Can I clone System drive A to a partition on Backup drive B, then clone from the Backup partition back to System drive A?

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

I think this can be done, and easily, but am not in a position to "experiment" right now.
I would much appreciate advice from more experienced users.
Please refer to the simple diagrams below.

I have three computers: Win7 Win10 Win11
Each has a 500GB System drive
and a 500GB Data drive.

I want to purchase a 4TB HDD to use as a central Backup drive, via USB enclosure.
I intend to create six 500GB partitions on the Backup drive.

I will use DiskGenius software, but Macrium Reflect, EaseUS, etc. would apply.

I want to CLONE each System drive to its own partition on the Backup drive.
I want to COPY each Data drive to its own partition on the Backup drive.

When any of the three Windows operating systems becomes corrupted:
I want to CLONE that System partition back to its original System drive.

When data on any of the three data drives becomes corrupted:
I want to COPY that Data partition back to its original Data drive.

Froggie · Mar 23, 2024

It's not quite that simple as you'll hear shortly from various Forum members...

RD Mercer · Mar 23, 2024

Froggie said:
It's not quite that simple as you'll hear shortly from various Forum members...

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Froggie said:
It's not quite that simple as you'll hear shortly from various Forum members...

Nothing's ever simple. I've been trying to find "one simple answer" to this for weeks. I can't tell you how many endless threads and posts and articles I've read that go round and round and round, discussing every possible nuance of every technical consideration in the world.

I'm just looking for "the answer" for how to accomplish the procedure I set out in my question, or something similar. I don't want to read a hundred permutations on what might apply under some obscure conditions that don't pertain. My parameters are pretty simple, so I'm hoping for simple advice on how to do only what I'm trying to accomplish.

Ghot · Mar 23, 2024

@BothHands

Don't clone.

Use Macrium to image each physical disk, and save each of those images to your 4TB external.
Then when you're ready... just "restore" the images to their respective drives.

Froggie · Mar 23, 2024

The simpleset answer is yes, and the suggested "imaging" answer above is also correct, saving you a lot of storage space. Many imaging apps are available to do this for you, one of the more recent entries in this area is the Hasleo Backup Suite, which is also FREE, BTW... and it can CLONE as well (if you insist).

"We dunt need no stinkin' nuances here..."

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Ghot said:
@BothHands

Don't clone.

Use Macrium to image each physical disk, and save each of those images to your 4TB external.
Then when you're ready... just "restore" the images to their respective drives.

With 11,000+ posts, U DA MAN. =D
I absolutely appreciate your very simple, direct answer. And the helpful screencapture.

But why do you advise against cloning? I ask because twice in the past (several years ago) I had backup files that refused to restore. I ended up SOL and had rebuild the entire system in both instances.

I'm not arguing this point. I'm just saying that cloning seems (to me, so far) to be direct, and simple, and easy to verify/test.

Simply swap the target drive in for the original source drive. Boot the system, and if everything works, stash that target drive in a safe place until you clone again in a few weeks or a month.

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Froggie said:
The simpleset answer is yes, and the suggested "imaging" answer above is also correct, saving you a lot of storage space. Many imaging apps are available to do this for you, one of the more recent entries in this area is the Hasleo Backup Suite, which is also FREE, BTW... and it can CLONE as well (if you insist).

"We dunt need no stinkin' nuances here..."

Many thanks for the insights, and for packaging them so "concisely." =D
And thanks for the suggestion re. Hasleo Backup Suite. I'll look into it.

Love the reference to "Treasure of the Sierra Madre"! HA!
Badjezz?! We don' need no steenkeen badjezz!
Looks and sounds a lot like our southern border...

Ghot · Mar 23, 2024

BothHands said:
With 11,000+ posts, U DA MAN. =D
I absolutely appreciate your very simple, direct answer. And the helpful screencapture.

But why do you advise against cloning? I ask because twice in the past (several years ago) I had backup files that refused to restore. I ended up SOL and had rebuild the entire system in both instances.

I'm not arguing this point. I'm just saying that cloning seems (to me, so far) to be direct, and simple, and easy to verify/test.

Simply swap the target drive in for the original source drive. Boot the system, and if everything works, stash that target drive in safe place until you clone again in a few weeks or a month.

It's up to you ofc.

I've always imaged rather than clone. Never had a problem, 24 years straight.
Another advantage to imaging is that the images are approx. 1/2 the size of a clone, at default compression settings.

I guess the best advice I can give is to do whatever you feel most comfortable with.

And... @Froggie 's reference is from Blazing Saddles.

In Treasure of the Sierra Madre, it's slightly different...

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

SIW2 · Mar 23, 2024

The issue with cloning your 3 os from different disks to the one 4tb disk would be the esp partitions.

Not hard to work around.

Have one esp partition on the 4tb with bcd entries pointing at all 3 os partitions on the 4tb.

I suggest using the esp partion from the win 11 disk, then add the other os entries to it.

1. First migrate the win11 disk esp, os partition and data partition onto the 4tb.

Can do that with diskgenius os migration ( it will autoselect the partitions needed by windows 11 , click "manage partitions" to add the data partition to the migration. It will probably migrate the hidden msr partition as well if there is one, which is fine. )

the 4tb would then have

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition|

2. next create a partition big enough for the win10 os and use wincopy to copy the win10 os onto that partition ( it will also create the bcd entry in the win11 esp bcd that you already migrated )

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os|

3. then clone the data partition from win10 disk - use diskgenius for that

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition

4. then create a partition big enough for the win7 os and use wincopy to copy the win7 os onto that partition ( it will also create the bcd entry in the win11 esp bcd that you already migrated )

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition| win7 os

5. then clone the data partition from win7 disk - use diskgenius for that

The final result:

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition| win7 os| win7 disk data partition

zbook · Mar 23, 2024

There are pro and con links for clone vs image:

Disk Cloning vs Disk Imaging | Macrium Reflect

In this blog post, we explain the difference between disk imaging and disk cloning and which purpose each serves when it comes to your everyday IT tasks.

www.macrium.com

Backup, imaging and cloning - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Ghot said:
It's up to you ofc.

