After I set up Hotmail passkeys can I still use the password to log in?

Judy in Texas · Friday at 3:21 PM

BruceR said:
Passwords are only being deleted from Microsoft Authenticator:

Yes.

Thank you. That is a great relief. As far as I know, I have never used Microsoft Authenticator anyway.

BruceR · Friday at 3:25 PM

glasskuter said:
@BruceR Did you bother to read the 1Password article that detailed what customers would have availability to this.?

Yes, I did.

Did you bother to read Microsoft's Windows Blog that says it's been available to Insiders in the Beta Channel for two weeks?

Also see Beta Release: 1Password now supports Windows 11 Passkeys!

TairikuOkami · Friday at 3:28 PM

If you use MS account, 11 will use it regardless, so you do not have to worry about it. Windows will it store it for you.
I hate insecure passkeys, I avoid them whenever I can, but 11 forces it and it can be use to login to any MS service.

BruceR · Friday at 3:52 PM

TairikuOkami said:
I hate insecure passkeys, I avoid them whenever I can, but 11 forces it and it can be use to login to any MS service.

What's insecure about passkeys, and how does Windows force them?

(Only the default for new Microsoft accounts has changed to passkey.)

glasskuter · Friday at 4:08 PM

BruceR said:
Did you bother to read Microsoft's Windows Blog that says it's been available to Insiders in the Beta Channel for two weeks?

Yes I did, but that article is much more vague than the one directly from 1Password which went straight to the point with more detail of what its partnership with MS involved. It specifically states the agreement is for MS services used by enterprise,Microsoft Sentinel and Microsoft Entra ID.
Hopefully, I am misunderstanding it, but I learned a long time ago that MS leaves a lot of questions in its articles.

But look at it another way. 1Password is a PAID service. It has no free option. Any partnership with MS involving residential customers will require someone to pay for their service. Whereas with enterprise already paying MS for both Microsoft Sentinel and Microsoft Entra ID , the cost can be passed onto the enterprise customer. Do you honestly think MS will absorb that cost to HOME users. I certainly do not unless they go to Windows as a subscription and charge us for using the OS.

That article you referred to regarding beta release comes from 1Password too and says:
This integration comes with our new MSIX installer for 1Password for Windows. It uses the new MSIX technology to better support all the functionality Windows 11 offers, including system-level passkeys.
That indicates to me for existing and new 1Password customers the functionality can be used from within windows. But somone's gotta pay.

Something else, there are tons of other companies that sell password managers. If every single windows 11 user on the planet got this 1Password feature, ALL these companies would be put out of business. For MS to do so would be the biggest anti-trust suit in history and MS would lose.. They may end up in one anyway.

Judy in Texas · Friday at 4:11 PM

TairikuOkami said:
If you use MS account, 11 will use it regardless, so you do not have to worry about it. Windows will it store it for you.
I hate insecure passkeys, I avoid them whenever I can, but 11 forces it and it can be use to login to any MS service.

This is the kind of place where my understanding goes off the rails. I know you know what you are doing, but I don't understand "insecure passkeys." Plus, I thought a passkey was for a device. So I fail follow the trail to how W11 will force (I understand that word) it, and it can be used on any device. Sigh.

Judy in Texas · Friday at 4:20 PM

glasskuter said:
OK, let me explain it as to how the basics of my password manager works. It has options you can set to make it work for you. I have used Roboform for many, many, years
I install the paid version of Roboform from a download I get from Roboform and assign it a very difficult master password.(Mine is 18 characters, lower&uppercase, numbers, and symbols) I have also assigned Roboform a passkey for each machine
I then install the Roboform extension into Firefox from Firefox add-on store and enable it. It puts a little green icon at the top of Firefox.
Since I also use Edge, I install the Roboform extension from the Edge add-on store. Edge gets the same little green icon. It also puts that same little green icon in your task tray so you can set options.

