More speculation: Is 32-bit Windows dead?

BunnyJ · Jul 17, 2021

Lots of old apps will never get upgraded to a 64bit version and they're still popular., I don't see MS getting rid of 32bit app support.

Aramil · Jul 17, 2021

Josey Wales said:
Not in Windows 11, They will work but they will be phased out, No more 32Bit CPU's so why have 32 Bit Apps?

Business has way to many 32bit custom software packages and utilities that they continue to use on 64bit systems, Microsoft will not be dropping 32bit app support in the 64bit OS anytime soon.

Josey Wales · Jul 17, 2021

Aramil said:
Business has way to many 32bit custom software packages and utilities that they continue to use on 64bit systems, Microsoft will not be dropping 32bit app support in the 64bit OS anytime soon.

I worked in Tech Business since 1984 and I can only tell you that EDS, GM did not use any 32Bit Applications. You are entitled to your opinion but one has to wonder why more and more software companies are dropping 32Bit versions. Firefox comes to mind, It will happen in due time, maybe not in my lifetime but it will.

Aramil · Jul 17, 2021

Josey Wales said:
I worked in Tech Business since 1984 and I can only tell you that EDS, GM did not use any 32Bit Applications. You are entitled to your opinion but one has to wonder why more and more software companies are dropping 32Bit versions. Firefox comes to mind,

I know but I have worked on and with Multiple E-POS systems in big retail that even after being told this is something that needs to be done at some point, are still holding on to 32bit frontend licences, a lot of their "newer" systems don't even meet minimum specs for windows 11, it's a case of something that works, for as little cost as possible.

So I agree it should, but it won't, not until these companies slowly catch up, was not to long ago some of them where hanging on to XP machines. So your big corporate arm may well be all 64bit bleeding edge, the coal face where "the real work happens" is always lagging behind, I don't see an incentive just yet for MS to drop it, dropping the 32bit OS this time seems enough of a push to make people start down the 64bit path.

Dropping 32bit app support for 64bit OS's while they still support windows 10 32bit until 2025 seems like more effort than is needed. when 10-32bit goes EOL. I can see them saying they will drop 32bit app support in the future builds (insert speculative date here)

Josey Wales · Jul 17, 2021

Aramil said:
I know but I have worked on and with Multiple E-POS systems in big retail that even after being told this is something that needs to be done at some point, are still holding on to 32bit frontend licences, a lot of their "newer" systems don't even meet minimum specs for windows 11, it's a case of something that works, for as little cost as possible.

So I agree it should, but it won't, not until these companies slowly catch up, was not to long ago some of them where hanging on to XP machines. So your big corporate arm may well be all 64bit bleeding edge, the coal face where "the real work happens" is always lagging behind, I don't see an incentive just yet for MS to drop it, dropping the 32bit OS this time seems enough of a push to make people start down the 64bit path.

Dropping 32bit app support for 64bit OS's while they still support windows 10 32bit until 2025 seems like more effort than is needed. when 10-32bit goes EOL. I can see them saying they will drop 32bit app support in the future builds (insert speculative date here)

GM waited forever to get on Office XP so these companies will go the cheap route, as long as it still works. But there will be a push towards 64Bit programs, eventually. I did read some stuff about 128 Bit Processors but that may be decades away.

Winuser · Jul 17, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Lots of old apps will never get upgraded to a 64bit version and they're still popular., I don't see MS getting rid of 32bit app support.

I just checked the Program Files (x86) folder and I have a long list of programs.

johnlgalt · Jul 18, 2021

if that were true then there would not be a Program Files (X86) folder in Win 11.....

BunnyJ said:
Lots of old apps will never get upgraded to a 64bit version and they're still popular., I don't see MS getting rid of 32bit app support.

There is support for native apps from the OS itself, and support for 3rd party apps. Microsoft may decide that all the apps included with the OS are 64 bit, no more 32 bit. In effect, they are killing support for their own 32bit apps, not general 32bit app support.

Aramil said:
Business has way to many 32bit custom software packages and utilities that they continue to use on 64bit systems, Microsoft will not be dropping 32bit app support in the 64bit OS anytime soon.

Not technically true. They could easily do so - with a 5 year / 10 year plan to have enterprises migrate their apps or get stuck using an older OS. For example, if they drop support for 32bit external apps in, say, the 2024 build of Windows (whatever it is called), then the 2023 build should still be usable for at least another 5 years after that.

It's not like they say "Hey, today it stops and you can';t do anything about it."

You know this already, I'm betting - but for others reading the thread, this needs to be mentioned. It's not a Infinity War finger snap moment.

Josey Wales said:
I worked in Tech Business since 1984 and I can only tell you that EDS, GM did not use any 32Bit Applications. You are entitled to your opinion but one has to wonder why more and more software companies are dropping 32Bit versions. Firefox comes to mind, It will happen in due time, maybe not in my lifetime but it will.

Sorry, but there are literally thousands of large scale enterprises out there. You can't expect all of them to work like the ones you're familiar with.

