Very long pause before bios post screen quandary

Please read this post completely before answering. I'm running Windows 11. It is an HP Gaming desktop with a 460 GB NVM2 drive. It also has a 1TB Sata SDD that is a clone of the first that I can also boot from. The PC has an Intel I7 CPU. I pose this issue to you folks that have an intimate knowledge of the UEFI boot process. I'll try to set this up with as much information as possible. Also understand I have been working to fins a solution to this question for three years. I have read and tried untold different things to resolve the issue.

I purchase this PC new. It came with a regular 1TB HDD sata drive. When new, from the moment the power button was pressed, the PC was booted and Windows was completely running in less than 35 seconds. I later upgraded to the NVM2 drive. I used a third party app to move the information form the original drive to the NVM2. It has been so long now, I don't remember which app I used.

As well, it has been so long now. I don't remember if this issue was immediate to installing the new drive, but I think I remember the PC booting into windows in 25 seconds or less. Soon after I noticed it seemed like the PC was taking an in inordinate amount of time to boot. So, I decided to watch. This is what I have seen from that time.

I have the bios set up so I can see the Post screen. In the bios I have the Post screen delay set to none. From the moment I press the power button and I see the power light there is about 40 seconds pass before the Post screen show up on the monitor. The post screen shows for three seconds and from that point Windows is loaded in about 20 seconds. My question is WHY is there such a long pause or delay from the moment the power is applied until the post screen shows? Since the 80's I've owned or operated hundreds of PC's and this is a first for me. I have also searched an read many web sites for possible answers. I have talked with techs and engineers at HP. That was a useless exercise in futility. The HP help site and forum is full of people that cannot read. GRIN I really am open to any and all suggestions because I'm not sure I can remember or relate all the things I have tried which include:

1. updated all device drivers (many times)
2. updated the bios. (many times)
3. verified in SYSINFO that UEFI bios is enabled.
4. Changed , checked and tried a score of settings in the very limited bios screens afforded by HP. Believe me, I have tried them all.
5. Reseated and/or cleaned the contacts on all memory.
6. Reseated and/or cleaned the contacts on the NVM2 drive.
7 Reseated and/or cleaned contacts on the CPU
8.Checked all voltages from the power supply
9. Selected and deselected fast startup in Windows power settings (made no difference wither way)
10. Disconnected all devices connected to any USB port ( I really thought this was the answer. It wasn't)
11. Disconnected one of the two monitors. The PC has a GSI 1050ti video card that came in it originally.
12. Removed or uninstalled many apps.
13. Spoke with the people that I thought developed the bios (since their name was on it) they said they have nothing to do with that.
I felt a breeze.

I have not tried removing the network or video card. The PC takes the exact same amount of time to boot from the cloned secondary drive as it does from the main drive. I have not tried booting with one or the other of the drives removed. I have not tried a new motherboard. HP offered to change it out if I would box and sent the entire PC in and wait months to get it back. It's not that much of an inconvenience.

I do run Windows 11 updating almost on a weekly basis in through the Windoze insiders Dev channel. This issue started before I started this and while I was still running Win 10.

I know almost nothing about what process the PC goes through in botting from UEFI. The PC runs normally once it is booted. It is very fast. I'm sure there may be suggestions of things I have tried already. That is fine. I can't remember everything I have tried.

On every other PC I have or have every operated, once the power button is pressed and power light is on there is a second or two. Then a signal to the monitor is noticed and the post screen appears. Then, the Windows start screen appears and boots into the OS. Average time, 35 to 50 seconds.

Moment by moment description of the issue
The power button is pressed and I see the power light . There is about 45 seconds and then see the monitor get a signal, Two seconds later the post screen appears. From this point, the OS boots normally. Total of about a minute and 15 seconds.

I don't mean to sound redundant. If you can think of anything here I have not described, please let me know. I waiting on that one suggestion where I can have that "Well ugh...duh" moment. Thanks for your time.

RubberDuck said:

I have not tried booting with one or the other of the drives removed.

Click to expand...

Might want to try that. Since that's when the problem started for you... right?

IF that solves the problem, then we'll have an idea where to start.



