Solved Moving Windows Pro to new custom build

edm3360 · May 2, 2022

I am looking for some advice on activation of Windows on a new custom build. I have a copy of W10 Pro Retail running on a custom build that I did in 2016. The plan was to deactivate the 2016 build and move the license to the new build. After stabilizing the new machine, I am planning to upgrade it to W11.
I first attempted to install the W10 Pro key on the new machine by going to Settings>Activation>Change Product Key. This failed with a message saying the key was in use on another machine.

Next, I found a youtube video using the slmgr commands to deinstall the product key on the old machine and then install on the new machine. I used slmgr.vbs /upk then slmgr.vbs /cpky on the old machine. Then, on the new machine, I attempted slmgr.vbs /ipk product key and it failed. I then tried Settings>Activation>Change Product Key again to install the 2016 key and it failed. Here is where it gets fuzzy. Somehow by clicking around (out of frustration), it now says that windows on the new machine is activated. In Settings>Activation it reads “Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your Microsoft account”. I went to my microsoft account and can see both the new machine and old machine are on the account marked as activated. Running slmgr -dli on the new machine returns: W10 Pro Retail partial key 3V66T. I know this is a generic key. Running slmgr -xpr returns “Permanently Activated”.

wmic path softwarelicensingservice get OA3xOriginalProductKey” gives only ”OA3xOriginalProductKey”

Sorry for the long winded tale. My question is “Should I just forget all this and consider the licensing good and move on?”

Thanks

NavyLCDR · May 2, 2022

edm3360 said:
Sorry for the long winded tale. My question is “Should I just forget all this and consider the licensing good and move on?”

Thanks

Yes. And here's a hint. You can now activate Windows 10 Pro on both machines at the same time simply by using the generic product key for Windows 10/11 Pro:
VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T

glasskuter · May 2, 2022

edm3360 said:
Should I just forget all this and consider the licensing good and move on?”

No you should not. Once you are satisfied with the stability of the new machine, you should deactive the old one (admin cmd slmgr.vbs /upk). Then go, into your MS account and un-tie that old machine from your MS account and change the product key on new build to the retail product key. At this point, the new machine with its new motherboard should be tied to your MS account. You are dealing with all new hardware and this ensures that your Windows installation will not become deactived sometime in the future when you no longer have that old machine around to deactivate. This also insures that you can move that retail product key to another machine if ever so desire.

NavyLCDR · May 2, 2022

glasskuter said:
No you should not. Once you are satisfied with the stability of the new machine, you should deactive the old one (admin cmd slmgr.vbs /upk). Then go, into your MS account and un-tie that old machine from your MS account and change the product key on new build to the retail product key. At this point, the new machine with its new motherboard should be tied to your MS account. You are dealing with all new hardware and this ensures that your Windows installation will not become deactived sometime in the future when you no longer have that old machine around to deactivate. This also insures that you can move that retail product key to another machine if ever so desire.

bovine doo-doo to be 100% brutally honest. Unless, of course, the post was meant to be sarcastic, and in that case.....

Why? Because both machines have a permanent digital license established for them on Microsoft Activation Servers that the user has absolutely NO control over. They both can be activated with the generic product key and the original retail product key has absolutely nothing at all to do with it any longer. Change both machines' product keys to the generic product key and be done with it.

glasskuter · May 2, 2022

@edm3360 Everyone here has his/her own opinion. Yes, you can transfer a Windows 10 license to a new PC — here's how.

edm3360 · May 2, 2022

Ok, I think I have it. Thanks to all who responded. I had already removed the key from the old machine with slmgr.vbs /upk then slmgr.vbs /cpky. Once I removed the old machine from my Microsoft account, I was able to change the key on the new machine to the retail key. So, I should be good. Thanks again for all that responded.

NavyLCDR · May 2, 2022

edm3360 said:
Ok, I think I have it. Thanks to all who responded. I had already removed the key from the old machine with slmgr.vbs /upk then slmgr.vbs /cpky. Once I removed the old machine from my Microsoft account, I was able to change the key on the new machine to the retail key. So, I should be good. Thanks again for all that responded.

I'm curious why you changed the product key on the new machine that was already activated? Microsoft has completely changed the way Windows 10/11 is activated from previous versions of Windows where product keys actually mattered.

Just like the billion other computers in the world activated with the generic Windows 10/11 product keys.

But, if it offers peace of mind, then have at it.

cereberus · May 2, 2022

glasskuter said:
@edm3360 Everyone here has his/her own opinion. Yes, you can transfer a Windows 10 license to a new PC — here's how.

OP has now activated Windows 10 on new pc, so all is fine now. I am afraid @NavyLCDR's explanation re. digital licences is correct.

The funny thing is the media at large still does not understand digital licences after 7 years. How poor is that?

