended to help people check if their current Windows 10 PC could upgrade to Windows 11. Based on the feedback so far, we acknowledge that it was not fully prepared to share the level of detail or accuracy you expected from us on why a Windows 10 PC doesn’t meet upgrade requirements. We are temporarily removing the app so that our teams can address the feedback. We will get it back online in preparation for general availability this fall. In the meantime, you can visit our minimum system requirements page here to learn more.

First build of Windows 11 available to Windows Insiders today

Today, we’re releasing the first preview build of Windows 11 to the Windows Insider community. In support of the Windows 11 system requirements, we’ve set the bar for previewing in our Windows Insider Program to match the minimum system requirements for Windows 11, with the exception for TPM 2.0 and CPU family/model. By providing preview builds to the diverse systems in our Windows Insider Program, we will learn how Windows 11 performs across CPU models more comprehensively, informing any adjustments we should make to our minimum system requirements in the future. We look forward to the product feedback and learnings as it’s an important step to prepare Windows 11 for general availability this year – thank you to the Windows Insider community for your excitement and feedback thus far!

UPDATED 6/28 at 10:24am PDT.


Source: Update on Windows 11 minimum system requirements | Windows Insider Blog
 

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It's not about degradation. It's not about performance, either.

It's 100% about security (and smoke and mirrors to make it seem like Microsoft is 'really doing something extraordinary' by limiting CPUs with a past history of vulnerabilities).

Problem is, though, that if people tried to take the same approach to software, well, Microsoft would quickly lose it's $2 Trillion USD status - because their software is, arguably, even more vulnerable (over the long run) than these CPUs they are marking as excluded.

But remember - these games are not for you, the end user. They are for the investors and the large scale buyers and their high end cloud consumers.

You (and me,) they could really not care any less for. Regardless of what they may say otherwise.

If you were a business owner, a sole proprietor, you might think twice before bumping a customer you have that fills an order for $20 to accommodate a customer that comes into fill a $2000 order. Corps aren't so nice - the higher paying job almost always gets the deal first. That is what Capitalism has become today - not the search for a little bit of a profit as a RoI but the search for a profit by cutting corners, shoddy workmanship and practices, and the like.

And I'm not trying to turn this into a political discussion - it's the flat out truth. If you think for one second that Microsoft implements anything because the end users want it you're sadly mistaken. They only implement it if it has a positive reaction with their investors. Make no mistake - Microsoft is not a 'mom and pop' store fulfilling orders from $20 to $2000. They are a full-on corporation, with investors, earnings reports, margins and things like that. All the other stuff about how well it will help the users blah blah blah is nothing but marketing.

I am just saying , hopefully they will se enough insiders downloading and running Windows 11 using 7th, 6th and older gen cpu's wihout issue that they aren't really going to have a choice but to lower the cpu standards.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 23481.1000
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    self built
    CPU
    Intel i5-6500 3.5 Ghz quad core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-170-HD3
    Memory
    Corsair 16GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung Curved 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    8 Drives total: One 1TB M.2 SSD (for OS) Three internal Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD's , 4 Western Digital External removable drives , 3 @ 1TB each and 1 8TB
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender
I am just saying , hopefully they will se enough insiders downloading and running Windows 11 using 7th, 6th and older gen cpu's wihout issue that they aren't really going to have a choice but to lower the cpu standards.

Do you think that Microsoft would do that rather than forcing the Gen 6 and 7 owners back to Windows 10, when the release version of 11 appears?

I'm not competent to comment on the hardware security feature differences between the generations of Intel CPUs. Maybe MS is being arbitrary rather than using good engineering practices, but that feels unlikely.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Amd Threadripper 7970X
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D
    Memory
    128GB (4 X 32) Kingston DDR5 5200 (RDIMM)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC
    Sound Card
    none (USB to speakers), Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips 27E1N8900 OLED
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @ 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Crucial T700 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    WD 4TB Blue SATA SSD
    Seagate 18TB IronWolf Pro
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1600 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo XL
    Cooling
    Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360, with 3 Phanteks T30 fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel I9-13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus RoG Strix Z690-E
    Memory
    64GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 3090 ti
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB
    8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
    4TB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1300 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo
    Cooling
    Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
Do you think that Microsoft would do that rather than forcing the Gen 6 and 7 owners back to Windows 10, when the release version of 11 appears?

