Solved Drive crash (hypo)


Haydon

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Hypothetical scenario: The OS is on a physical C: drive and the apps are on a physical D: drive. The physical C: drive crashes and is replaced with a new physical drive/OS.

Will the apps have to be re-installed? Why or why not? I am not talking about portable apps, but about apps that requires installation, like Photoshop, for example.

Happy Valentine's Day!
 

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jvickers

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Hypothetical scenario: The OS is on a physical C: drive and the apps are on a physical D: drive. The physical C: drive crashes and is replaced with a new physical drive/OS.

Will the apps have to be re-installed? Why or why not? I am not talking about portable apps, but about apps that requires installation, like Photoshop, for example.

Happy Valentine's Day!
Good question! I believe you have to reinstall because they're not written to the registry and not associated with your Windows anymore. Some apps will work without reinstalling them from what I've found. One example is SmartBoard software (educational software). Those applications are few and far between, I believe.
 

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barman58

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You should be able to restore the contents of the system drive from a current backup, and most of the applications would be OK and run without issues. I say most as they may have been changes to the settings in the registry and other system areas since the backup was made. it could be that if no changes had been made then all apps will run
 

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jvickers

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You should be able to restore the contents of the system drive from a current backup, and most of the applications would be OK and run without issues. I say most as they may have been changes to the settings in the registry and other system areas since the backup was made. it could be that if no changes had been made then all apps will run
Yes, if you restore from a backup, you should be fine with most applications. I approached the question as if @Haydon had installed the OS fresh and not restored. Probably short-sighted on my part!
 

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    SK hynix Gold P31 1TB PCIe NVMe Gen3 M.2 2280 Internal SSD
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    Currently taken down because of a lack of space :-(
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IanMosley

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Hypothetical scenario: The OS is on a physical C: drive and the apps are on a physical D: drive. The physical C: drive crashes and is replaced with a new physical drive/OS.

Will the apps have to be re-installed? Why or why not? I am not talking about portable apps, but about apps that requires installation, like Photoshop, for example.
Below is a snapshot of some of the partitions on my device's internal HDD -

A.png
When I take an OS image I back ALL of these up together, so if / when I have to do an OS restore, everything is in sync.

You only have to remember any updates you have done since taking the OS image; this can easily be done by navigating thus -

Control Panel => Programs and Features => sorting 'Installed On' most recent first'

For example,

202202 - Monthly Updated Software.png
 

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The-Hive

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As far as I know apps or programs in the D drive will have information stored on the C drive certainly in Program Data, registry and other places. So I reckon you will need to reinstall of course an image solves the problem which is why Macrium is so popular
 

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    Dell Inspiron 3501
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Haydon

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Let's assume that there is no backup for the physical drive C: with the OS only. The physical drive is a spinner that died when the machine fell off a high pedestal. The new physical drive has a clean install of the OS.

What I want to explore is this: why aren't all apps made portable? Why isn't Photoshop, for example, made self-sufficient so that it can run on any W11 machine? Is it revenue protection ONLY? Or is there a technical reason to bind an installation to a specific machine/user?

May your romances never crash!
 

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The-Hive

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Some big apps need to be registered to access other resources hence they cannot be portable. Try it search you PC and for a program or app and you will find instances of it all over the place I use Everything as my search tool
 

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    Dell Inspiron 3501
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jvickers

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Let's assume that there is no backup for the physical drive C: with the OS only. The physical drive is a spinner that died when the machine fell off a high pedestal. The new physical drive has a clean install of the OS.

What I want to explore is this: why aren't all apps made portable? Why isn't Photoshop, for example, made self-sufficient so that it can run on any W11 machine? Is it revenue protection ONLY? Or is there a technical reason to bind an installation to a specific machine/user?

May your romances never crash!
Another good question. I assume it's because it would allow you to easily use it on any system. That would make it system independent and would allow for even easier pirating. This means they lose money. Also, by making the programs system dependent, they can license it to a machine and not a person. Many applications, like Photoshop, are bound to one system. If you want it on another system, you'd have to buy another copy or use that cloud Photoshop (which might be all that's available now, come to think of it). Still, they're wanting to 1) sell copies, and 2) bind it to specific people/systems.

