BSOD while doing "save as" in a program

Buddy · Sep 6, 2024

Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 10
16BG RAM, 500GB SSD, i5-1240p CPU all bone-stock out of the box.
Two external USB HDD and misc. USB sticks connected via CalDigit TS4 dock
HP M277dw printer connected via WiFi
500 mbps internet connection via AT&T fiber
Windows 11 Pro 23H2 OS Build 22631.4037, updates are turned ON and confirmed each Patch Tuesday
Other than updates, everything pretty stable. I haven't added new software or hardware in probably months, other than maybe a new USB stick a few months back.

I was saving a file using "Save As" from a program. In the middle of changing to a different directory from the default (most recently used), behavior got weird. Lots of little error boxes (from Windows or Explorer, I'd guess) about "unable to complete request" or something similar. I managed to close all the open applications and then powered down. When I tried to restart, it was really slow, then gave the BSOD and said it was restarting. It failed to restart and gave another BSOD and said it was restarting again. This time, it worked.

This all just happened a short time ago. Haven't tried another "Save As" yet, but will do so shortly.

The BSOD said the stopcode is "clock watchdog timeout".

I have a Macrium image from 8/13/24 and daily incrementals since then. TBH I've never tried a Macrium restore and would be very hesitant indeed to do that unless it's truly essential.

THINKPADX1BF-(2024-09-06_20-30-04).zip

drive.google.com

zbook · Sep 6, 2024

Consider restoring an image and returning to a known stable time.

And / or test all drives.

1) Run Tuneup plus > post a share link

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/bsod-crashes-debugging/360139d1645183596-batch-files-use-bsod-debugging-tuneup_plus_log.zip

Batch files for use in BSOD debugging - Windows 10 Help Forums

Information This thread is for use by the BSOD team to store batch files that can be used to collect additional data, fix settings or anything else that is useful in debugging BSOD problems in Windows 10. The way I see it working is the first

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Batch files for use in BSOD debugging - Windows 10 Help Forums

Information This thread is for use by the BSOD team to store batch files that can be used to collect additional data, fix settings or anything else that is useful in debugging BSOD problems in Windows 10. The way I see it working is the first

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2) Run these tests on all drives: > take pictures > post images or share links

a) Sea Tools Long generic test

https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-content/support-content/downloads/seatools/_shared/downloads/100869623_B.pdf

https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-content/support-content/downloads/seatools/_shared/downloads/SeaToolsWindowsInstaller.exe

b) HD Sentinel:

Hard Disk Sentinel - HDD health and temperature monitoring

Monitoring hard disk health and temperature. Test and repair HDD problems, predict disk failure.

www.hdsentinel.com

a) Overview
b) Temperature
c) SMART

Code:

Event[45367]
  Log Name: System
  Source: Microsoft-Windows-BitLocker-Driver
  Date: 2024-09-06T20:21:09.2040000Z
  Event ID: 24641
  Task: N/A
  Level: Error
  Opcode: Info


  Keyword: N/A
  User: S-1-5-18
  User Name: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
An unexpected error was encountered attempting to retrieve the BitLocker volume master key during restart.

Code:

Event[26481]
  Log Name: System
  Source: Microsoft-Windows-Ntfs
  Date: 2024-09-02T21:10:01.7390000Z
  Event ID: 140
  Task: N/A
  Level: Warning
  Opcode: Info  g
  Keyword: N/A
  User: S-1-5-21-799306366-801281417-1681656888-1001
  User Name: THINKPADX1BF\buddy
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur in VolumeId: D:, DeviceName: \Device\HarddiskVolume7.

           Failure status: A device which does not exist was specified.

           Device GUID: {1ed7b7a7-84ef-f5d1-fa26-df343c4cc49e}
           Device manufacturer: Seagate
           Device model: Expansion HDD
           Device revision: 1801
           Device serial number:     00000000NAC6GJ6F                        
           Bus type: USB

           Adapter serial number:
 

Event[26482]
  Log Name: System
  Source: Microsoft-Windows-Ntfs
  Date: 2024-09-02T21:10:01.7630000Z
  Event ID: 140
  Task: N/A
  Level: Warning
  Opcode: Info  g
  Keyword: N/A
  User: S-1-5-21-799306366-801281417-1681656888-1001
  User Name: THINKPADX1BF\buddy
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur in VolumeId: D:, DeviceName: \Device\HarddiskVolume7.

           Failure status: A device which does not exist was specified.

           Device GUID: {1ed7b7a7-84ef-f5d1-fa26-df343c4cc49e}
           Device manufacturer: Seagate
           Device model: Expansion HDD
           Device revision: 1801
           Device serial number:     00000000NAC6GJ6F                        
           Bus type: USB

           Adapter serial number:
 

Event[26483]
  Log Name: System
  Source: Microsoft-Windows-Ntfs
  Date: 2024-09-02T21:10:02.5010000Z
  Event ID: 140
  Task: N/A
  Level: Warning
  Opcode: Info  g
  Keyword: N/A
  User: S-1-5-18
  User Name: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur in VolumeId: D:, DeviceName: \Device\HarddiskVolume7.