I'm not competent to comment on the hardware security feature differences between the generations of Intel CPUs. Maybe MS is being arbitrary rather than using good engineering practices, but that feels unlikely.

I am no business guru but lets face it , if you own a company with a decent IT department that knows what they are doing , there is no reason for a company to drop a wad of cash on a new OS. There are companies STILL using Windows XP! Until recently the company I work for was still using Windows 7.
Microsoft is rolling the dice on this one and they will fail miserably if they are pitching to the business sector on this, sure they will make some money , but not as much as they are counting on. Businesses know how flighty Microsoft is with their OS's , why pay for something when you have something that already works? and an IT department that mitigates attacks and keeps things patched. Most of these companies run proprietary software that was made for the OS they are running , now they have to pay to upgrade that software to a new OS AND pay for the new OS itself? and they know full well Microsoft NEVER sticks to anything and a few years from now will only be pitching something else.

If I was a business owner, I certainly wouldn't want to spend thousands or millions on a new OS every few years, that's absurd .

Windows 10 was SUPPOSED to be the last OS ..... remember? Now here we go again.

I don't think this is geared so much to the business sector or even you and I for that matter, this is more for the fat cats on Wall Street, they need to do something to boost the price of their stock for the share holders.

But, If they don't lower the standards, another thing to consider is that micro chips are in VERY short supply, vendors cannot meet demand because of COVID shutdowns , their inventory's have been depleted and it takes about 1 month to produce 1 functional micro chip wafer. Intel and micro chip makers in Taiwan and Asia do not see any kind of recovery or catching up for at least a year or more just because of how thier order structures work.
Even if people WANTED to purchase new computers or cpu's , the supply is just not there, not now anyway.
So , the question is, how much is everyone willing to pay for a new pc or cpu? The chip situation has already driven the price of vehicles up over 50% ..... That $1,500 pc you bought a few years ago will now cost over $2,500 or more.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 23481.1000
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    self built
    CPU
    Intel i5-6500 3.5 Ghz quad core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-170-HD3
    Memory
    Corsair 16GB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung Curved 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    8 Drives total: One 1TB M.2 SSD (for OS) Three internal Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD's , 4 Western Digital External removable drives , 3 @ 1TB each and 1 8TB
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Bitdefender
I am no business guru but lets face it , if you own a company with a decent IT department that knows what they are doing , there is no reason for a company to drop a wad of cash on a new OS. There are companies STILL using Windows XP! Until recently the company I work for was still using Windows 7.
Microsoft is rolling the dice on this one and they will fail miserably if they are pitching to the business sector on this, sure they will make some money , but not as much as they are counting on. Businesses know how flighty Microsoft is with their OS's , why pay for something when you have something that already works? and an IT department that mitigates attacks and keeps things patched. Most of these companies run proprietary software that was made for the OS they are running , now they have to pay to upgrade that software to a new OS AND pay for the new OS itself? and they know full well Microsoft NEVER sticks to anything and a few years from now will only be pitching something else.

If I was a business owner, I certainly wouldn't want to spend thousands or millions on a new OS every few years, that's absurd .

Windows 10 was SUPPOSED to be the last OS ..... remember? Now here we go again.OS

I am no business guru but lets face it , if you own a company with a decent IT department that knows what they are doing , there is no reason for a company to drop a wad of cash on a new OS. There are companies STILL using Windows XP! Until recently the company I work for was still using Windows 7.
Microsoft is rolling the dice on this one and they will fail miserably if they are pitching to the business sector on this, sure they will make some money , but not as much as they are counting on. Businesses know how flighty Microsoft is with their OS's , why pay for something when you have something that already works? and an IT department that mitigates attacks and keeps things patched. Most of these companies run proprietary software that was made for the OS they are running , now they have to pay to upgrade that software to a new OS AND pay for the new OS itself? and they know full well Microsoft NEVER sticks to anything and a few years from now will only be pitching something else.

If I was a business owner, I certainly wouldn't want to spend thousands or millions on a new OS every few years, that's absurd .

