Curious about the REFS file system


ICIT2LOL

ICIT2LOL

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Just as a curiosity point I am wondering if anyone has thoughts on the new filling system - ReFS - Wikipedia.
The fact that will at some when the time comes if one has all their data stored in the NTFS will be able to transfer the data file system to the new system file data?
As I said it is pure curiosity as apparently Windows 12 will make this another mandatory requirement for computers so be forewarned is a real need.
 

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Well, it should bring the end to CHKDSK and the 8.3 file format if your wikipedia article is anything to go by.
It appears that ReFS is available on Windows Server only. Since it is not yet available on desktop editions then it is currently impossible to make the migration. Plus ReFS does not yet support bootable disks or removable disks. I don't know how they are going to get this ready for Win 12, if they are preparing to make it mandatory.
Hers a link to the Microsoft overview:
learn.microsoft.com

Resilient File System (ReFS) overview

Learn more about: Resilient File System (ReFS) overview
learn.microsoft.com
 

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ReFS is non-bootable, at the moment.

I use it on one drive as a data disk, for regular PC use, some older games and VMs are installed on it.
Never had any issues.
 

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rockyanexp said:
Seems MS is already testing ReFS boot.
Setup Windows on ReFS
Click to expand...
Its essentially the same file system as used in "Storage spaces" -- which in the past I found very unreliable --at least back on Windows 8/8.1 but on servers it should be resilient.

The other problem to be aware of if you use non Windows NAS type devices for backup etc -- They are unable to read the REFS file system so sharing data is problematic. The Linux kernel may eventually be modified to handle the ReFS system as was the case with NTFS but it's still a proprietary file system so unless Ms publishes an API for access to ReFs one will have to depend on "Reverse Engineering" which carries obvious risks whenever Ms updates the system.

Since this has been around for a long time there must IMO be significant problems in deploying this file system to the consumer versions of Windows. NTFS works, can have large file and data sizes and seems to be essentially stable and doesn't break easily. Servers have a different issue -- speed, efficiency, and ability to handle zillions of simultaneous requests are required -- totallly different to a normal single user home computer system.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Hopachi said:
ReFS is non-bootable, at the moment.

I use it on one drive as a data disk, for regular PC use, some older games and VMs are installed on it.
Never had any issues.
Click to expand...
What version of Windows are you running it on -- and is that disk part of a "Storage Space".

Cheers
jimbo
 

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jimbo45 said:
What version of Windows are you running it on -- and is that disk part of a "Storage Space".

Cheers
jimbo
Click to expand...
@jimbo45
It is readible in Pro edition, though you cannot format it in ReFS.
I'm running it in Windows 11 Pro, had it used from Windows 10 Pro and started it back in Windows 8.1 Pro where it was possible to format.

Nowadays you need Pro for Workstations to be able to format in ReFS, if I'm not mistaken.

And no, the drive is NOT part of a Storage Space.
I simply use it as a second Data (D:) disk (ReFS) besides the main system (C:) disk (NTFS), in plain words.
 

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ICIT2LOL said:
Just as a curiosity point I am wondering if anyone has thoughts on the new filling system - ReFS - Wikipedia.
Click to expand...
ReFS is not that new. It was available in Windows 10 Pro up to version 1709. MS removed it from Pro, leaving it only in Workstation or higher for both W10 and now W11. Current W10/11 versions below Workstation can only read/write existing ReFS volumes, they cannot create new ones.

Microsoft said:
Each version of Windows client adds new features and functionality. Occasionally, new versions also remove features and functionality....

This article provides details about the features and functionality that have been removed in Windows client.....

FeatureDetails and mitigationSupport removed
Resilient File System (ReFS) (added: August 17, 2017)Creation ability will be available in the following editions only: Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Pro for Workstations. Creation ability will be removed from all other editions. All other editions will have Read and Write ability.1709
Click to expand...
learn.microsoft.com

Features and functionality removed in Windows client

In this article, learn about the features and functionality that have been removed or replaced in Windows client.
learn.microsoft.com
 

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Thanks for the replies so I can just accept that it is nowhere on the horizon for the very near future except for servers. I was just concerned how it would interact with the current file systems we have.
 

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Brink said:
Well, that stinks. :(
Click to expand...
Yes Shawn it certainly does and confirms my suspicions that the new filing system nay be still a little flawed.
 

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ICIT2LOL said:
Yes Shawn it certainly does and confirms my suspicions that the new filing system nay be still a little flawed.
Click to expand...
It also does have the limitation of not being NAS friendly if the NAS is using a non Windows OS. You can SEND FROM Windows TO the NAS but the NAS itself can't grab files directly FROM windows using its own file transfer mechanisms - the file system is Ms proprietary and until it's either licensed or "reverse engineered" that situation is likely to stay.