Other things to do:

1. Post a screenshot of Disk Management
2. Take a picture of the Boot tab in your BIOS and post that as well.

Drat, foiled again. I the secondary put first. No improvement. Pulled the NVM2. I had forgot how hard this was to get to.
Anyway, no improvement. I did think this may have worked. Also when removed each of the boot drives I also disconnected the CDROM drive and anything connected to a USB port. Here is the Disk Management screen. I'll be back after I take a shot of the boot tab in the bios.

RubberDuck said:

Drat, foiled again. I the secondary put first. No improvement. Pulled the NVM2. I had forgot how hard this was to get to.
Anyway, no improvement. I did think this may have worked. Also when removed each of the boot drives I also disconnected the CDROM drive and anything connected to a USB port. Here is the Disk Management screen. I'll be back after I take a shot of the boot tab in the bios.

View attachment 30508

Click to expand...

I have two SSDs. One with Win 10 the other with Win 11. They're identical otherwise.
But I only hook one of them up at a time.

I think you need to have only one EFI partition, or need to edit it, so the computer knows there's two operating systems.
@NavyLCDR might know better than I how to do something like that.

Both of my SSDs are 2.5" so it's easy for me to just swap the cables, when I want to switch drives.
You a LOT going on there on your OS drives, which I think might be the problem.

Personally, I think Windows is getting senile. So I try to keep it simple so Windows can "keep up". :)


This is showing my Windows 10 drive, but my Windows 11 drive is identical, so when I swap the cables, Windows
doesn't get confused.

Here is the boot screen from the bios. The top one is the NVM drive and bottom is the clone. I reconnected them all since it didn't seem to have an effect.

Ghot said:

I have two SSDs. One with Win 10 the other with Win 11. They're identical otherwise.
But I only hook one of them up at a time.

I think you need to have only one EFI partition, or need to edit it, so the computer knows there's two operating systems.
@NavyLCDR might know better than I how to do something like that.

Both of my SSDs are 2.5" so it's easy for me to just swap the cables, when I want to switch drives.
You a LOT going on there on your OS drives, which I think might be the problem.

Click to expand...

I wondered about how the different areas on the OS drives might be an issue. I do remember now that some point early I had to install Windows 10. Of course the install program performed all the setup of the drive itself. The clone is exactly that, it's a clone of the C drive. I know I have a lot of wasted space on the clone. I just haven't got around to purchasing another drive with less space. I cloned the C Drive using Acronis.

RubberDuck said:

Here is the boot screen from the bios. The top one is the NVM drive and bottom is the clone. I reconnected them all since it didn't seem to have an effect.

Click to expand...

Yeah... those BIOS settings look good.
I still think it's the TWO... EFI partitions.


I don't know why you have two drives with Windows on them, but you should probably be dual booting.
Then when you boot, you'll get a choice of which OS you want to boot to.


If the 2nd drive is just for a backup... then you should be using backup software instead.
Something like Macrium Reflect or AOMEI Backupper, etc.

Ghot said:

Yeah... those BIOS settings look good.
I still think it's the TWO... EFI partitions.


I don't know why you have two drives with Windows on them, but you should probably be dual booting.
Then when you boot, you'll get a choice of which OS you want to boot to.


If the 2nd drive is just for a backup... then you should be using backup software instead.
Something like Macrium Reflect or AOMEI Backupper, etc.

Click to expand...

Here's mine, all 3 have their own EFI and do not see this issue. After the boot UI and I select which one I want it's maybe 10 seconds or so

CornishRattler said:

Here's mine, all 3 have their own EFI and do not see this issue. After the boot UI and I select which one I want it's maybe 10 seconds or so

View attachment 30512View attachment 30512

Click to expand...

I think your BCD is probably different than his.
BCD is not my thing though.
(Boot Configuration Data)

I think you are set up to triple boot, but his is only set up to single boot.
It's one thing I've never messed with.

It might be as simple as booting from the Macrium rescue media and choosing "Fix Boot Problems".
But, I don't clone... ever, and I've never even tried to dual boot.
On top of everything else... it's an HP. Another thing I've never done... prebuilt.

Ghot said:

Yeah... those BIOS settings look good.
I still think it's the TWO... EFI partitions.


I don't know why you have two drives with Windows on them, but you should probably be dual booting.
Then when you boot, you'll get a choice of which OS you want to boot to.