           Failure status: A device which does not exist was specified.

           Device GUID: {1ed7b7a7-84ef-f5d1-fa26-df343c4cc49e}
           Device manufacturer: Seagate
           Device model: Expansion HDD
           Device revision: 1801
           Device serial number:     00000000NAC6GJ6F                        
           Bus type: USB

           Adapter serial number:

Code:

Event[26479]
  Log Name: System
  Source: disk
  Date: 2024-09-02T21:10:01.7040000Z
  Event ID: 51
  Task: N/A
  Level: Warning
  Opcode: N/A
  Keyword: Classic,
  User: N/A
  User Name: N/A
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\DR2 during a paging operation.

Event[26480]
  Log Name: System
  Source: disk
  Date: 2024-09-02T21:10:01.7040000Z
  Event ID: 51
  Task: N/A
  Level: Warning
  Opcode: N/A
  Keyword: Classic,
  User: N/A
  User Name: N/A
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\DR2 during a paging operation.

Code:

Event[11865]
  Log Name: System
  Source: disk
  Date: 2024-08-30T14:50:03.2900000Z
  Event ID: 11
  Task: N/A
  Level: Error
  Opcode: N/A
  Keyword: Classic,
  User: N/A
  User Name: N/A
  Computer: ThinkPadX1BF
  Description:
The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk5\DR5.

Code:

------------------------
Disk & DVD/CD-ROM Drives
------------------------
      Drive: C:
 Free Space: 155.1 GB
Total Space: 486.1 GB
File System: NTFS
      Model: WD PC SN740 SDDQNQD-512G-1001

      Drive: D:
 Free Space: 2434.9 GB
Total Space: 5723.0 GB
File System: NTFS
      Model: Seagate Expansion HDD SCSI Disk Device

      Drive: E:
 Free Space: 354.1 GB
Total Space: 953.9 GB
File System: NTFS
      Model: Seagate FA GoFlex Desk USB Device

      Drive: G:
 Free Space: 54.7 GB
Total Space: 204.8 GB
File System: FAT32
      Model: n/a

Buddy · Sep 6, 2024

@zbook To be clear, the BSOD happened during restart, twice in fact. I didn't get it when the Save As went haywire, nor while all the error messages were popping up. I successfully closed all the open files and programs, then shut down. That said...

What is the significance of an error attempting to retrieve the BitLocker volume master key? (outside my tiny skill set)

zbook · Sep 6, 2024

Make sure that you have the key.

Post a share link:

manage-bde -status

RJARRRPCGP · Sep 7, 2024

Buddy said:
The BSOD said the stopcode is "clock watchdog timeout".

That means CPU core not stable! It can mean a failing processor, a failing motherboard or PSU. It means Windows detected that a CPU core failed to respond when it expected a response from a CPU core.

You also have drive I/O-related errors! This could mean a bad motherboard or a bad PSU.

Looks like a motherboard or PSU problem, with all those errors. It possibly can be degraded capacitors. Bad caps are the most common in power supplies, while in the '00s, they were both on motherboards and on PSUs! Now, it's PSUs, followed by motherboards, where the PSU should be checked first.

Topcat, over at badcaps. net, would say that bad caps are extremely likely. IIRC, he has said that it has the tendency to cause drive errors as well.
I honestly think both a CPU core-related error and a drive I/O error during the same month would extremely likely be caused by bad caps.

The cause would be the following:
Irregular voltages.

But, it's a laptop, and laptops are more difficult to repair!

Buddy · Sep 7, 2024

@zbook Thanks for posting what you found in the V2 Log Collector results. FWIW, I've been a bit wary of the D: drive lately. Intermittently, it fails to restart from sleep. Also odd behavior on large file copies where data transfer is slow for a minute or two, then gets faster.

I'll run all the tests soon.

Windows Defender flags Tuneup, so I didn't run it. Does it actually change anything or just check and record?

zbook · Sep 7, 2024

All of the scripts by design flag AV and require manual overrides unless the posted instructions are precisely followed.

Batch files for use in BSOD debugging - Windows 10 Help Forums

Information This thread is for use by the BSOD team to store batch files that can be used to collect additional data, fix settings or anything else that is useful in debugging BSOD problems in Windows 10. The way I see it working is the first

www.tenforums.com

Part Two

Run the batch file

To run the batch file, open File Explorer, navigate to where you downloaded the batch file, and then double-click on it or right-click on it and select Open.

DO NOT run it directly from a Download, as your anti-virus may object and stop it running.
Always download it to your hard disk/SSD and then run it there.

RJARRRPCGP · Sep 7, 2024

It's the event IDs 51 and 11, along with the "CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT" BSOD that has me thinking what I posted above.

zbook · Sep 8, 2024

When available update the progress with post #2.

Buddy · Sep 8, 2024

Here's the Tuneup log

Tuneup_log 2024-09-08 at 08-50-57.zip

drive.google.com

I got into control panel and found that Bitlocker is enabled for the C:\ drive (internal SSD) but not the two external USB drives. It's been well over two years since I set up this PC, but I don't recall enabling Bitlocker during that process, nor did I mention it in the fairly detailed notes I took during that. Is it possible it was set as a default?

