Solved Does Macrium Reflect backup the UEFI or BIOS?

I have "Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279 [UEFI]" installed on my HP PC.
Disk 1 has 4 partitions and I selct all 4 when doing a 'Full' backup. See photo.

Q1 - Is the UEFI/BIOS included in one of these partitions or is it flashed onto a motherboard component?
Q2 - If it is stored in a motherboard component then I reckon it does not get backed up but does this matter?

I don't believe the UEFI gets changed unless you change it by adjusting settings or flashing an update. It's still there, unchanged, no matter what you change on your Disk 1, so it wouldn't make much sense to include it in daily/weekly/whatever backups of Disk 1.

Ken,

Q1 - No.
Q2 - Yes. Some computer makers provide facilities for recovering an old Uefi/Bios.
HP Notebook PCs - Recovering the Bios - HPCustomerSupport
I could not find HP desktop PCs - Recovering the BIOS
The relevant section of the article is under the heading Recover the BIOS using a USB recovery drive. It is an option within their Bios update tools.
This, for example, is a dialog shown when updating my HP desktop's Bios. I have the option of creating a Bios recovery disk from each Bios update.


You might also like to take a look at these articles which include instructions for resetting Bios settings to default [rather than recovering the Bios itself].
HP Desktop PCs - BIOS Setup Utility information and menu options
HP Consumer Notebook PCs - BIOS Setup Information and Menu Options


All the best,
Denis

I think those backup options from Dell and HP and others actually back up the settings currently in use in the UEFI, not the UEFI itself. Having that list of settings makes it possible to restore your settings to the way you had them when you backed them up. It's not like you're replacing a version of the UEFI with an older version. You're just resetting its various options to a prior set of settings.

Wisewiz,

You seem to be referring to those Bios setup info links. Yes, they describe the means of restoring default settings in a Bios rather than recovering the Bios itself.

That's why I led with the Recovering the Bios link. The relevant section is under the heading Recover the BIOS using a USB recovery drive. It is, in effect, a variant of their Bios update tool.

I've added additional explanations to my previous post along with a pretty picture.

All the best,
Denis

@Try3

Thank you, Denis. Now I know about the existence of those programs. What I don't know is whether they're likely to foul things up, as flashing the UEFI is a notoriously risky business.

Wisewiz said:

flashing the UEFI is a notoriously risky business.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have also always heard that flashing any Bios is a notoriously risky business.
- I have never experienced any problems though.
- And I have never had anybody tell me that they have had problems either.
It seems, to me, to be a bit like the common opinion in the nineties that you should never upgrade a computer's OS.

I install every Bios update that HP offer for my HP Pavilion desktop.
I did the same when Dell supported my Dell Inspiron laptop.
I will do the same for my new Lenovo laptop. I have not yet been able to find anything about any Lenovo Bios recovery tools.


And I'm just doing the latest HP Pavilion Bios update now. I will use the option to copy a Bios image [shown in my diagram above] because I have never done that.


All the best,
Denis

There's quite a crowd here now, watching this thread, and I'm sure we all wish you the best of luck with this, and hope you'll report on your successful BIOS update when you're finished.

Dan

Thanks for all replies. I remembered that HP BIOS update process creates a new folder each time it is updated in subfolders of C:\SWSetup, the latest being C:\SWSetup\SP148022. See photo.
Whether the files in these sub folders can be used to revert back to an older BIOS I do not know. As @Wisewiz says updating the BIOS can be a risky business so I am not likely to use them anyway. As @Try3 I also have never had any trouble updating BIOS but my heart is always in my mouth hoping we do not have a power cut during the process.
To answer my own OP I believe I have discovered that BIOS is flashed onto a motherboard chip of some sort and so Macrium images will not backup the BIOS because it is not on the selected Disk 1 SSD.

Oh dear.
I'm sorry but you'll have to wait.
I've been making screenshots of the Bios recovery disk creation procedure & the Bios Recovery image creation procedure.
And now the HP computer has started doing its main job and won't be free for several hours. It's my TV & radio recorder.
And much of this evening & tomorrow will be disrupted by some deliveries, preps for them & immediate actions upon receipt.

