Advice required.

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

I’m after advice on the deprecation Windows 7/8/8.1 backup & restore & the use of third party backup solutions.
I‘m constantly being told on another forum that Windows 7 backup & restore is still recommended by Microsoft & is not deprecated as it was returned in Windows 8.1 & that it is not a system image backup. Imo he is incorrect & that B&R & SIB are just different names for the same thing.
Microsoft themselves recommend third party solutions but this users is adamant I am incorrect in suggesting this So I am looking for clarification on this from minds more smarter than mine.
I can post his comments if required or send them via PM.

This is my default reply for anyone using Windows 10/11 & having backup problems:
Windows backup & maybe in the future file history are being deprecated & will eventually be removed, what you’re experiencing may be related to that.

https://docs.microsoft.com/windows/desktop/w8cookbook/windows-7-backup-and-restore-deprecated

Microsoft recommend using third party software:
“System Image Backup (SIB) Solution
We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors.”

Deprecated features in the Windows client

Review the list of features that Microsoft is no longer actively developing in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

docs.microsoft.com

I recommend moving to third party imaging software now before it is removed permanently if you prefer backing up your PC rather than using File history.
Many users recommend Macrium Reflect free:

If this needs to be moved to another forum then that’s fine.

Bree · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
I’m after advice on the deprecation Windows 8/8.1 backup & restore & the use of third party backup solutions.
I‘m constantly being told on another forum that Windows 8 backup & restore is still recommended by Microsoft & is not deprecated as it was returned in Windows 8.1 & that it is not a system image backup. Imo he is incorrect & that B&R & SIB are just different names for the same thing.

No, files backup & restore and System Image Backup (SIB) are two quite separate functions, they just happen to be integrated into the one application. SIB is the part that has been specifically deprecated by Microsoft. But as one half of that app is deprecated, then should MS finally remove it then you'd lose both functions.

The files and folders backup is a really poor design and I'd never recommend using it. It stores the backups in a set of multiple .zip files, making it virtually impossible to manually retrieve anything. It's only practical to recover files through backup & restore itself.

Microsoft said:
Feature Details and mitigation Deprecation announced
System Image Backup (SIB) Solution We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors. 1709

Deprecated features in the Windows client

Review the list of features that Microsoft is no longer actively developing in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

learn.microsoft.com

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

Thanks @Bree. I’ve pointed the user to the relevant MS articles but they’re still convinced that as they’re two different products that B&R is here to stay.
As I’ve never used B&R am I correct in saying it does not create a disk image but just backs up files & folders or does it do both but the imaging part has been deprecated?

SlicEnDicE · Feb 22, 2023

Don't use MS own backup functionality. Deprecated or not, all versions and styles are unreliable and difficult to manage.
Macrium reflect or similar apps (as there are many alternatives) is the way forward.
If you really want to go simple, then use robocopy in the Command Line for file backups and learn how to use the Archive File system Flag to even make regular differential backups in their own folders, which you could compress to reduce space usage for easier and faster transferring of backups.

Try3 · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
As I’ve never used B&R am I correct in saying it does not create a disk image but just backs up files & folders or does it do both but the imaging part has been deprecated?

It does both.
MS have told us not to use the system imaging part of it.
MS have not told us to stop using the folders & files backup part of it but, as Bree pointed out, that was always a lousy utility.

All the best,
Denis

Bree · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
As I’ve never used B&R am I correct in saying it does not create a disk image but just backs up files & folders or does it do both but the imaging part has been deprecated?

The files and folders part can be set up to make a system image at the same time, but the two are quite separate functions and can be used independently.

Try3 said:
MS have not told us to stop using the folders & files backup part of it but, as Bree pointed out, that was always a lousy utility.

It's a really poor files backup solution, creating a backup set of multiple zip files, each one no larger than 200MB. Trying to find and restore a single file from such a backup set manually is like searching for a needle in a haystack - doubly so if it's a large file that spans several .zip files.

Bree · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
I‘m constantly being told on another forum that Windows 7 backup & restore is still recommended by Microsoft

Starting with Windows 8 Microsoft's suggested way to back up files/folders was to use File History. With Windows 10 MS started to suggest OneDrive as their preferred method along with File History. Backup & Restore was only recommended if you needed to restore files from any older backups you may have made. Here's the Windows 10 Backup page in Settings:

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

Bree said:
Starting with Windows 8 Microsoft's suggested way to back up files/folders was to use File History. With Windows 1o MS started to suggest OneDrive as their preferred method. Backup &b Restore was only recommended for restoring any old backups you may have made.

View attachment 53394

Thanks @Bree. This is what I keep telling the person but he won’t accept it & keeps asking for official proof that it’s a holdover from Win 7/8 in order to restore old backups & not recommended.

Bree · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
Thanks @Bree. This is what I keep telling the person but he won’t accept it & keeps asking for official proof that it’s a holdover from Win 7/8 in order to restore old backups & not recommended.

I think the Backup page in Windows 10 can't be any clearer. It only suggests using 'Backup & Restore (Windows 7)' to restore your older backups, not to make new ones.

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

True, but even that isn’t enough for him it seems.

Haydon · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
True, but even that isn’t enough for him it seems.

Let him to do some test restores.

If that's the only backup tool he knows, even that won't be enough (if your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail) But if he has comparisons, then letting him do some test restores 'may be enough'

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

Haydon said:
Let him to do some test restores.

If that's the only backup tool he knows, even that won't be enough (if your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail) But if he has comparisons, then letting him do some test restores 'may be enough'

He says he’s successfully restored several times.
I’m considering the future with recommending Macrium & not Windows backup. Once Windows backup is completely removed - & I believe it will be - he along with others who use it will be stuck.

Haydon · Feb 22, 2023

@Bastet Why do you care?

The old WBU tools may still be around in W12 for people like him

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

@Haydon, Thanks. I personally don’t care but the user seems to be one of those who seems happy to leave me feedback over the littlest thing &/or report me to moderators claiming my replies are incorrect yet doesn’t reply to the threads himself.

Haydon · Feb 22, 2023

Well, there is no reasoning with a nutcase.

I see on this support forum some people running around with self-inflicted problems.

The former has an outward projection, the latter has an inward projection, but it is really the same bananas curved outward/inward, who cares?

Bastet · Feb 22, 2023

@Haydon That’s true.

Thank you all for the advice.

cereberus · Feb 22, 2023

Bastet said:
@Haydon, Thanks. I personally don’t care but the user seems to be one of those who seems happy to leave me feedback over the littlest thing &/or report me to moderators claiming my replies are incorrect yet doesn’t reply to the threads himself.

Always remember Dilbert's wisest words:

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then they beat you with experience!

Bastet · Feb 23, 2023

Wise words @cereberus

Advice required.

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