Windows 10 was SUPPOSED to be the last OS ..... remember? Now here we go again.
Windows upgrades are free but for businesses there are hidden costs like installing, retraining, eventually new proprietary software etc. behind it. Typically OS changes go with hardware change and it's all included in the price. Until really forced to, nobody wants to switch OS only. Everything has to go in a package. Banks and other large institutions mostly work with servers and that's some other ballgame, only small businesses are expected to work with individual PCs.
For individual users, unlike W8 and W10, I can see unusually large interest considering that W10 still has few years to go.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W10 and Insider Dev.+ Linux Mint
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Home brewed
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 7900x
    Motherboard
    ASROCK b650 PRO RS
    Memory
    2x8GB Kingston 6000MHz, Cl 32 @ 6200MHz Cl30
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Rx 6600XT Gaming OC 8G Pro
    Sound Card
    MB, Realtek Ac1220p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    3 x 27"
    Screen Resolution
    1080p
    Hard Drives
    Kingston KC3000. 1TBSamsung 970 evo Plus 500GB, Crucial P1 NVMe 1TB, Lexar NVMe 2 TB, Silicon Power M.2 SATA 500GB
    PSU
    Seasonic 750W
    Case
    Custom Raidmax
    Cooling
    Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360mm
    Internet Speed
    20/19 mbps
By the time that Windows 10 is finally binned in 2025, gen 10 or 11 processors will be available, with further security features. Future hackers will be finding vulnerabilities in those, too. Microsoft's Dev team will be working on Windows 12, and by then, potentially, hardware capabilities, and user preferences will have changed too. Depending how much Windows 11 disappoints the users, and the sales of new hardware goes, and what the Market share of some potential rivals for the PC desktop looks like, we will either see a partial reversal of the changes made this year, or they will make a yet more progressive, and limited and unusable copycat OS. Microsoft continuously fails to satisfy its user base by its insistence on secrecy, and "innovation"! without allowing backwards compatibility.

I am exasperated by the hubris of the design team in having an "Insider Program", but not polling its Insider user base on all aspects of the OS it may decide to deprecate in future, before making the changes, or at least not creating opt-out policies and optional add-in catalog changes to delay the impact on users of proposed removals at the time those changes are revealed. I am not at all surprised by their arrogance, though. Of course they could warn about unsupported legacy features when making changes, but to cut users off on the basis of imagined security hazards is plain rude. Stuff them too!

Example: WinHelp32.exe stub, still found in Windows 11. If I want to do some maintenance to a client's Microsoft Office Access 2.0 database I developed way back then, that has been continuously used to record the phenology of various woodland events in a certain location since 1987 (adding the years up to 1998 when I wrote the system for her), and she works in Windows XP (non-network, non internet) on a ten year old laptop, dual booted with Windows 10, and expects to do so until she pops her clogs, why should anything change? I also have to shift back to XP, if I want to do some very occasional work in Visual Basic For Applications to enhance this system. It was easy enough in XPMode on 7, but now it is not possible, although Office 97 runs like the blazes on Windows 10 and 11 too, just hobbled by an unnecessary lack of a contextual help system, which has never been hacked, except in a "proof of concept" demonstration in the noughties.

Saying that, I really couldn't care much. I take it with a pinch of salt, much like I do with the continual odour of skunk in the streets as I go out walking my dog. I don't like it, but I don't expect anybody to do much about it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11, update 21H2 29/06/2021 10.0.22000.51
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Apple iMac9,1
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo E8435 @ 3.06GHz
    Motherboard
    Apple Inc. Mac-F2218FA9
    Memory
    8 GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GForce GT 130
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Imac 2009 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    WDC WD1001FALS-40K1B0 SATA 1TB
    PSU
    Apple
    Case
    Aluminium (or is it Aluminum?)
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    USB UK extended generic
    Mouse
    Novatech USB wheel optical mouse
    Internet Speed
    51.4 down 16.7 up ethernet
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    MS Defender
    Other Info
    obtained secondhand from CEX 2018 £140
Interesting that the 22000.51 ISO is quite happy to install on a machine that meets the TPM2.0 & secure boot requirement, but only has a 6th gen CPU. Seems it doesn't enforce the minimum processor requirement.

Windows 11 22000.51 installing on 6th gen CPU.PNG


Edit: Worked perfectly. Played around with it tested it thoroughly for a few hours before restoring its 21H1 Macrium image. Everything worked, from very old apps like PaintShop Pro 7 and Movie Maker, up to the Hyper-V VMs that I run on that machine.
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB Samsung EVO 870 SSD
    Internet Speed
    50 Mbps
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October. Windows Update offered the 22H2 Feature Update on 20th September 2022. It got the 23H2 Feature Update on 4th November 2023 through Windows Update.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro (and all my Hyper-V VMs).