All of this is conjecture, really.
 

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    ZOTAC RTX 3060 Twin Edge OC/ ZOTAC Gaming GeForce GTX 1660 Super 6GB GDDR6 192-bit Gaming Graphics Card
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    Proprietary
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    ViewSonic XG2530 25"/Benq XL2411P 24"/ Samsung SyncMaster BX2331 23"
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    1920x1080 240Hz/144Hz/60Hz (based on monitor setup above)
    Hard Drives
    SK hynix Gold P31 1TB PCIe NVMe Gen3 M.2 2280 Internal SSD
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    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD
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    Corsair iCUE H60i RGB PRO XT Liquid CPU Cooler
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Ghot

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I would think that for large programs or even large games, the non-portability gives it a far easier (faster), way to access the hardware. Consider rendering times or frames per second... etc.
I can't think of any other reason for it.

Or to put it another way... if it was only about money or DRM, I think they could accomplish that, by just forcing you to re-register or some such. I think it would be just as easy to "hide" the proof of registration in the program itself, as it is to hide it in Windows.
 
Last edited:

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barman58

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Major applications are made to be modular, which means that specific general subroutines can be shared with and accessed by other applications which means that the programming is more efficient and therefore more reliable. A lot of shared routines are actually part of the OS, which means for example that every application does not need to include the print facility, or the save routine.

Also with suites like Adobe Creative Cloud will install all the subroutines for a specific task or file format settings with the first application, if you add a second application then this functionality already exists an so does not need to be installed again. This also improves performance as the latest version of the subroutine will be the one used by all applications that can.

I was in this business in the days where most applications were stand alone and there were huge issues with compatibility and also the user had to learn so many different ways of doing basically the same task
 

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    Chillblast to my design
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 5950X, 4.9GHz
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    Asus Prime X570-Pro Motherboard
    Memory
    64GB DDR4 3200MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1650 Ti - HDMI, DP
    Sound Card
    On motherboard Feeding SPDiF 5.1 system
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" UHD 32 Bit HDR Monitor + 43" UHD 4K 32Bit HDR TV
    Screen Resolution
    2 x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    1TB M2 SSD OS, 500GB Fast Access SSD, 2 x 8TB Data + Various Externals from 1TB to 4TB, 10TB NAS
    PSU
    NZXT C750 80 PLUS Gold 750W Modular PSU
    Case
    Chillblast Silent Workstation PC Case - Black
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    NZXT Kraken X63 280mm CPU Cooler, Quiet Case fans Fan
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    Sony Z3 Android Smartphone
    Samsung S9 Plus Smartphone
    Samsung Note S20
    Wacom Pro Medium Pen Pad
    Wacom Pro Small Pen Pad
    Wacom ExpressKey Remote
    Loopdeck+ Graphics Controller
    Shuttle Pro v2 Control Pad
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro x64 [Latest release]
    Computer type
    Laptop
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    Dell XPS 17 9700
    CPU
    i7 10750H
    Motherboard
    Stock
    Memory
    32 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Stock Intel + GTX 1650 Ti
    Sound Card
    Stock 4 speaker
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    Stock 17"
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    3840 x 2160 HDR touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    2TB M2 NVMe
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    Stock Aluminium / Carbon Fibre
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    Stock + 2 fan cooling pad
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    Latest Chrome
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Haydon

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So, a BIG APP needs a lot of modular resources, and ALL those resources are neatly contained in a big modular folder structure on the D: drive which is an NVMe. Plug the NVMe in another W11 machine, and the BIG APP runs.

The BIG APP contains Adobe's entire product portfolio with uniform user experience, but if that BIG APP gets pirated :eek1::eek1::eek1:

So, the resources of the BIG APP are deliberately spread around in a specific machine to bind the BIG APP to that specific machine primarily for $ protection, IMHO.

Edit: I don't condone piracy, BTW. I would gladly continue to pay the annual MS 365 subscriptions fees if MS 365 were portable from one machine to the other, for example. Logging into the machines/MS account would show entitlement to run the MS 365 apps. Anyway, It's worth the added isolation from machines, OS crashes, infections, etc., IMHO.
 