I printed the Bitlocker key and saved it to a file. Does the message in post #2 refer to the C:\ drive or one of the external drives?

Also, I'm puzzled by this message "An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\DR2 during a paging operation.". Isn't Harddisk2 the external D:\ drive? Why would a paging operation be performed on it instead of C:\?

I'll run the Seagate tests next. Is HD Sentinel a one-time run or is it running in the background always?

And finally, I already had Crystal Disk 8 installed, so I ran it on all three, if that's any help.

Buddy · Sep 8, 2024

Small error in my preceding post. Hard disk 2 is the E drive. Still doesn't make sense to my tiny brain why paging would be happening on it.

Long generic test for the C: drive is complete and shows "passed". 97% life and 21.19 TBW. Still running for D: drive, the much larger and slower HDD. At 3% after nearly an hour. At this rate, I'll be here til Christmas,

zbook · Sep 8, 2024

Please make sure that

a) images or share links are posted for all steps / tests > Sea Tools, HD Sentinel, etc.

b) links do not have restrictions:

Sign in

to continue to Google Drive

Buddy · Sep 8, 2024

I haven't found a log of the completed long generic test of the C:\ drive. Under /Utility/Manage Logs, I did find a way to export two CSV logs. One is just simple start/stop times and status of all operations since I opened the program. The other is a detailed list of all the findings and events since opening the program (all drives, in time sequence), including the Short Self Tests that I ran just to get a feel for SeaTools. Hope this is what you need - if not, tell me how to get it. Otherwise, I'll upload that to Google Drive and post a link when it's done.

This is going to take a while. The long generic test of D:\ is 5 hours 40 minutes so far and is at 48%.

zbook · Sep 8, 2024

1) Post a Tuneup plus share link that can be opened without the required sign in

2) See post #2:

2) Run these tests on all drives: > take pictures > post images or share links

a) Sea Tools Long generic test

Buddy · Sep 8, 2024

Try the Tuneup log again. I fixed the sharing on it.

Tuneup_log 2024-09-08 at 08-50-57.zip

drive.google.com

Still waiting on SeaTools. Now at 60% on D, yet to do E. I'll upload the logs when it's done and send a link.

HD Sentinel will probably be tomorrow.

zbook · Sep 8, 2024

1) Post share links for:

a) Sea Tools Long generic tests
b) HD Sentinel
c) post #4

2) The BIOS Version/Date LENOVO N3AET71W (1.36 ), 1/31/2023

Upgrade the BIOS to the most up to date BIOS

3) Run the Lenovo UEFI hardware diagnostics overnight while sleeping > take pictures > post images or share links displaying the tests performed with results

https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/thinkvantage_en/ldiag_v04.34.001_bootable_uefi_ug.pdf

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-x-series-laptops/thinkpad-x1-carbon-10th-gen-type-21cb-21cc/21cb/21cb000kus/pf45fafv/solutions/bootableusb

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-x-series-laptops/thinkpad-x1-carbon-10th-gen-type-21cb-21cc/21cb/21cb000kus/pf45fafv/downloads/ds030861-lenovo-uefi-diagnostics-bootable-usb-create-it-on-windows-os-desktops-notebooks-workstations?category=Diagnostic

Buddy · Sep 9, 2024

Here are the logs from SeaTools after running long generic tests on C: (internal SSD) and D

external USB HDD).
THINKPADX1BF_SMART_Attribute_09_Sep_2024_06_56_33.csv, THINKPADX1BF_SMART_Attribute_09_Sep_2024_06_56_06.csv, THINKPADX1BF_Event_09_Sep_2024_06_56_33.csv, THINKPADX1BF_Event_09_Sep_2024_06_56_06.csv

Buddy · Sep 9, 2024

The SeaTools logs show multiple failed short tests of the E: drive (Seagate 1TB FreeAgent GoFlex, new in 2011). Then, while I was running the long generic test of the D: drive, the E: drive disconnected. Now, the E: drive won't connect, even after several tries of shutting down and restarting the PC and unplugging/replugging both power and USB cables to the E: drive (at both the drive and the TS4).

For maybe the last month or so, it had been making a brief faint buzz each time it restarted from sleep. Guessing that it has now failed and that the onset of that might have been the cause of the initial misbehavior (no BSOD) and the two BSODs which came with the subsequent restart. FWIW, before it disconnected, SeaTools showed internal temp of 45C for it.

If it's dead, the good news is that it served only as a redundant backup layer to D:, which is my primary archival and backup drive. There wasn't any content on E: that was unique to it.

Here's a screen shot from manage-bde -status for the internal SSD and external USB HDD.

Yet to come-BIOS update, HD Sentinel runs, Lenovo UEFI diagnostic.

zbook · Sep 9, 2024

Run HD Sentinel (all drives) (results are instantaneous) > take pictures > post images or share links

Buddy · Sep 9, 2024

HD Sentinel results for C and D attached. E still won't connect. Screen shots of overview, temperature, and SMART. Text file of full report.

BSOD while doing "save as" in a program

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