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 4GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Beta as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 4GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus the Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds as a native boot .vhdx.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i5-520M
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics card(s)
    (integrated graphics) Intel HD Graphics
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB Crucial MX500 SSD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround. In-place upgrade to 22H2 using ISO and a workaround. Feature Update to 23H2 by manually installing the Enablement Package. Also running Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro (and all my Hyper-V VMs).

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 4GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Beta as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 4GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus the Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds as a native boot .vhdx.
(snip)

Example: WinHelp32.exe stub, still found in Windows 11. If I want to do some maintenance to a client's Microsoft Office Access 2.0 database I developed way back then, that has been continuously used to record the phenology of various woodland events in a certain location since 1987 (adding the years up to 1998 when I wrote the system for her), and she works in Windows XP (non-network, non internet) on a ten year old laptop, dual booted with Windows 10, and expects to do so until she pops her clogs, why should anything change? I also have to shift back to XP, if I want to do some very occasional work in Visual Basic For Applications to enhance this system. It was easy enough in XPMode on 7, but now it is not possible, although Office 97 runs like the blazes on Windows 10 and 11 too, just hobbled by an unnecessary lack of a contextual help system, which has never been hacked, except in a "proof of concept" demonstration in the noughties.

(snip)

I've seen some rather varied corporate support for OS updates. On some machines controlled by Windows PCs, I've seen some updates never done mainly because the vendor wanted obscene fees to do that. (Like $20k or more.) Other machines ran Windows 98 past its expiration date because they needed real DOS mode. The unsupported machines were banished from the company's network, and data had to be transferred by sneakernet. (Fortunately, USB thumb drives became available.) One NT box had to use a hardware adapter, because it couldn't natively use USB drives.

The desktops tended to be upgraded several years after the OS went retail. PC hardware wasn't much of an issue, because all of the desktops were on 3 year leases with Dell.

My main frustration with them was that I needed a capability to burn data to a CD to transport it into a closed area. I was surprised when they replaced my desktop with a new one, and its optical drive was a CD-ROM. Not a burner. (I didn't think those were still made.) Later, IT broke that with one of their standard login scripts, even though I had official permission to burn CDs.

And some of the IT people had Macs at home. Didn't want to have to do IT work around the house.

I left the company 5 years ago. Rumor has it that they're moving in the thin client direction. They've gotten quite paranoid about protecting IP. They'd prefer that no data reside on desktops.
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Amd Threadripper 7970X
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D
    Memory
    128GB (4 X 32) Kingston DDR5 5200 (RDIMM)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC
    Sound Card
    none (USB to speakers), Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips 27E1N8900 OLED
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @ 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Crucial T700 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    WD 4TB Blue SATA SSD
    Seagate 18TB IronWolf Pro
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1600 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo XL
    Cooling
    Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360, with 3 Phanteks T30 fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel I9-13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus RoG Strix Z690-E
    Memory
    64GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 3090 ti
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB
    8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
    4TB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1300 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo
    Cooling
    Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
@bobkn - I wish they would just leave well alone - there's an old saying long promoted in the IT community - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" this particularly applies to new versions of OSs. I would like to bet that there is nothing that I could could do in Linux as released in 1991, that I could not do with the same ease in a distro released today.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11, update 21H2 29/06/2021 10.0.22000.51
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Apple iMac9,1
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo E8435 @ 3.06GHz
    Motherboard
    Apple Inc. Mac-F2218FA9
    Memory
    8 GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GForce GT 130
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Imac 2009 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    WDC WD1001FALS-40K1B0 SATA 1TB
    PSU
    Apple
    Case
    Aluminium (or is it Aluminum?)
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    USB UK extended generic
    Mouse
    Novatech USB wheel optical mouse
    Internet Speed
    51.4 down 16.7 up ethernet
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    MS Defender
    Other Info
    obtained secondhand from CEX 2018 £140
MS does not need to give a very good reason for preventing installers from installing their alpha software - what gave you that idea?

What gave you the idea that I got that idea? It was a few messages back that I explicitly stated that they are under no obligation to do so. I believe that transparency creates trust between enterprises and customers, and that it should always be aimed for as long as it doesn't become a security risk.