Using either browser, the first time I go to any site that requires credentials (let's say it's Amazon) and log in, A Roboform popup asks me if I want to save the info into Roboform so I say yes. (It also pops up if I change any or part of my login info) It will ask me for my master password or passkey. I only have to enter this once per user session. Roboform gives you options how often you want to be required to enter this information eg: Every time, once a day, every 12 hrs, etc.
I can then close the Edge site and open Firefox. When I click on the green icon, I see credentials saved for Amazon. I can click on it, Roboform immediately goes to Amazon and logs me in automatically. I rarely use bookmarks anymore but use Roboform instead for sites that require a login.

I've used Roboform so long I have over a hundred sites with saved login information. I've even organized some of them in folders. Once you get numerous passwords entered into Roboform, it gives you options how you want to see them...most used, recent, etc or you can see all your passwords listed alphabetically.

You can also login to Roboform servers and get you logins so if your house burns down and takes all your computers, When you install it on a new computer you info will be there. I use it on 3 ios devices and 4 PCs. They all stay in sync.

Hope this helps. Other password managers may be a little different..

Thank you so much for this. So, if I get Roboform, since it has a password I can sign in to it on any computer. From there I could reach my email by asking Roboform to log in to it? Even on a new computer?

BTW, I am letting my W10 Dell go, and will want to be able to use my email on its replacement, which is not expected to arrive before the end of the month.

One more question: I get some mail messages of selected articles from subscriptions to such as my newspaper. If I click on one of the articles the computer logs in, enabled by cookies from the source. (This meets the publisher's desire to see that the person who paid for the subscription is the one who wants to read it.)

If Roboform is on, will *it* log me in, bypassing the cookie? That would be a great help because I would be able to switch from the desktop to the laptop in the evening without having to log in to the source, then log back in to the desktop when I changed back. Additionally, as these subscription providers transfer from passwords to passkeys, I could just add them to Roboform and read them on two devices in the same way.

TairikuOkami · Friday at 4:34 PM

Judy in Texas said:
but I don't understand "insecure passkeys."

Passkey skips 2FA, it is like password + MFA in one. It is supposed to make things simpler, not safer.
A verified device = passkey = hacker's dream. It is so easy to steal a session, that is almost laughable.

When you login from a different device: Is it you? Password: Yes. Really? 2FA: Yes!
When you login from a different device: Is it you? Passkey: Yes. Really? Passkey: Yes, stop asking stupid questions!
According to MS, if it is your device, so it is YOU, you would not steal your own device, would you? So it must be you!

Judy in Texas said:
So I fail follow the trail to how W11 will force (I understand that word) it

When I remove MS passkey, it will just recreate it, because according to MS, passkey is better than MFA.

Judy in Texas · Friday at 4:46 PM

TairikuOkami said:
Passkey skips 2FA, it is like password + MFA in one. It is supposed to make things simpler, not safer.
A verified device = passkey = hacker's dream. It is so easy to steal a session, that is almost laughable.

When I remove MS passkey, it will just recreate it, because according to MS, passkey is better than MFA.

Thank you.

TraderGary · Friday at 4:56 PM

Judy in Texas said:
Gary, how will you sign in to a microsoft account on a new computer, once there are no passwords?

I've already gotten a new computer and I've already done it. When I got the new computer, I logged in with my eMail and Microsoft Authenticator on my phone verified my login. Then I set up Windows Hello. Then I downloaded 1Password and set it up. Then I logged in to my Microsoft Account using my Passkey stored in 1Password. Smooth and no problem.

TraderGary · Friday at 5:04 PM

@TairikuOkami Passkeys are secure because there's nothing for the hacker to steal.

Judy in Texas · Friday at 5:45 PM

TairikuOkami said:
Passkey skips 2FA, it is like password + MFA in one. It is supposed to make things simpler, not safer.
A verified device = passkey = hacker's dream. It is so easy to steal a session, that is almost laughable.