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Winuser

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So, a BIG APP needs a lot of modular resources, and ALL those resources are neatly contained in a big modular folder structure on the D: drive which is an NVMe. Plug the NVMe in another W11 machine, and the BIG APP runs.

The BIG APP contains Adobe's entire product portfolio with uniform user experience, but if that BIG APP gets pirated :eek1::eek1::eek1:

So, the resources of the BIG APP are deliberately spread around in a specific machine to bind the BIG APP to that specific machine primarily for $ protection, IMHO.

Edit: I don't condone piracy, BTW. I would gladly continue to pay the annual MS 365 subscriptions fees if MS 365 were portable from one machine to the other, for example. Logging into the machines/MS account would show entitlement to run the MS 365 apps. Anyway, It's worth the added isolation from machines, OS crashes, infections, etc., IMHO.
MS 365 doesn't need to be portable. I have it installed on multiple devices plus share it with my son.
 

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Haydon

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MS 365 doesn't need to be portable. I have it installed on multiple devices plus share it with my son.

I have a couple of MS 365 installations myself (and have to be careful to access POP accounts from only 1 machine) and share the MS 365 subscription with 2 other people.

That's not the issue, the issue is that if MS 365 were portable, then it would share the same benefits of other portable apps, like added isolation from machines that can incur hardware defects, WU/CU woes, OS crashes, infections, etc.

Also not quite pertinent, is that there is a cloud based and even free MS 365 which is only minimally curtailed in terms of features.

Portability is already done for a large number of 'small apps' on USB sticks as per link below, BTW. I can't see any apparent scaling issues hardware- or software-wise for just about any app (not just MS 365 apps)

 

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glasskuter

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I agree with @jvickers. More and more apps these days are machine specific and registered not only to the purchaser but to the specific id of the hardware it's installed on. That's why you can't just uninstall them on one machine and install them on another without de-registering the original hardware first. There may be some that I don't know about, but I don't own any PAID programs that have a portable version. It would be too easy to share them with others and the developers of the paid apps know that and don't want to lose the revenue. Years ago, it wasn't unusual for paid apps to offer a portable version to the original purchaser, but those days are long gone.

Does anyone remember Cameyo from back in the day? It's not even free anymore. I had a box of floppies filled with Cameyp apps and games. This thread provoked me go over to portableapps.com which I hadn't visited in years. I was surprised to find a few recently updated apps for my toolkit. I wasn't aware they were still maintaining that site. The last time I visited it, most of the apps were extremely outdated
 

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barman58

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Unfortunately there is a lot of design and coding that adds to the complexity of major, [and even more and more small], applications, without being strictly required to perform the functionality of the application.

This is mostly security based and is due to a group of users who believe they are above everyone else, and that they deserve to use software without paying for it, I'm sure that the great majority of these people are normal law abiding people in other parts of their life, but for some reason it has become acceptable for them to basically, Steal other people's products without paying for them- It's become acceptable in society, partly because of the huge profits made by the developers, [but it's still not acceptable]

I can recall when there was a basic trust culture in the software industry and a lot of software shipped without even a Product key required to use it, people just thought of software the same as any other "Goods" if you wanted something, you either built it, (or grew it), yourself, or you paid someone else to provide it.

I never complain about the anti-piracy measures being built into software, but I do blame the b£$*)%(so who make it necessary
 

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Haydon

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Yeah, it's time to sum up the discussions in this thread, at least the way I see it. Thanks to all!

The answer to the question in the OP appears to be YES, if C: with the OP crashes, then the non-portable apps on D: will have to be reinstalled (unless you could recreate C: and the OS on it)

The mechanics by which apps are made non-portable, is to deliberately hide parts of the resources of the apps in the OS on C: although it would be technically very easy to put ALL resources of any one of the apps in a folder on D: (you could then cleanly uninstall an app just by dragging the app folder to the recycling bin)

The prime reason why apps are made non-portable (binding the app installation to a machine by deliberately spreading the app resources around) is revenue protection. (There may be secondary reasons why apps are made non-portable, like the reasons why bloatware is installed)

I will mark this thread 'Solved' (y)

(Portable apps like the 400+ free ones on portableapps.com are the exceptions compared to millions of non-portable apps. Revenue protection can be done in different ways, like the portable version of MalwareBytes that is only sold to techs)
 

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