Microsoft could easily put themselves in the spotlight, get some great press, keep their user bas happy and I think that's very likely what they have in mind.

This could be one of those calculated moves where they first create outrage and then relax the requirements to save face, so that they appear as the good guys in the end.

I am just saying that the 6th gen is different from the 7th and the 8th gen, and the 7th and 8th gen are the same, that is what all I said.

So you did. But you never explained why those differences would be significant to Windows 11. That is what matters in the end.

I'm not competent to comment on the hardware security feature differences between the generations of Intel CPUs. Maybe MS is being arbitrary rather than using good engineering practices, but that feels unlikely.

I may be wrong but Skylake (not necessarily all CPU models) meets all original security feature requirements of Windows 10, including TPM 2.0 and the virtualization related ones such as core isolation, including memory integrity. What new is there in Windows 11 that couldn't be satisfied by that? I'm 99% sure that Windows 11 doesn't use the new CPU instructions that are supported by Intel's recent generations.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Home
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
What gave you the idea that I got that idea? It was a few messages back that I explicitly stated that they are under no obligation to do so. I believe that transparency creates trust between enterprises and customers, and that it should always be aimed for as long as it doesn't become a security risk.

Message #67 in this thread, where you wrote:
i486 said:

I don't expect future Windows versions to officially support antique hardware, but unless there is a very good reason which Microsoft makes public, Windows installers shouldn't prevent users from installing them at their own risk.


(bolding is yours) That's what gave me the idea. You wrote it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro build 22000.65
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion PC 570-p026
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 7400 @ 3 GHz
    Motherboard
    HP Model 82F2 (U3E1)
    Memory
    12 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer V173
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    500MB Samsung Evo+ SSD
    1TB Western Digital WDC WD10EZEX-60WN4A0 (SATA) 7200 RPM
    Internet Speed
    300/300 Mbs fiber
So you did. But you never explained why those differences would be significant to Windows 11. That is what matters in the end.

I am in no position to speak for Microsoft, I speak for my self, and everything I state is under the freedom of speech and no one under any obligation has to believe in it.


Microsoft claim they make tests, if they claim that the 6th gen didn't pass their tests, I can't argue that as the 6th gen has its own architecture, functions, microcode and errata.


But if Microsoft claims that the 7th gen didn't pass their tests but the 8th gen did, I will argue that and state with absolute certainty that it is a false claim as the 7th gen and the 8gen have exactly the same architecture, CPU ID and even the same microcode, exactly the same Microcode.


I believe that Microsoft has realized after my feedback the fact that the 7th and 8th gen are exactly the same, if not identical, as I stated before the the 8th gen is just more cores per CPU with lower speed of the 7th gen nothing more. (6 cores instead of 4).


For everyone, Microsoft claims it is not just Security, it is Security, Reliability and Compatibility.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 vmware
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    MSI GT83VR 7RF Titan SLI
    CPU
    i7 7820HK
    Memory
    64GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 1080 2x SLI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Nahimic 3
I am in no position to speak for Microsoft, I speak for my self, and everything I state is under the freedom of speech and no one under any obligation has to believe in it.


Microsoft claim they make tests, if they claim that the 6th gen didn't pass their tests, I can't argue that as the 6th gen has its own architecture, functions, microcode and errata.


But if Microsoft claims that the 7th gen didn't pass their tests but the 8th gen did, I will argue that and state with absolute certainty that it is a false claim as the 7th gen and the 8gen have exactly the same architecture, CPU ID and even the same microcode, exactly the same Microcode.


I believe that Microsoft has realized after my feedback the fact that the 7th and 8th gen are exactly the same, if not identical, as I stated before the the 8th gen is just more cores per CPU with lower speed of the 7th gen nothing more. (6 cores instead of 4).


For everyone, Microsoft claims it is not just Security, it is Security, Reliability and Compatibility.

You seem to put a lot of faith on what Microsoft claims, even though actions always speak louder than words. Read a couple of earlier messages from this thread if you haven't already, they might give you a different perspective on how corporate PR works. Everything they communicate to the public, shareholders or other parties, must serve profits. A fact.

Message #67 in this thread, where you wrote:
i486 said:

I don't expect future Windows versions to officially support antique hardware, but unless there is a very good reason which Microsoft makes public, Windows installers shouldn't prevent users from installing them at their own risk.