The media advises all sorts of hoops and loops about disabling a pro key retail key, when in fact all you need to do is reenter the key during installation on new pc, and it will work.

Once a digital licence has been established, it can never be removed. Even the transfer licence method is actually not truly described.

In reality, it is copy the licence. The eagle eyed amongst us will realise that this violates the EULA as same licence has activated both devices.

In the past with earlier versions of Windows, eventually MS caught up and keys would get blocked and pcs unactivated.

The fundamental difference with W10 is the key is now an enabler to get a digital licence whereas in the past, the licence and key were really the same thing.

So, in order to OP to comply with EULA, his MORAL obligation is to remove Windows 10 from old pc. The EULA says nothing about deactivating licences - all it says you can only have one installation per licence.

Now, suppose OP sells PC with Windows installed and activated (as impossible to deactivate a digital licence). Technically, this breaches EULA and is essentially piracy.

Suppose OP fully complies with EULA and wipes Windows from old device and sells PC without Windows. Then OP has followed all legal requirements.

Now here is where things get absurd.

Suppose new owner installs same version of Windows 10 OR LOWER (a Pro digital licence will activate a Home installation), it will activate even if OP does not enter a key.

So legally is new owner engaging in piracy as they activated Windows without supplying a legitimate key?

One for lawyers to debate but I am certain even a novice defence lawyer would win a case, as it is MS who created the situation that digital licences can never be removed.

For the new owner, it is simply a case of serendipity.

In the end, talk about lawsuits is purely an intellectual pursuit, as MS just are not interested in the odd person violating EULA rules. All MS is interested is keeping people using Windows rather than defecting to other systems. They make far more money out of leasing office 365, advertising etc.

There is also a misconception about the digital licence linked to MS account. A lot of people think if you login on new pc with MS account, it will activate automatically. This is just not true.

The link only provides a backup mechanism to recover the digital licence if your mobo fails, and you had a new mobo (using digital licence transfer link).

All the link does is keep a record of the old mobos digital licence, so when you want to transfer licence it has a record of it.

If you use a local account, once mobo fails, the digital licence is effectively lost for ever - it never gets deleted from MS servers but there is no way (for us at least) to ever access it anymore.

So this is actually a good reason to use MS account.

So in the end, there is no need for OP to do anything but MORALLY they should remove Windows from old pc, but nothing bad will happen if OP does not do that.

NavyLCDR · May 2, 2022

And if you get the message that the product key is in use on another computer, just change the product key on the other computer to the generic for Windows 10/11.

cereberus · May 2, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
And if you get the message that the product key is in use on another computer, just change the product key on the other computer to the generic for Windows 10/11.

As your method works (not tested personally), this means that somehow entering a new generic key tells MS old key is no longer in use.

I am not sure this is deliberate design or a hangover from old licencing method.

NavyLCDR · May 3, 2022

cereberus said:
As your method works (not tested personally), this means that somehow entering a new generic key tells MS old key is no longer in use.

I am not sure this is deliberate design or a hangover from old licencing method.

However Microsoft tracks the use of product keys, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why someone would want to replace the generic product key on a Windows that was already activated with a digital license with any other product key, retail or oem. I just don't see any benefit. But, I guess if it makes a user feel better or more "legit", then I suppose go for it.

cereberus · May 3, 2022

NavyLCDR said:
However Microsoft tracks the use of product keys, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why someone would want to replace the generic product key on a Windows that was already activated with a digital license with any other product key, retail or oem. I just don't see any benefit. But, I guess if it makes a user feel better or more "legit", then I suppose go for it.

I suspect it is simply a lack of understanding how digital licencing works, and strangely much of the media does not either.

glasskuter · May 3, 2022

@cereberus I totally agree with what you are saying...with digital licenses. But please explain a few things to me. On a custom build machine, to be legal, one has to purchase a version of windows. Is this not correct? In this case, the OP already had a retail copy he wanted to use. When a retail version first activates, it is not a digital license. Once the machine upgrades from 10 to 11, it does become a digital license.

Are both you and @NavyLCDR saying I can buy a batch of used computers and not have any idea what OS they came with, install 10 Pro on them with a local account and use the generic key to activate them. I could then sell them and all that be legal? Sorry, I don't get it. If that's not piracy, I don't know what is and moral code has nothing to do with it.

If the above scenario doesn't fit what you both are saying, let's say I use the generic key and set all these computers up using my MS account. (I can have 10 devices activated at once and my main machine has Pro on it), I then make a second user as local account and delete my MS account, remove them from my list of devices with MS. and then sell them. They would still be activated. It would still be illegal. Clarify this for me, please.

cereberus · May 3, 2022

glasskuter said:
@cereberus I totally agree with what you are saying...with digital licenses. But please explain a few things to me. On a custom build machine, to be legal, one has to purchase a version of windows. Is this not correct? In this case, the OP already had a retail copy he wanted to use. When a retail version first activates, it is not a digital license. Once the machine upgrades from 10 to 11, it does become a digital license.