If the 2nd drive is just for a backup... then you should be using backup software instead.
Something like Macrium Reflect or AOMEI Backupper, etc.

Click to expand...

I use Acronis and have it doing scheduled backups on my home network. I lost some precious
data and work a few years ago and now I guess I'm somewhat paranoid. Plus I have backups going to the other attached drives. Yep, P-A-R-A-N-O-I-D. Like your signature

You can never have too much backup!

I got the clone idea from work. We had a clone setup so if our process drive crashed we could have production back
up and lose maybe 5 minutes. It did save us once or twice. Since then reliability has improved greatly. So maybe I will
loose the clone.

It's not necessary to have a hot swap drive as a backup. I retired and have too much time to think up Daffy stuff.
I will reformat that drive and give that a shot.

​

@RubberDuck

I would just just rethink things.
Use the NVMe as your Windows drive.
If you're running out of room on that drive... just move some of the stuff on there to a storage drive.

Like I install all my games on a storage drive. My Windows drive only has 40GB total on there.
You bought a bigger SSD. Uninstall big programs from the NVMe drive and re-install them on the 1TB SSD.

Your NVMe drive is plenty big enough if you don't just install everything on that drive.


/edit
I agree... you can nebver have too much backup.
I just do things a bit differently.
I keep the total data on my C:\ drive to 40GB, and adjust where I install things.

If you look at my disk management pic.. you'll see that Disk 1 and Disk 2 are identical as well.
Disk 1 is my working storage drive, and Disk 2 is a one to one copy of Disk1.
I also keep backups of my Windows install as well, on Disk 1 (OS BckUps)... which is then copied to Disk 2 (OS BckUps 2).





I use a free program called Karen's Replicator to copy whatever is on my 4TB drive to my 8TB drive.
It's a tiny little program, that I run once every 2-3 days, to copy any changes on the 4TB to the 8TB.

I have a 2nd 500GB SSD with Windows 11 on it. When I want to be on Win 11, it takes me less than 60 seconds to switch the cables.

Since all my games (large programs) are installed on the F:\ drive... when I switch to the Win 11 drive, they are still available.

Ghot said:

@RubberDuck

I would just just rethink things.
Use the NVMe as your Windows drive.
If you're running out of room on that drive... just move some of the stuff on there to a storage drive.

Like I install all my games on a storage drive. My Windows drive only has 40GB total on there.
You bought a bigger SSD. Uninstall big programs from the NVMe drive and re-install them on the 1TB SSD.

Your NVMe drive is plenty big enough if you don't just install everything on that drive.


/edit
I agree... you can nebver have too much backup.
I just do things a bit differently.
I keep the total data on my C:\ drive to 40GB, and adjust where I install things.

If you look at my disk management pic.. you'll see that Disk 1 and Disk 2 are identical as well.
Disk 1 is my working storage drive, and Disk 2 is a one to one copy of Disk1.
I also keep backups of my Windows install as well, on Disk 1 (OS BckUps)... which is then copied to Disk 2 (OS BckUps 2).


View attachment 30513


I use a free program called Karen's Replicator to copy whatever is on my 4TB drive to my 8TB drive.
It's a tiny little program, that I run once every 2-3 days, to copy any changes on the 4TB to the 8TB.

I have a 2nd 500GB SSD with Windows 11 on it. When I want to be on Win 11, it takes me less than 60 seconds to switch the cables.

Since all my games (large programs) are installed on the F:\ drive... when I switch to the Win 11 drive, they are still available.

Click to expand...

Ahhh I see. Your OS and files are nicely organized. I can do that and utilize the 1TB drive for something other than wasted space. I could also utilize my Acronis backup more efficiently. I use Acronis because I received the free version with one of the drives I purchased. Then I purchased Acronis because it's what I got use to. I have 20 TB out on my home network. That's plenty room for backups. I don't have 20tb of wasted space. I use that as a server for our movies also.

Karen's Replicator sounds like a good. You say you copy changes. Does that app recognize what has changed?
It's been so long since I've sat down an organized things on my system. I guess this is a wake up call.

I can probably cut back on my number of backups. I have Acronis back up my OS drive every night. For home use that may be excessive. I am a ham radio operator. Things in that arena has also gone more digital. I run a Software Defined Radio, SDR, transceiver. All the audio and much of the filtering for the radio is performed by software now. So in effect, the PC is the radio. All the other hardware is the circuits that needs to be hard wired. SDR has taken radio into a whole new world of quality. You can do things never before possible with analog transceivers. Told that story for this. I don't want to loose all fine settings I have in several pieces of SDR software. That too has become easier with new versions and I don't really need to back up that often. Only the basic configuration files are needed.

One last question. In formatting a drive, is there an advantage of regular formatting as opposed to the "quick formatting"?

@RubberDuck

With Karen's Replicator you create the job to do whatever you want.
It recognizes changes, and copies those changes (adds or deletes), to wherever you tell it to.
You can make it run on a schedule or manually.
You can set it to copy a whole Disk, or just certain partition(s) on the Disk.

This is the "job" that copies the F: partition on my 4TB, to the J: partition on my 8TB



I run three main jobs. Programs to Programs 2, Media to Media 2, and Series to Series 2.
But you can set yours however you like.
I don't do the OS Backups partition because they aren't the same.
On G:\ ...I just keep the two current backups (Win 10 and Win 11), and on K:\ ...I keep copies of ALL the backups.





As for formatting, I just use Minitool Partition Wizard (free), and delete everything, then do a quick format.
I also use Macrium Reflect for my backup software. I used to use Acronis religiously, but it's just too much trouble.

Here's my Macrium guide...






Quickie Macrium picture guide...


Macrium Reflect User Guide...

Macrium Notes:
1. A full OS image backup will be approx. 1/2 the size of the total "used space" on the C:\ drive.
2. Backing up takes about 75 seconds for every 20GB of "used space" on the C:\ drive.



Full tutorial...









I let MY paranoia and my OCD, design my setup.
The trick is to keep the amount of data on the C:\ drive, down to a minimum.
That way... backups and restores are fast.

Ghot said:

@RubberDuck

With Karen's Replicator you create the job to do whatever you want.
It recognizes changes, and copies those changes (adds or deletes), to wherever you tell it to.
You can make it run on a schedule or manually.

This is the "job" that copies the F: partition on my 4TB, to the J: partition on my 8TB

View attachment 30528

I run three main jobs. Programs to Programs 2, Media to Media 2, and Series to Series 2.
But you can set yours however you like.

View attachment 30529



As for formatting, I just use Minitool Partition Wizard (free), and delete everything, then do a quick format.
I also use Macrium Reflect for my backup software. I used to use Acronis religiously, but it's just too much trouble.

Here's my Macrium guide...

Macrium Reflect | Free 30-Day Trial

Macrium Reflect - Incredibly powerful software that allows you to create and schedule effective backups

www.macrium.com

Quickie Macrium picture guide...

Macrium Reflect, AOMEI Backupper and Hasleo Backup Suite - GUIDES

How to use backup software... 1. When everything is working perfectly... make a full Windows backup. 2. Then, if something breaks... restore from the latest backup. 3. Then... try "whatever you were doing" a different way. If it still breaks Windows, then... go to step #2. 4. Repeat...

www.elevenforum.com

Macrium Reflect User Guide...

https://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v8/user_guide/macrium_reflect_v8.0_user_guide.pdf

Macrium Notes:
1. A full OS image backup will be approx. 1/2 the size of the total "used space" on the C:\ drive.
2. Backing up takes about 75 seconds for every 20GB of "used space" on the C:\ drive.



Full tutorial...

Backup and Restore with Macrium Reflect

How to Create and Restore a System Image Backup with Macrium Reflect

www.tenforums.com

Click to expand...

I have and do use Minitool Partition Wizard. It works really well. I'm going to download and try Macrium and Karen's Replicator. I've read many good things about Macrium. Thanks for all the help and advice. I will let you know how things turn out. I've always thought there may be something simple causing the issue I've been seeing. I also thought if there was a hardware problem I would also be seeing other problems or issues. Everything runs great after booting. It'll probably be tomorrow before I know anything. The lawn mower is calling my name.

RubberDuck said:

I have and do use Minitool Partition Wizard. It works really well. I'm going to download and try Macrium and Karen's Replicator. I've read many good things about Macrium. Thanks for all the help and advice. I will let you know how things turn out. I've always thought there may be something simple causing the issue I've been seeing. I also thought if there was a hardware problem I would also be seeing other problems or issues. Everything runs great after booting. It'll probably be tomorrow before I know anything. The lawn mower is calling my name.

Click to expand...

CONVOY

Ghot said:

CONVOY



Ah, breaker one-nine, this here's the Rubber Duck
You gotta copy on me, Pig Pen, c'mon?
Ah, yeah, 10-4, Pig Pen, fer shure, fer shure
By golly, it's clean clear to Flag Town, c'mon
Yeah, that's a big 10-4 there, Pig Pen
Yeah, we definitely got the front door, good buddy
Mercy sakes alive, looks like we got us a convoy

Was the dark of the moon on the sixth of June
In a Kenworth pullin' logs
Cab-over Pete with a reefer on
And a Jimmy haulin' hogs
We is headin' for bear on I-one-oh
'Bout a mile outta Shaky Town
I says, "Pig Pen, this here's the Rubber Duck
"And I'm about to put the hammer down"

'Cause we got a little ol' convoy
Rockin' through the night
Yeah, we got a little ol' convoy
Ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy
'Cross the USA

Click to expand...

Ahh

I didn't think of that Ha! Actually Ham radio has no resemblance to CB Radio which is that song is referring to. Ham radio encompasses a whole gamut of wireless communication. Digital, satellite communications and we have even been known at times bounce signals off the moon. We provide communications in places where all other types of comms have been wiped out. A good example, when Katrina hit Ham radio communications is all they had. Maybe a few CBers.
Most aren't preppers either. Most preppers are CBers. Ya don't have to study to be a CBer Plus we have to be tested and federally licensed. Yes, it is fun. I once had the opportunity to communicate directly to the ISS. Yes, there are some astronauts that are hams and they have ham radios in the ISS. It was a very limited conversation.

It has been a long time since I've heard that song.

Bad news is, Formatting that drive didn't help. I dunno what the fix is if there is one. Thanks for the help. And serinade! Have a good evening!

RubberDuck said:

Ahh

I didn't think of that Ha! Actually Ham radio has no resemblance to CB Radio which is that song is referring to. Ham radio encompasses a whole gamut of wireless communication. Digital, satellite communications and we have even been known at times bounce signals off the moon. We provide communications in places where all other types of comms have been wiped out. A good example, when Katrina hit Ham radio communications is all they had. Maybe a few CBers.
Most aren't preppers either. Most preppers are CBers. Ya don't have to study to be a CBer Plus we have to be tested and federally licensed. Yes, it is fun. I once had the opportunity to communicate directly to the ISS. Yes, there are some astronauts that are hams and they have ham radios in the ISS. It was a very limited conversation.

It has been a long time since I've heard that song.

Bad news is, Formatting that drive didn't help. I dunno what the fix is if there is one. Thanks for the help. And serinade! Have a good evening!

Click to expand...

Now that you just have one drive with an OS... run the Macrium bootable Rescue Media > Fix Windows Boot Problems

See the: Quickie Macrium Picture Guide... above.




Then... if the problem still exists, we can start checking other things.

Is the BIOS the most up to date version offered by the manufacturer?

Yes, It's new as of last week.

I've reformatted the D drive. It's a total blank. Run Macrium at boot and used the tool to repair boot problems. It didn't help at all.
I'm giving it up for today Daffy is daffed out.

NavyLCDR said:

Is the BIOS the most up to date version offered by the manufacturer?

Click to expand...

Good Day Sirs,

Yes , the bios was updated last week. A newer version came out. I have also flashed it in the past with different versions suggested by HP support. None helped the issue. This is the correct for the machine and not some other one that HP wanted to try. The fellow I spoke with there was not that interested in helping. He was more interested in me boxing the desktop up and sending it in. Thank you all for your time. I would like to solve the issue as I stated before. If I'm not able to resolve the issue I have learned quite a bit from the exercise. GHOT has been a great help.

Also, Macrium is MUCH easier to set up than Acronis. Plus, the Macrium backup full backup took about 15 minutes compared to over an hour for Acronis.

I have been calling the NVMe drive an NVM2. That was just my personal designation and it got solidly in my brain.
Sometimes my terminology lacks accuracy.

I still think that if I had a real hardware problem, I would be seeing other performance issues?
Would that be an accurate assessment?