I won't forget to respond but cannot foretell when.


All the best,
Denis

wiganken said:

HP BIOS update process creates a new folder each time it is updated in subfolders of C:\SWSetup, the latest being C:\SWSetup\SP148022

Click to expand...

I agree.

wiganken said:

See photo

Click to expand...

If you are not going to do it then it is not important but not a single one of my Bios extraction folders looks like your diagram.
All mine look like this sample - a single file named with the Bios family code [5 numbers, 08653 in this case] then the Bios version [F33 in this case].




All the best,
Denis

My OP has been answered so I'll call this 'Solved'.

Wisewiz said:

There's quite a crowd here now, watching this thread, and I'm sure we all wish you the best of luck with this, and hope you'll report on your successful BIOS update when you're finished

Click to expand...

Dan,

I did it this morning without any problems at all.

It took only seven minutes, including the restart during which all the work is done. That's seven minutes from double-clicking on the exe file to running my script [that displays the Bios version] afterwards.



All the best,
Denis

Cloning means just that -- if MBR the MBR will be copied (HDD sector 0) . If it's a GPT disk then the EFI file is just a bog standard data file in the data area of the disk. In both cases the data is copied. Simple and as easy as that. What it can't do is copy any variables stored in the CMOS of the MOBO so hardware sec boot keys for example / data won't be copied or restored.

Booting UEFI simply means that the computer hardware bootstrap start up process will simply read the EFI file on HDD to load the bootmanager and execute it, whereas for MBR the hardware will physically load sector 0 on the HDD which executes the load process for executing the bootloader. You can use an ordinary file manager to look at the efi files on a disk if you are so minded. For MBR you need to physically look at sector 0 on an HDD if you want to bother with this stuff.

Any proper backup system will backup data -- note the EFI partition is a small data partition so it can be backed up via data backup but needs to be backed up as a separate partition -- not usually worth doing as this can be re-created via BCDBOOT.EXE . The MBR is NOT a data partition so won't be backed up - but as I said cloning will copy entire disks - whatever software you use whether DD on Linux or any windows backup software that enables cloning.

Some specific hardware vendors might provide special bootable disks for recovering / restoring data from the CMOS chips in the firmware but that is a security risk if the computer is password protected at the firmware level. General purpose backup / restore software won't provide this functionality - nor could it -- hardware chips are specific to the appropriate vendors.

Cheers
jimbo

Wisewiz said:

@Try3

Thank you, Denis. Now I know about the existence of those programs. What I don't know is whether they're likely to foul things up, as flashing the UEFI is a notoriously risky business.

Click to expand...

I have flashed BIOS and firmware A LOT. Never had an issue except if it was with the firmware or BIOS itself. Many Motherboards provide a fail-safe - either a dual BIOS (e.g. some Gigabyte)or a BIOS that can be flashed without a UEFI (like Asus flashback). If you don't have these mechanisms then if the BIOS flash gets interrupted, for example a power failure, then you might be screwed. So you don't want to do this in a Thunderstorm or during hot spells where their might be brownouts. I have done hundreds and never had a failure.

The risk f failure is pretty low but the impact may be high (bricked board). People often confuse the risk with the impact.

Edit:

OTOH, as I said above, the issues/risk I had were with the BIOS itself - bugs. I had the luxury to revert back to a previous version with the MB I choose. I would not be quick to update a BIOS if I did not have that capability. In that case I would wait to see what others experiences are with the updated BIOS.

Wisewiz said:

I don't believe the UEFI gets changed unless you change it by adjusting settings or flashing an update. It's still there, unchanged, no matter what you change on your Disk 1, so it wouldn't make much sense to include it in daily/weekly/whatever backups of Disk 1.

Click to expand...

That's correct I do believe. The BIOS settings are saved in the BIOS Chip

Wisewiz said:

@Try3

Thank you, Denis. Now I know about the existence of those programs. What I don't know is whether they're likely to foul things up, as flashing the UEFI is a notoriously risky business.

Click to expand...

It used to be complicated , perhaps.

I never had any problem with somewhat recent machines.