Curious about the REFS file system

ICIT2LOL · Jul 6, 2023

Just as a curiosity point I am wondering if anyone has thoughts on the new filling system - ReFS - Wikipedia.
The fact that will at some when the time comes if one has all their data stored in the NTFS will be able to transfer the data file system to the new system file data?
As I said it is pure curiosity as apparently Windows 12 will make this another mandatory requirement for computers so be forewarned is a real need.

iko22 · Jul 6, 2023

Well, it should bring the end to CHKDSK and the 8.3 file format if your wikipedia article is anything to go by.
It appears that ReFS is available on Windows Server only. Since it is not yet available on desktop editions then it is currently impossible to make the migration. Plus ReFS does not yet support bootable disks or removable disks. I don't know how they are going to get this ready for Win 12, if they are preparing to make it mandatory.
Hers a link to the Microsoft overview:

Resilient File System (ReFS) overview

Learn more about: Resilient File System (ReFS) overview

learn.microsoft.com

Hopachi · Jul 6, 2023

ReFS is non-bootable, at the moment.

I use it on one drive as a data disk, for regular PC use, some older games and VMs are installed on it.
Never had any issues.

rockyanexp · Jul 6, 2023

Seems MS is already testing ReFS boot.
Setup Windows on ReFS

jimbo45 · Jul 6, 2023

rockyanexp said:
Seems MS is already testing ReFS boot.
Setup Windows on ReFS

Its essentially the same file system as used in "Storage spaces" -- which in the past I found very unreliable --at least back on Windows 8/8.1 but on servers it should be resilient.

The other problem to be aware of if you use non Windows NAS type devices for backup etc -- They are unable to read the REFS file system so sharing data is problematic. The Linux kernel may eventually be modified to handle the ReFS system as was the case with NTFS but it's still a proprietary file system so unless Ms publishes an API for access to ReFs one will have to depend on "Reverse Engineering" which carries obvious risks whenever Ms updates the system.

Since this has been around for a long time there must IMO be significant problems in deploying this file system to the consumer versions of Windows. NTFS works, can have large file and data sizes and seems to be essentially stable and doesn't break easily. Servers have a different issue -- speed, efficiency, and ability to handle zillions of simultaneous requests are required -- totallly different to a normal single user home computer system.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 · Jul 6, 2023

Hopachi said:
ReFS is non-bootable, at the moment.

I use it on one drive as a data disk, for regular PC use, some older games and VMs are installed on it.
Never had any issues.

What version of Windows are you running it on -- and is that disk part of a "Storage Space".

Cheers
jimbo

Hopachi · Jul 6, 2023

jimbo45 said:
What version of Windows are you running it on -- and is that disk part of a "Storage Space".

Cheers
jimbo

@jimbo45
It is readible in Pro edition, though you cannot format it in ReFS.
I'm running it in Windows 11 Pro, had it used from Windows 10 Pro and started it back in Windows 8.1 Pro where it was possible to format.

Nowadays you need Pro for Workstations to be able to format in ReFS, if I'm not mistaken.

And no, the drive is NOT part of a Storage Space.
I simply use it as a second Data (D:) disk (ReFS) besides the main system (C:) disk (NTFS), in plain words.

Bree · Jul 6, 2023

ICIT2LOL said:
Just as a curiosity point I am wondering if anyone has thoughts on the new filling system - ReFS - Wikipedia.

ReFS is not that new. It was available in Windows 10 Pro up to version 1709. MS removed it from Pro, leaving it only in Workstation or higher for both W10 and now W11. Current W10/11 versions below Workstation can only read/write existing ReFS volumes, they cannot create new ones.

Microsoft said:
Each version of Windows client adds new features and functionality. Occasionally, new versions also remove features and functionality....

This article provides details about the features and functionality that have been removed in Windows client.....

Feature Details and mitigation Support removed
Resilient File System (ReFS) (added: August 17, 2017) Creation ability will be available in the following editions only: Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Pro for Workstations. Creation ability will be removed from all other editions. All other editions will have Read and Write ability. 1709

Features and functionality removed in Windows client

In this article, learn about the features and functionality that have been removed or replaced in Windows client.

learn.microsoft.com

Brink · Jul 6, 2023

You can still manually enable the ability to format with ReFS in all editions below if wanted.

Enable or Disable ReFS File System in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10

How to Enable or Disable to Format with ReFS File System in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

ICIT2LOL · Jul 6, 2023

Thanks for the replies so I can just accept that it is nowhere on the horizon for the very near future except for servers. I was just concerned how it would interact with the current file systems we have.

valkryie999 · Aug 5, 2023

Brink said:
You can still manually enable the ability to format with ReFS in all editions below if wanted.

Enable or Disable ReFS File System in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10

How to Enable or Disable to Format with ReFS File System in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

I tried on latest W11 and doesn't work

Brink · Aug 5, 2023

valkryie999 said:
I tried on latest W11 and doesn't work

Well, that stinks.

ICIT2LOL · Aug 5, 2023

Brink said:
Well, that stinks.

Yes Shawn it certainly does and confirms my suspicions that the new filing system nay be still a little flawed.

jimbo45 · Aug 6, 2023

ICIT2LOL said:
Yes Shawn it certainly does and confirms my suspicions that the new filing system nay be still a little flawed.

It also does have the limitation of not being NAS friendly if the NAS is using a non Windows OS. You can SEND FROM Windows TO the NAS but the NAS itself can't grab files directly FROM windows using its own file transfer mechanisms - the file system is Ms proprietary and until it's either licensed or "reverse engineered" that situation is likely to stay.

Whether the essentially one way operation FROM Windows TO NAS is of significant issue is only one for individual users to decide. I run several automatic backup jobs on the NAS server pulling stuff from Windows clients so this could be a problem.

(Note you can always on a linux clone a disk which has the refs file system with dd as dd is totally file system independent and just reads physical sectors on disk -- but you won't be able to read what's on it unless you restore to a Windows system).

There is some paragon software around - I think a single user can get it for free -- I've got a Windows 2021 server so I might test this

Introduction - ReFS for Linux

Rapid and transparent access to ReFS volumes under Linux with read and write functionality

www.paragon-software.com

cheers
jimbo

ICIT2LOL · Aug 6, 2023

jimbo45 said:
It also does have the limitation of not being NAS friendly if the NAS is using a non Windows OS. You can SEND FROM Windows TO the NAS but the NAS itself can't grab files directly FROM windows using its own file transfer mechanisms - the file system is Ms proprietary and until it's either licensed or "reverse engineered" that situation is likely to stay.

Whether the essentially one way operation FROM Windows TO NAS is of significant issue is only one for individual users to decide. I run several automatic backup jobs on the NAS server pulling stuff from Windows clients so this could be a problem.

(Note you can always on a linux clone a disk which has the refs file system with dd as dd is totally file system independent and just reads physical sectors on disk -- but you won't be able to read what's on it unless you restore to a Windows system).

There is some paragon software around - I think a single user can get it for free -- I've got a Windows 2021 server so I might test this

Introduction - ReFS for Linux

Rapid and transparent access to ReFS volumes under Linux with read and write functionality

www.paragon-software.com

cheers
jimbo

Well jimbo I had no idea not being that tech savvy and good luck with your experimentation.

DigitalStefan · Sep 6, 2023

I saw an article claiming the next point release of Windows 11 will include ReFS support with some curious "use a ReFS drive for your source code repositories" facility and integration with GitHub. My thought was perhaps some ReFS features will provide either some speedup or functionality improvement when working with (probably larger) source projects.

Curious about the REFS file system

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