Solved Is it OK to plug a surge strip into a UPS which also has surge protection?

wiganken · Sep 30, 2023

The title and the photo says it all and the photo shows what I intend with two questions.

Dru2 · Sep 30, 2023

I'm doing it now and have no issues. Though mine is slightly different in that I have a surge/UPS protector plugged into a larger UPS. The key is the have the surge protector plugged into one of the always on outlets. Kind of redundant but it works.

bobkn · Sep 30, 2023

Seems like using the surge protector would be OK, as long as you don't exceed the permitted power draw from the single regulated output.

The battery for the Eaton 3S 550B appears to be 12V/5Ah. 60Wh. Naively, at 205W, that'd give less than 18 minutes. Probably much less.

Kees · Sep 30, 2023

I only can help you about the second question, the runtime.
At the site of the manufacturer specs and runtime graphs are published.
For this model you find the specs here (for model 3S550B):

https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/skuPage.3S550B.html#Specifications

Unfortunately, the link to the runtime graph does not function anymore.

But there's another model with exactly the same specs (although it seems to have different type of outlets).
For that model you find the specs here (for model 3S550I):

https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/skuPage.3S550I.html#Specifications

The runtime graph is to be found here:

Battery Runtimes for Eaton 3S550I

As you can see, the time the battery will last is indeed very short, even shorter than @bobkn mentioned.
With demand 205 W you will have 4 minutes before the battery is empty.
Note the remark that comes with the graph:
"Battery runtimes are approximate and may vary with equipment, configuration, battery age, temperature, etc. Actual runtime may vary from +/- 15% around these typical values"

FreeBooter · Sep 30, 2023

The surge protector may not be able to provide adequate power if plugged into a UPS. The UPS may use only battery power when plugged into a surge protector, thus limiting its ability and wearing out the battery. The UPS may be overloaded by the current from a power strip.

johnlgalt · Sep 30, 2023

Dru2 said:
I'm doing it now and have no issues. Though mine is slightly different in that I have a surge/UPS protector plugged into a larger UPS. The key is the have the surge protector plugged into one of the always on outlets. Kind of redundant but it works.

This. I'm doing exactly what you want to do, @wiganken - and have been for over 3 years with nary an issue.

FreeBooter said:
The UPS may use only battery power when plugged into a surge protector,

Battery is not plugged into surge protector, it's the other way around. See his diagram.

Not Myself · Sep 30, 2023

APC recommends not doing this.

bobkn · Sep 30, 2023

Not Myself said:
APC recommends not doing this.

Jeepers.

I'm not sure I believe all that (especially for cheap surge strips), but I don't intend to test.

wiganken · Oct 1, 2023

According to APC this idea is not recommended but @Dru2 and @johnlgalt are doing it so I am still considering it.

Reading the APC article it only mentions surge protected strips so it may be okay to plug-in a non-surge protected extension lead and rely on the UPS built-in surge protection? Have I understood this correctly?

A UPS with bigger capacity would extend the 4-minute run time but how much capacity would be needed to extend this to a gauranteed 10 minutes? Logic might say 2 1/2 times larger but I am sure it is more complicated than that. Any electrical experts out there?

I am thinking of a 10-minute run time for a worst case scenario whereby I have just initiated a BIOS upgrade and then there's power cut. I want the BIOS upgrade to fully complete and I reckon 10-minutes should be enough.

Flashorn · Oct 1, 2023

wiganken said:
I am thinking of a 10-minute run time for a worst case scenario

I have a Cyberpower 1000 Sinewave and bought a 1500 Sinewave for my Son-in-Law.
The last power outage we got this summer, I got about 10 minutes to shut down
and my Son-in-Law told me they had enough time to download a movie for the kids
and to shut down all accessories attached to his PC so, I'd say about 15 minutes total.
Oh, and mine was bought about 4 years ago and his , 2 years ago.

I wouldn't think of doing what you are considering but, that's just me.

PFC Sinewave – New - Backup UPS Systems | CyberPower

The UPS adopts CyberPower's patented GreenPower UPS™ technology to enhance UPS operating efficiency, reduce heat generation, consume less power and save more energy costs than conventional UPS models.

www.cyberpower.com

wiganken · Oct 1, 2023

Flashorn said:
I wouldn't think of doing what you are considering but, that's just me.

The reason I am considering doing it this way is for neatness to the eye. The UPS would be in an area where we want to keep untidy plugs and cables to a minimum whereas the extension lead is partially hidden under my desk.