I've always imaged rather than clone. Never had a problem, 24 years straight.
Another advantage to imaging is that the images are approx. 1/2 the size of a clone, at default compression settings.

I guess the best advice I can give is to do whatever you feel most comfortable with.

Thanks, and point taken. I'll weigh both options as there doesn't seem to be any specific reason to go one way or the other.
My past difficulties involved a paid version of Paragon Hard Disk Manager. I stopped using it in light of the failed restores, and my impression is that they fell from grace since that time. Now I'm relying on free software (DiskGenius in particular, or the final free version of Macrium Reflect) and that seems like it might introduce problems. Again, thank you.

And thanks for the Blazing Saddles link. I'm sure I saw that when it was first released, and that condensed version stayed in my head. It's more concise than the original. I love both versions. Too good, either way! =D

Ghot · Mar 23, 2024

@BothHands

You could always cheat, like I do....

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Ghot said:
@BothHands

You could always cheat, like I do....

View attachment 91255

I hated being FORCED to go from Win7 to Win10. So for about two years my main PC had the same thing!
One drive running Win7 Pro and the other running Win10 Pro.

And speaking of cheating, I used two regular household light switches to determine which drive would be operational. I simply cut the red wire going to the Win 7 drive (SATA III) and ran that wire through one light switch. Cut the red wire going to the Win11 drive (SATA III) and ran that wire through the other switch.

Not sure what would have happened if both switches were on at once. =O
I was very careful, and managed to avoid that.

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

SIW2 said:
The issue with cloning your 4 os from different disks to the one 4tb disk would be the esp partitions.

Not hard to work around.

Have one esp partition on the 4tb with bcd entries pointing at all 4 os partitions on the 4tb.

I suggest using the esp partion from the win 11 disk, then add the other os entries using win11 bcdboot.

First migrate the win11 disk esp, os partition and data partition onto the 4tb. Can do that with diskgenius os migration ( it will autoselect the partitions needed by windows 11 , click "manage partitions" to add the data partition to the migration.

Greetings, @SIW2 !
I don't know what that means.
Oh, no! Here we go again... =O =D

I'll try to educate myself. Will probably return with obtuse questions. You know the drill... Hahahaha

Ghot · Mar 23, 2024

BothHands said:
I hated being FORCED to go from Win7 to Win10. So for about two years my main PC had the same thing!
One drive running Win7 Pro and the other running Win10 Pro.

And speaking of cheating, I used two regular household light switches to determine which drive would be operational. I simply cut the red wire going to the Win 7 drive (SATA III) and ran that wire through one light switch. Cut the red wire going to the Win11 drive (SATA III) and ran that wire through the other switch.

Not sure what would have happened if both switches were on at once. =O
I was very careful, and managed to avoid that.

SATA power 4-way switch

RD Mercer · Mar 23, 2024

I wouldn’t dare bring up the word duplicator.

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

zbook said:
There are pro and con links for clone vs image:

Disk Cloning vs Disk Imaging | Macrium Reflect

In this blog post, we explain the difference between disk imaging and disk cloning and which purpose each serves when it comes to your everyday IT tasks.

www.macrium.com

Backup, imaging and cloning - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

Ooooo! Thank you @zbook.
I have to leave now, but will study that article carefully.
I wish I had found it weeks ago.
Thanks again.

BothHands · Mar 23, 2024

Ghot said:
SATA power 4-way switch

Yer KILLIN' ME! =D

I won't tell you how carefully I researched and planned how to make my DIY switches. Which wire cut, etc.

SIW2 · Mar 23, 2024

Detailed instructions here

SIW2 said:
View attachment 91256

Have one esp partition on the 4tb with bcd entries pointing at all 3 os partitions on the 4tb.

I suggest using the esp partion from the win 11 disk, then add the other os entries to it.

1. First migrate the win11 disk esp, os partition and data partition onto the 4tb.

Can do that with diskgenius os migration ( it will autoselect the partitions needed by windows 11 , click "manage partitions" to add the data partition to the migration. It will probably also migrate the hidden msr partition if there is one, which is fine. )

the 4tb would then have

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition|

2. next create a partition big enough for the win10 os and use wincopy to copy the win10 os onto that partition ( it will also create the bcd entry in the win11 esp bcd that you already migrated )

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os|

3. then clone the data partition from win10 disk - use diskgenius for that

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition

4. then create a partition big enough for the win7 os and use wincopy to copy the win7 os onto that partition ( it will also create the bcd entry in the win11 esp bcd that you already migrated )

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition| win7 os

5. then clone the data partition from win7 disk - use diskgenius for that

The final result:

win11 esp| msr| win11 os| win11 disk data partition| win10 os| win10 disk data partition| win7 os| win7 disk data partition

those are step by step instructions.

For example if you later wanted to migrate win7 from the 4tb to a different disk, can easily be done with diskgenius os migration. ( you can add the win7 data partition to the migration with the "manage partitions" button).

The migrated win7 would have the couple of extra boot menu entries one pointing at win 10 and one pointing at win11 which would be useless .Can easily delete those two in msconfig afterwards