Aramil said:
I know but I have worked on and with Multiple E-POS systems in big retail that even after being told this is something that needs to be done at some point, are still holding on to 32bit frontend licences, a lot of their "newer" systems don't even meet minimum specs for windows 11, it's a case of something that works, for as little cost as possible.

So I agree it should, but it won't, not until these companies slowly catch up, was not to long ago some of them where hanging on to XP machines. So your big corporate arm may well be all 64bit bleeding edge, the coal face where "the real work happens" is always lagging behind, I don't see an incentive just yet for MS to drop it, dropping the 32bit OS this time seems enough of a push to make people start down the 64bit path.

Dropping 32bit app support for 64bit OS's while they still support windows 10 32bit until 2025 seems like more effort than is needed. when 10-32bit goes EOL. I can see them saying they will drop 32bit app support in the future builds (insert speculative date here)

As noted above - if they want to do it in the final first release of 11, they can - but I doubt they will. Maybe a couple of years down the road, with a long-term roadmap wrt offering extended support for corps / enterprises that need to maintain 32 bit support (like critical infrastructure).

Winuser said:
I just checked the Program Files (x86) folder and I have a long list of programs.

And your Win11 is still heavily based upon Windows 10.

What we have now has little relevance to what is being planned for.

Josey Wales · Jul 18, 2021

johnlgalt said:
if that were true then there would not be a Program Files (X86) folder in Win 11.....

There is support for native apps from the OS itself, and support for 3rd party apps. Microsoft may decide that all the apps included with the OS are 64 bit, no more 32 bit. In effect, they are killing support for their own 32bit apps, not general 32bit app support.

Not technically true. They could easily do so - with a 5 year / 10 year plan to have enterprises migrate their apps or get stuck using an older OS. For example, if they drop support for 32bit external apps in, say, the 2024 build of Windows (whatever it is called), then the 2023 build should still be usable for at least another 5 years after that.

It's not like they say "Hey, today it stops and you can';t do anything about it."

You know this already, I'm betting - but for others reading the thread, this needs to be mentioned. It's not a Infinity War finger snap moment.

Sorry, but there are literally thousands of large scale enterprises out there. You can't expect all of them to work like the ones you're familiar with.

As noted above - if they want to do it in the final first release of 11, they can - but I doubt they will. Maybe a couple of years down the road, with a long-term roadmap wrt offering extended support for corps / enterprises that need to maintain 32 bit support (like critical infrastructure).

And your Win11 is still heavily based upon Windows 10.

What we have now has little relevance to what is being planned for.

I did post what is below

Firefox comes to mind, It will happen in due time, maybe not in my lifetime but it will happen

johnlgalt · Jul 18, 2021

Not sure what you mean - Firefox can be installed in both architectures:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/#product-desktop-release

You can pick 32 bit or 64 from there.

Also, Directory Listing: /pub/firefox/releases/90.0/ - you can download either architecture from their direct FTP.

So, uh, not dropped.

Josey Wales · Jul 18, 2021

johnlgalt said:
Not sure what you mean - Firefox can be installed in both architectures:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/#product-desktop-release

You can pick 32 bit or 64 from there.

Also, Directory Listing: /pub/firefox/releases/90.0/ - you can download either architecture from their direct FTP.

So, uh, not dropped.

I swear to someone that I read Mozilla was dumping the 32 bit version. Looks like I was wrong.

johnlgalt · Jul 18, 2021

Well, maybe you're not wrong.

When Mozilla started offering 64bit as the default for systems that presented with their OS being 64bit, someone could very easily have mistakenly reported that they were dropping 32bit, when in fact, they were only making the default offered 64bit.

Bloggers tend to be fast, not always right though. It's one of the reasons I wish 'Social Media' didn't exist - it's way too easy to put misinformation out there.

And this is one topic I could easily see being mis-represented.

EDIT: as in the information Bree provides below. Someone who wants to be quick on the draw (and use a little bit of click-baiting) would easily have said "Firefox dumps 32bit" when providing that info.

Bree · Jul 18, 2021

Josey Wales said:
I swear to someone that I read Mozilla was dumping the 32 bit version.

What Mozilla did do was to migrate existing 32-bit installs to a 64-bit install with the update to FF56, and make 64-bit the default install going forwards. I was one of those who got migrated (quite smoothly).

1274659 - (win64-migration) Migrate 32-bit Firefox (WOW64) users to 64-bit Firefox (Win64)

RESOLVED (nobody) in Firefox - General. Last updated 2021-08-11.

bugzilla.mozilla.org

Winuser · Jul 19, 2021

@johnlgalt "And your Win11 is still heavily based upon Windows 10.

What we have now has little relevance to what is being planned for."

As long as there is a 64 bit alternative I don't have a problem with MS dropping all 32 bit hardware and/or software support.

spapakons · Jul 21, 2021

What about some tablets and other devices that do not have 64-bit drivers? What about some old applications that do not have 64-bit versions, including many ERP applications (sales, inventory and accounting applications) that have a great cost to replace? I don't think Microsoft would disappoint all these customers. The preview version of Windows 11 is 64-bit in order to test the OS at its full potential. When the RTM version is released there will hopefully be a 32-bit version as well. I believe 32-bit will be dropped only if there is a 128-bit and 64-bit version and this is not likely to happen anytime soon.

ish4d0w · Jul 21, 2021

hsehestedt said:
If I'm not mistaken, I think that OEMs can no longer get 32-bit Windows for new systems, but it was still available for customers to install on existing older systems.