When you login from a different device: Is it you? Password: Yes. Really? 2FA: Yes!
When you login from a different device: Is it you? Passkey: Yes. Really? Passkey: Yes, stop asking stupid questions!
According to MS, if it is your device, so it is YOU, you would not steal your own device, would you? So it must be you!

When I remove MS passkey, it will just recreate it, because according to MS, passkey is better than MFA.

I understand now. Thank you. Plus, if I use a password manager and put my passkey in it, I am back to an account protected by a password. Which I will have used just that past time I signed in. Which may have been set to "stay signed in."

If someone steals my laptop out of my hotel room and my passwords are recorded separately from my device (as mine are, and are either with me or as tucked away as they can be in my stuff in a hotel room) they have a device, but me not being a spy or having industrial secrets, it is probably not worth their time to go past my browser history to see all of my interactions recently with elevenforum or the searches I have made for local restaurants. But if I had a password manager that included all of my devices, that one password protects them all, right? And we have all been told that passwords are insecure. So now I am to put everything under one password??? Wouldn't it be better to have a separate password for everything that I use money for, or care about?

Or maybe we (humans) should have thought this whole thing through a little more at the start...

Obviously this now belongs in the Chillout Room.

TraderGary · Friday at 6:22 PM

Unfortunately, the blind leading the blind.

retiredat44 · Friday at 6:28 PM

all the password nonsense,, upsets me... many sites also try to force me to use 2 factor authorization... I have also have IDme, Gov ID for vets. and I still get forced to two factor authorization! pissed off! Hotmail pissed me off ages and ages ago, forced me to change my password all the time.. none of their business! Al crazy B.S. !

antspants · Friday at 7:51 PM

It has nothing to do with AI. It has to do with helping you to protect yourself and a company protecting itself against liability.
I believe you need to look at 2FA with a fresh set of eyes. If you fight it you will just be… grumpy.
It’s simple if you follow the instructions and once you’ve done that, it’s pretty much the same for all sites.

Your Gov ID for vets for instance, the Govt needs to protect itself against being compromised. It also needs to protect itself from people who right up to the end, complain about change and when their identity is stolen, turn around and blame the Govt for not taking better precautions — regardless that the precautions were already in place.

Sorry to sound harsh.

retiredat44 · Saturday at 6:44 PM

antspants said:
It has nothing to do with AI. It has to do with helping you to protect yourself and a company protecting itself against liability.
I believe you need to look at 2FA with a fresh set of eyes. If you fight it you will just be… grumpy.
It’s simple if you follow the instructions and once you’ve done that, it’s pretty much the same for all sites.

Your Gov ID for vets for instance, the Govt needs to protect itself against being compromised. It also needs to protect itself from people who right up to the end, complain about change and when their identity is stolen, turn around and blame the Govt for not taking better precautions — regardless that the precautions were already in place.

Sorry to sound harsh.

IDme used on those sites, one more way to log in, as they have been shutting down other way to logging... used to use Deers, which still works. I am not a gov employee. IDme is suppose to be a way to vet people for a one ID for all uses. You should not have to go through more hoops. I am saying stop throwing al the blocks in front of those that went through extensive ID checks. Like the DMV. insanity gone wild.

antspants · Saturday at 6:50 PM

retiredat44 said:
IDme used on those sites, one more way to log in, as they have been shutting down other way to logging... used to use Deers, which still works. I am not a gov employee. IDme is suppose to be a way to vet people for a one ID for all uses. You should not have to go through more hoops. I am saying stop throwing al the blocks in front of those that went through extensive ID checks. Like the DMV. insanity gone wild.

I can sympathise that you feel it’s getting a little complicated. I suppose calling them to have them sort out and guide you would be like trying to call POTUS. Probably never get through and get stuck in a loop.

Coincidently, I just went six rounds with MS Authenticator trying to add a new Microsoft Account. Turned out that it was me though.

And your right (insert your name here, I’ll call you 44) they should pick a lane and stick with it.

What I don’t want to use, 44, is passkeys.

After I set up Hotmail passkeys can I still use the password to log in?

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