(bolding is yours) That's what gave me the idea. You wrote it.

I didn't mean to imply that Microsoft is under legal obligations to be transparent in their communications. It was a statement on how things should be from my point of view.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Home
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
You seem to put a lot of faith on what Microsoft claims, even though actions always speak louder than words. Read a couple of earlier messages from this thread if you haven't already, they might give you a different perspective on how corporate PR works. Everything they communicate to the public, shareholders or other parties, must serve profits. A fact.



I didn't mean to imply that Microsoft is under legal obligations to be transparent in their communications. It was a statement on how things should be from my point of view.

(Off-topic - love your avatar! I know I have one of those sitting around somewhere....an SX/25, but still)....

Yeah, we want transparency, but we'll never get it. If for no other reason, then because a company can at any time clam up because of 'trade secrets'.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    NZXT KRAKEN Z73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (3x 120 mm push top) + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
@bobkn - I wish they would just leave well alone - there's an old saying long promoted in the IT community - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" this particularly applies to new versions of OSs. I would like to bet that there is nothing that I could could do in Linux as released in 1991, that I could not do with the same ease in a distro released today.
Don' want to turn this into a "distro dispute" -- but at least with me, you would lose your bet -- badly!! I used several different distros for years and years and settled in on Ubuntu and Linux Mint a few years ago. And then, the key apps I used got dropped from the repos -- so I resorted to building them from scratch -- certainly not "the same ease" as installing from the repos. Then, the libraries got dropped and I could no longer build from source. Then, the printer utilities for checking ink levels got dropped, so I could no longer check that. This got to be so bad that two years ago, I stopped using the distros altogether. I recently tried Ubuntu 20.04 to see if things were any better -- they were not.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Ryzen 5600X
    Motherboard
    ASRock Steel Legend
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GT 710
    Sound Card
    None
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23",24", 19" - flat panels
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    None - only M.2 SATA and NVMe drives
    PSU
    750W
    Case
    Antec
    Cooling
    stock Wraith cooler
    Keyboard
    Corsair gaming
    Mouse
    Logitech M720
    Internet Speed
    1Gb
@bobkn - I wish they would just leave well alone - there's an old saying long promoted in the IT community - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" this particularly applies to new versions of OSs. I would like to bet that there is nothing that I could could do in Linux as released in 1991, that I could not do with the same ease in a distro released today.

I've never used Linux. Haven't used Solaris or AT&T Unix in many years.

Congrats on changing the spelling of your handle to the one Fritz Leiber used. :)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Amd Threadripper 7970X
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D
    Memory
    128GB (4 X 32) Kingston DDR5 5200 (RDIMM)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC
    Sound Card
    none (USB to speakers), Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips 27E1N8900 OLED
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @ 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Crucial T700 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    WD 4TB Blue SATA SSD
    Seagate 18TB IronWolf Pro
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1600 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo XL
    Cooling
    Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360, with 3 Phanteks T30 fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel I9-13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus RoG Strix Z690-E
    Memory
    64GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 3090 ti
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB
    8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
    4TB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1300 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo
    Cooling
    Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
You seem to put a lot of faith on what Microsoft claims, even though actions always speak louder than words. Read a couple of earlier messages from this thread if you haven't already, they might give you a different perspective on how corporate PR works. Everything they communicate to the public, shareholders or other parties, must serve profits. A fact.

I just accused Microsoft of making a false claim and you are telling me that I am putting faith on Microsoft!!!???

I am starting to wonder if you understand anything I wrote !?

i will explain no more, you need to read everything I wrote here and on the tenforums .....

p.s. I can't argue doesn't mean I agree, as I stated it is just a claim, I doubt that Microsoft made any test to begin with.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 vmware
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    MSI GT83VR 7RF Titan SLI
    CPU
    i7 7820HK
    Memory
    64GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 1080 2x SLI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Nahimic 3
I just accused Microsoft of making a false claim and you are telling me that I am putting faith on Microsoft!!!???

I am starting to wonder if you understand anything I wrote !?

i will explain no more, you need to read everything I wrote here and on the tenforums .....

p.s. I can't argue doesn't mean I agree, as I stated it is just a claim, I doubt that Microsoft made any test to begin with.