I wonder if Microsoft will finally kill off 32-bit Windows with Win 11.

Some people might hate me for saying this, but personally, I would love to see them dump 32-bit Windows.

It should be dead, yes. In fact it should have died with Windows 8 in my opinion.

My first PC with an AMD Athlon 64 3000+ was 64 bit, back in 2006. I agree likewise, I cannot understand why would anyone want to run 32 bit OS beyond 2010, let alone in 2021. Even the last dinosaurs (legacy Intel Atoms which were 32 bit back in 2009-2012ish) are long gone.

And there was a major issue with there being a 32 bit edition of Windows, even if OEMs could no longer preinstall it: users did it anyway. I cannot tell you how many systems I had to "repair" for "apps not working" or "not recognizing all the memory" only because some untrained individual installed 32 bit Windows on a perfectly 64-bit capable modern processor like the i5-5xx series...

ish4d0w · Jul 21, 2021

spapakons said:
What about some tablets and other devices that do not have 64-bit drivers? What about some old applications that do not have 64-bit versions, including many ERP applications (sales, inventory and accounting applications) that have a great cost to replace? I don't think Microsoft would disappoint all these customers. The preview version of Windows 11 is 64-bit in order to test the OS at its full potential. When the RTM version is released there will hopefully be a 32-bit version as well. I believe 32-bit will be dropped only if there is a 128-bit and 64-bit version and this is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Are there still such legacy devices in use? I personally haven't seen anything in the past 8 years that was not 64 bit capable. Even if the manufacturer did only post 32 bit drivers (the last case I have seen for that was a HP Compaq 6720s notebook from 2008 that only had 32 bit drivers but was 64 bit capable) could potentially get proper drivers from Windows Update or through other driver finder tools

Besides, let's not forget that good old Windows 10 has full support for another FIVE years at least. Since their core is so similar, I can see them extending even beyond this deadline to support legacy PCs that people call 32 bit systems.

Also in my opinion there is no point to release a 32 bit Windows 11 since those old systems probably don't have TPM 2.0, or a processor that is Intel 8th gen or later or identical in which case they would fail to meet the new requirements anyway. So what's the point of asking for a 32 bit version? So users can mistakenly install it on their new, 64 bit capable hardware? which they do all the time..

spapakons · Jul 21, 2021

I think the UEFI, Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 requirements are in order to test (show off) the full system security capabilities of Windows 11. They could be relaxed at release to allow Windows 11 on more systems. Microsoft should let us install Windows 11 on non-compliant systems at our own risk and simply don't provide support for any security issues that would arise.

jimbo45 · Jul 21, 2021

Hi folks
Time that 32 bit support (Native) was dropped -- 32 bit OS'es and apps can run in VM's -- there's also no reason why some 32 bit executables can't continue to run - many still do e/g 32 bit Photoshop or 32 bit Office 2010 will run perfectly on W11- but full blown modern versions of say Office 32 bit or Windows 32 bit -- time has passed. Same as it did for 8 and 16 bit OS'es and chips. Even a load of recent Linux distros can only be installed on 64 bit systems - even though some libraries will continue to handle 32 bit apps for some while.

64 bit signed drivers will be a problem until hardware manufacturers update theirs. 32 bit drivers run OK currently in W11 if the hardware requires it in most cases.

Cheers
jimbo

hsehestedt · Jul 21, 2021

Yep, glad to see the 32-bit go. With the system requirements, it's confirmed that 32-bit is dead. UEFI based systems are ALWAYS 64-bit so that alone guarantees that 32-bit would not be supported. Of course, CPUs were also 64-bit LONG before 8th gen Intel core CPUs.

I also just finished a conversion of my Windows Image Management Tools program to a 64-bit only version. Removing the code to handle dual architecture Windows images reduced my code by about 30%.

Bree · Jul 21, 2021

ish4d0w said:
I cannot tell you how many systems I had to "repair" for "apps not working" or "not recognizing all the memory" only because some untrained individual installed 32 bit Windows on a perfectly 64-bit capable modern processor like the i5-5xx series...

As some of you may already know I never buy 'new'. All my laptops (and this is how I can afford to 'collect' them) were bought 'used', mostly from a reputable pawn shop chain here in the UK that has an online shop. They typically use software like 'SystemSaver Pawn Edition' from WhiteCanyon Software (or a Reset if it's a Win10 PC) to erase all personal data and information before putting the PCs up for sale, but otherwise don't install or remove anything - certainly not the OS.

As a result I get to see a lot of very odd choices installed by the previous owners. Perhaps the oddest was installed not by 'some untrained individual' but by a corporate IT department installing their company-wide system image - in this case x86 Windows 7 Enterprise on an 8GB i7-4xxx machine, originally supplied by the OEM with x64 Win8.1. Needless to say I gave that one a clean install of Windows 10 that its embedded W8 key entitled it to :wink: