Windows 11 Refs

bruno16757 · Aug 11, 2024

I decided to install on refs boot. works well so far. using right now RP channel.

jimbo45 · Aug 12, 2024

bruno16757 said:
I decided to install on refs boot. works well so far. using right now RP channel.

@bruno16757

One problem (unless I've mis-understood the system properly) is that NAS systems not running Windows won't be able to access Refs files -- Sending files FROM windows though should be OK either via bog standard file sharing (SMB) or any sort of file transfer protocol e.g sftp.

However if you want FROM a NAS to access a particular file on Windows it probably won't be possible as Refs is proprietary and nobody so far has "Reverse engineered" it yet.

I'll try an experimental Windows install to test this -- easy enough to do although again I'm not sure if Refs supports physical vhdx files so again could be a hassle - so will need a dedicated disk to test this. However if you've already tried this and it all works please post.

Cheers
jimbo

bruno16757 · Aug 12, 2024

jimbo45 said:
@bruno16757

One problem (unless I've mis-understood the system properly) is that NAS systems not running Windows won't be able to access Refs files -- Sending files FROM windows though should be OK either via bog standard file sharing (SMB) or any sort of file transfer protocol e.g sftp.

However if you want FROM a NAS to access a particular file on Windows it probably won't be possible as Refs is proprietary and nobody so far has "Reverse engineered" it yet.

I'll try an experimental Windows install to test this -- easy enough to do although again I'm not sure if Refs supports physical vhdx files so again could be a hassle - so will need a dedicated disk to test this. However if you've already tried this and it all works please post.

Cheers
jimbo

thanks i dont have a NAS system.

Hopachi · Aug 19, 2024

bruno16757 said:
I decided to install on refs boot. works well so far. using right now RP channel.

You mean the bootable system disk containing Windows is formated in REFS?
A screenshot would be nice.

jimbo45 · Sep 8, 2024

Hopachi said:
You mean the bootable system disk containing Windows is formated in REFS?
A screenshot would be nice.

Agree.
I can't understand it when after answering a posters question with a solution like "I can boot this" or "This piece of hardware works (or doesn't work) they don't post either a screen shot or if not possible at say the boot stage, a screenshot of the configuration.

This Forum (thanks @z3r010 ) is probably one of the easiest on the internet to attach an image and post inline with your post.

cheers
jimbo

maur0 · Sep 8, 2024

jimbo45 · Sep 8, 2024

maur0 said:

Hi there

@maur0
Thanks !!!!!

Much appreciated !!

I'm going to have a go in a VM - it's on a LINUX host so I want to see if SAMBA (SMB) or filezilla (sftp) protocols allow sending / retrieving files / data to / from refs formatted files.

I doubt if Linux can do a direct read of refs though so a Linux host wanting to say play / stream multi-media files from Windows might have to copy the files first.

Still - an interesting experiment to do/

Cheers
jimbo

XxXxX · Sep 8, 2024

@jimbo45
just a bit about Linux and the reFS driver which maybe of interest.

Linux Gets A Proprietary, Read-Only ReFS File-System Driver - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Introduction – ReFS for Linux

Rapid and transparent access to ReFS volumes under Linux with read and write functionality

www.paragon-software.com

hope this is of help, best of luck. Steve ..

Hopachi · Sep 10, 2024

@XxXxX
Thanks for the info. Paragon has some decent software out there.

@maur0
Thanks for posting. I've seen some of these on other forums, still very experimental. Though works miraculously well, some hiccups here and there, no OneDrive or System Restore so I've heard, but no really big deal breakers there.
Hopefully the system drive remains bootable in-between updates...

I wouldn't put it on my main machine just yet but is nice to see.

maur0 · Sep 10, 2024

Hopachi said:
@XxXxX
Thanks for the info. Paragon has some decent software out there.

@maur0
Thanks for posting. I've seen some of these on other forums, still very experimental. Though works miraculously well, some hiccups here and there, no OneDrive or System Restore so I've heard, but no really big deal breakers there.
Hopefully the system drive remains bootable in-between updates...

I wouldn't put it on my main machine just yet but is nice to see.

yes, it is not worth it to still use refs in Windows boot and system because as you said, OneDrive and Restore and even games do not allow installation on this system, who knows in the future this will change in Windows 11 25h2 or even 26h2, this will be fixed and games will be supported and the rest too
Although the refs does not have a speed improvement, it is only better because it supports more folders and files, and it is more difficult to corrupt than NTFS, right? If the power goes out 30 times in a day, the chance of the refs crashing the system is lower than that of NTFS, right?

In practice, refs are only good if the person has folders with 50 thousand files or more or has 40 thousand folders, etc.

jimbo45 · Sep 12, 2024

maur0 said:
yes, it is not worth it to still use refs in Windows boot and system because as you said, OneDrive and Restore and even games do not allow installation on this system, who knows in the future this will change in Windows 11 25h2 or even 26h2, this will be fixed and games will be supported and the rest too
Although the refs does not have a speed improvement, it is only better because it supports more folders and files, and it is more difficult to corrupt than NTFS, right? If the power goes out 30 times in a day, the chance of the refs crashing the system is lower than that of NTFS, right?

In practice, refs are only good if the person has folders with 50 thousand files or more or has 40 thousand folders, etc.

Hi there
If you have that many files / folders then you are far better off using a LINUX NAS and share files with Windows !!!-- Things like file explorer and NTFS get slow and ponderous once the numbers start getting large -- especially on sequential read / writes. You can say what you like against Linux but the whole I/O subsystem is infinitely better optimised than the NTFS file system especially with XFS or Btrfs file systems. (Windows share can read /write those via file explorer etc provided SMB (any version enabled) on Windows and SAMBA set up on the NAS.

Cheers
jimbo