Honestly, this part of your post didn't register when I read it in a hurry:
"But if Microsoft claims that the 7th gen didn't pass their tests but the 8th gen did, I will argue that and state with absolute certainty that it is a false claim as the 7th gen and the 8gen have exactly the same architecture, CPU ID and even the same microcode, exactly the same Microcode."
Sorry about that. The prosecution rests.

I'd be surprised if they actually tested these like they claim. It's good that there still are individuals who take these arguments directly to Microsoft.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Home
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
MS comes out with a new update that is a Windows 10 improvement. I have seen so many post about Windows 10 being the last Windows release. What the H**l dose it matter what they call it. Windows 11 is just a update that they could of just called a Windows 10 update. As for Windows 11 not being compatible with older systems. Isn't it time that MS Windows started going forward. I do feel sorry for anyone using a older system but Windows 10 is still alive even at the end of support Windows 10 devices will still run. As long as there is security updates either for Windows 10 or the security programs that one s running where is the problem? No one has to trash their Windows 10 devices when support ends.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec B746
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    16GB (8GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM x2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung SAM0A87 Samsung SAM0D32
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    NVMe WDC WDS100T2B0C-00PXH0 1TB
    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
    PSU
    750 Watts (62.5A)
    Case
    PowerSpec/Lian Li ATX 205
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270
    Mouse
    Logitech M185
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge and Firefox
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G156
    CPU
    Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz
    Motherboard
    AsusTeK Prime B360M-S
    Memory
    16 MB DDR 4-2666
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Speptre HDMI 75Hz
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 EVO 500GB NVMe
    Mouse
    Logitek M185
    Keyboard
    Logitek K270
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge and Edge Canary
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
I've never used Linux. Haven't used Solaris or AT&T Unix in many years.

Congrats on changing the spelling of your handle to the one Fritz Leiber used. :)
I don't know about changing the spelling of my handle. I have used it on SevenForums since 10/02/2011, and have been a fan of Fritz Leiber fantasy since the late 60s. It is said that he coined the term "Sword and Sorcery". JRR Tolkien with The Hobbit in 1937 & Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser first appearing in 1939, probably were independent of each other. Both fundamentally contributed to an amazing flow of imagination which still flourishes today in literature, media and in particular, online gaming. This aspect has driven the technology, capability and popularity of personal computing since the 1980s, and continues to be a strong driving influence.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11, update 21H2 29/06/2021 10.0.22000.51
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Apple iMac9,1
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo E8435 @ 3.06GHz
    Motherboard
    Apple Inc. Mac-F2218FA9
    Memory
    8 GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GForce GT 130
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Imac 2009 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    WDC WD1001FALS-40K1B0 SATA 1TB
    PSU
    Apple
    Case
    Aluminium (or is it Aluminum?)
    Cooling
    Fan
    Keyboard
    USB UK extended generic
    Mouse
    Novatech USB wheel optical mouse
    Internet Speed
    51.4 down 16.7 up ethernet
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    MS Defender
    Other Info
    obtained secondhand from CEX 2018 £140
I don't know about changing the spelling of my handle. I have used it on SevenForums since 10/02/2011, and have been a fan of Fritz Leiber fantasy since the late 60s. (snip)

Did I make an error? I thought you used to make it "fafrd".
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Amd Threadripper 7970X
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D
    Memory
    128GB (4 X 32) Kingston DDR5 5200 (RDIMM)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 4090 OC
    Sound Card
    none (USB to speakers), Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips 27E1N8900 OLED
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @ 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Crucial T700 2TB M.2 NVME SSD
    WD 4TB Blue SATA SSD
    Seagate 18TB IronWolf Pro
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1600 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo XL
    Cooling
    Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360, with 3 Phanteks T30 fans
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Internet Speed
    1200 Mbps
  • Operating System
    windows 11 22631.2861
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    homebuilt
    CPU
    Intel I9-13900K
    Motherboard
    Asus RoG Strix Z690-E
    Memory
    64GB G.Skill DDR5-6000
    Graphics card(s)
    Gigabyte RTX 3090 ti
    Sound Card
    built in Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus PA329C
    Screen Resolution
    3840 X 2160 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WDC SN850 1TB
    8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
    4TB Seagate Ironwolf
    PSU
    eVGA SuperNOVA 1300 GT
    Case
    Lian Li 011 Dynamic Evo
    Cooling
    Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech M500s (wired)
    Keyboard
    Logitech K120 (wired)

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