SlicEnDicE · Oct 1, 2023

bobkn said:
Jeepers.

I'm not sure I believe all that (especially for cheap surge strips), but I don't intend to test.

Yep, the issue is not with daisy chaning surge protection. That is BS. The Problem is that when daisy-chaining outlets, you easily start using more power than the devices in the chain are rated for, which will cause a fire hazard.

A good UPS should have current and voltage clamping ability. Cheap ones basically just have a fuse and a varistor and maybe some small filter (the battery or some caps)

wiganken · Oct 1, 2023

I have now concluded that a (larger) UPS that fulfills my 10-minute requirement will be too large for the location I intended (side of my desk) so I will give up on the idea of a UPS. The larger Eaton unit is 835mmL x 335mmW x 170mmH, which I consider a monster: - https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/skuPage.3S700I.html#Specifications .
I have managed up to now and we do not live in an area that has many power cuts. I'll just avoid doing BIOS/firmware updates until the weather is settled and outside peak power usage times.

Thanks for all input. I'll call this solved.

SlicEnDicE · Oct 1, 2023

The Eaton UPS will give about 5-7minutes of power at 205-250W load.

Flashorn · Oct 1, 2023

wiganken said:
I have now concluded that a (larger) UPS that fulfills my 10-minute requirement will be too large for the location I intended (side of my desk) so I will give up on the idea of a UPS. The larger Eaton unit is 835mmL x 335mmW x 170mmH, which I consider a monster: - https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/skuPage.3S700I.html#Specifications .
I have managed up to now and we do not live in an area that has many power cuts. I'll just avoid doing BIOS/firmware updates until the weather is settled and outside peak power usage times.

Thanks for all input. I'll call this solved.

You might want to consider something like this:
or the 25 foot corded unit.

https://www.newegg.com/tripp-lite-isobar8ultra-8-outlets-nema-5-15r/p/N82E16812120523

And pls, do not use an extension cord.

wiganken · Oct 1, 2023

@Flashorn - That item does not have UK sockets. See post #11 as to why I want the extension lead. Thank you anyway.

SlicEnDicE · Oct 1, 2023

The extension lead is not an issue as long as you keep track of what is plugged in where and how much the devices can consume on a busy day. Just as a safety measure I would plug all the sockets on the UPS that are not supposed to be used.

Flashorn · Oct 1, 2023

wiganken said:
@Flashorn - That item does not have UK sockets. See post #11 as to why I want the extension lead. Thank you anyway.

Sorry, I didn't see you were in the UK. You could use a converter but, I'm sure UK has it's own .
Here is something interesting :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NVEESHOX-Extension-Protection-Computer-Tablets-Black/dp/B08K2V6W55/ref=sr_1_31?crid=TRA44BR1U5KZ&keywords=surge%2Bprotector%2Bextension%2Blead&qid=1696173875&refinements=p_72%3A419153031&rnid=419152031&sprefix=surge%2Bprotector%2B%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-31&th=1

A review of same:

Dru2 · Oct 1, 2023

SlicEnDicE said:
The Problem is that when daisy-chaining outlets, you easily start using more power than the devices in the chain are rated for, which will cause a fire hazard.

That is a good point, and why you should always consider loads plugged into the unit(s) - regardless.

That said, I just checked my setup, and the unit are not in fact plugged into each other but rather a heavy-duty dual outlet extension cord since the area where the units reside are outlet limited. But yes, I did have one unit plugged into the other. And why I posted it. The key is to plug into an always on outlet; and yeah, not load them up.

All that said, if it's recommendation not to do, I'd head it; if possible; However, it's not a killer if you use prudence. I did it out of necessity. And if you must use an extension cord as must - use a quality heavy-duty grounded 12-gauge one. And nothing cheap.

Some will take issue with the above, but we all don't live in perfect worlds where everything lines up.

My two cents.

Oh, and what the OP is showing is what I would do, if no other choices were available.

Flashorn · Oct 1, 2023

Dru2 said:
All that said, if it's recommendation not to do, I'd head it; if possible

I think most if not all UPS makers not only recommend it but, will void warranty if proven they
were used with an extension cord. That said, if the unit is not too expensive (because some are Very)
then a good extension, as Dru2 said ,like something you would use for outdoor electric tools.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extension-2-Gang-Cable-Heavy-Socket/dp/B09PYTNVVM/ref=sr_1_43?keywords=exterior%2Bextension%2Blead&qid=1696176942&sr=8-43&th=1

Solved Is it OK to plug a surge strip into a UPS which also has surge protection?

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