Whether the essentially one way operation FROM Windows TO NAS is of significant issue is only one for individual users to decide. I run several automatic backup jobs on the NAS server pulling stuff from Windows clients so this could be a problem.

(Note you can always on a linux clone a disk which has the refs file system with dd as dd is totally file system independent and just reads physical sectors on disk -- but you won't be able to read what's on it unless you restore to a Windows system).

There is some paragon software around - I think a single user can get it for free -- I've got a Windows 2021 server so I might test this

Introduction - ReFS for Linux

Rapid and transparent access to ReFS volumes under Linux with read and write functionality
www.paragon-software.com www.paragon-software.com

cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Windows XP,11 Linux Fedora Rawhide pre-releas...2 X Intel i7
OS
Windows XP,11 Linux Fedora Rawhide pre-release 45
Computer type
PC/Desktop
CPU
2 X Intel i7
Screen Resolution
4KUHD X 2
jimbo45 said:
It also does have the limitation of not being NAS friendly if the NAS is using a non Windows OS. You can SEND FROM Windows TO the NAS but the NAS itself can't grab files directly FROM windows using its own file transfer mechanisms - the file system is Ms proprietary and until it's either licensed or "reverse engineered" that situation is likely to stay.

Whether the essentially one way operation FROM Windows TO NAS is of significant issue is only one for individual users to decide. I run several automatic backup jobs on the NAS server pulling stuff from Windows clients so this could be a problem.

(Note you can always on a linux clone a disk which has the refs file system with dd as dd is totally file system independent and just reads physical sectors on disk -- but you won't be able to read what's on it unless you restore to a Windows system).

There is some paragon software around - I think a single user can get it for free -- I've got a Windows 2021 server so I might test this

Introduction - ReFS for Linux

Rapid and transparent access to ReFS volumes under Linux with read and write functionality
www.paragon-software.com www.paragon-software.com

cheers
jimbo
Click to expand...
Well jimbo I had no idea not being that tech savvy and good luck with your experimentation.
 

My Computers My Computers

System One System Two

  • At a glance

    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (OS Build 22631.4169) Des...i7 -10510U / Intel i5 3750KSamsung 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz & G-Skill 16GB DDR...On board Intel CPU graphics & Nvidia GeForce ...
    OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (OS Build 22631.4169) Desktop (OS Build 22621.4317)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Vivo notebook X712FA or Desktop Ivy Bridge build
    CPU
    i7 -10510U / Intel i5 3750K
    Motherboard
    Asus generic & Asus P8Z77-V
    Memory
    Samsung 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz & G-Skill 16GB DDR3 2134MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    On board Intel CPU graphics & Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050Ti
    Sound Card
    Laptop onboard & Xonar DSX Card
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Generic & Samsung 27" SAM0C4C
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 Pro NMe & Samsung 870 EVO 500GB
    PSU
    N/A
    Case
    N/A
    Cooling
    Asus in built
    Keyboard
    Generic
    Mouse
    Logitec Wireless
    Internet Speed
    50Mbs max allowance - occasionally up to 75Mbs
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    ESET Ultimate Security on both
    Other Info
    Desktop running Windows11 Pro with unsupported hardware fix

  • At a glance

    Windows 11 Pro OS build 22000.376i53750K16GB DDR3 @ 2133MHzAsus GTX 650TI
    Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro OS build 22000.376
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Home build
    CPU
    i53750K
    Motherboard
    Asus P8Z77-V
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 @ 2133MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    Asus GTX 650TI
    Sound Card
    Asus Xonar DSX
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung 4K
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160
    Hard Drives
    Samsung EVO 970
    PSU
    Corsair HX1100
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF -M
    Cooling
    Liquid
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Sidewinder 6
    Mouse
    Logitec
    Internet Speed
    50Mbs
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Only Windows at the moment
I saw an article claiming the next point release of Windows 11 will include ReFS support with some curious "use a ReFS drive for your source code repositories" facility and integration with GitHub. My thought was perhaps some ReFS features will provide either some speedup or functionality improvement when working with (probably larger) source projects.
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Windows 11Ryzen 5800X3D32GBRTX3090
OS
Windows 11
Computer type
PC/Desktop
Manufacturer/Model
Self built
CPU
Ryzen 5800X3D
Motherboard
Asus X570 TUF Gaming Plus
Memory
32GB
Graphics Card(s)
RTX3090
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