Are both you and @NavyLCDR saying I can buy a batch of used computers and not have any idea what OS they came with, install 10 Pro on them with a local account and use the generic key to activate them. I could then sell them and all that be legal? Sorry, I don't get it. If that's not piracy, I don't know what is and moral code has nothing to do with it.

If the above scenario doesn't fit what you both are saying, let's say I use the generic key and set all these computers up using my MS account. (I can have 10 devices activated at once and my main machine has Pro on it), I then make a second user as local account and delete my MS account, remove them from my list of devices with MS. and then sell them. They would still be activated. It would still be illegal. Clarify this for me, please.

1. During initial activation, Windows checks for a valid key, and grants a digital licence.

2. you can only activate used machines without a valid key if they previously had windows 10 reinstalled and activated i.e. has an existing digital licence.

3. Just logging on with MS account will not activate pcs.

4. There is no limit to how many activated pcs that can display in MS account but it shows only 10.

5. I could tell you how to activate all those pcs based on your own activated PC, and MS link but that would be piracy.

glasskuter · May 3, 2022

cereberus said:
but that would be piracy.

Exactly! The point I'm trying to make is a new build, as in this case, has never had windows installed. Therefore it requires a retail version of Windows which ties the new mobo and hardware to windows activation. If a generic key activates it and permanently remains activated, builders everywhere would never buy a license.
It has always been my understanding that when activating using generic keys that activation stays in effect from 30-90 days. Is this not true anymore?

cereberus · May 3, 2022

glasskuter said:
Exactly! The point I'm trying to make is a new build, as in this case, has never had windows installed. Therefore it requires a retail version of Windows which ties the new mobo and hardware to windows activation. If a generic key activates it and permanently remains activated, builders everywhere would never buy a license.
It has always been my understanding that when activating using generic keys that activation stays in effect from 30-90 days. Is this not true anymore?

You are misunderstanding the posts re. generic keys. OP was having issue that key was in use on old pc. By entering generic key on old pc which has digital licence, it frees up the pro key so OP can use it on second pc. Then OP is supposed to remove Windows from old pc.

Using a generic key on new pc does nothing - windows is installed unactivated, and has some restrictions (mostly personalisation). There is no time limit - never has been since W10 first came out.

glasskuter · May 3, 2022

Thank you @cereberus Sorry to be so bull-headed. Yes, guess I did misunderstand. I already knew one could install Windows using a generic key but it would have restrictions if a valid key was not entered. I read in what you and @NavyLCDR were saying was that since there was a valid license in MS database for Pro, that both his machines showed activated. However, in my mind that key was tied to his old system hardware. I also read he was being advised to leave it on the generic key. That's the part I couldn't wrap my head around because I couldn't figure out how the key would be tied to his new hardware and not his old unless he deactivated and re-activated.

Regarding how long before generic keys have restrictions, I found @Ed Tittel article dated 1/21/21 that states

What if a Generic Key Has No Valid Matching License?

You can use a generic key to install Windows even if there’s no matching license in the Microsoft Validation servers. But that installation will not activate unless you provide a valid key within 30 days of the installation date. After that, the product works only with limited features and personalization.

It also warns you you’re in violation of license terms, blah, blah, blah.

full article here Using Windows 10 Generic Keys - Ed Tittel

@edm3360 Sorry for hijacking your thread with this. To my way of thinking, since Windows 7, activation has too many gray areas.

Bree · May 3, 2022

glasskuter said:
I found @Ed Tittel article dated 1/21/21 that states

What if a Generic Key Has No Valid Matching License?
You can use a generic key to install Windows even if there’s no matching license in the Microsoft Validation servers. But that installation will not activate unless you provide a valid key within 30 days of the installation date. After that, the product works only with limited features and personalization.

I think @Ed Tittel is mistaken there. In my experience whenever installing W10/11 as a test (whether in a VM or on a physical machine) the limitations kick in as soon as it can contact the Microsoft activation servers and finds out that this machine has no digital licence. The limitations are almost entirely to do with personalisation. Windows Update will work whether activated or not, for example.

cereberus · May 3, 2022

Bree said:
I think @Ed Tittel is mistaken there. In my experience whenever installing W10/11 as a test (whether in a VM or on a physical machine) the limitations kick in as soon as it can contact the Microsoft activation servers and finds out that this machine has no digital licence. The limitations are almost entirely to do with personalisation. Windows Update will work whether activated or not, for example.

Totally agree. The 30 day trial period feature was true back in W7/8 days but not for W10 or W11.

W10 or W11 do not have trial periods.

A device is either activated or not.

Surprisingly, W10/11 does not even nag you if you run unactivated.

As @Bree says, restrictions are mostly personalisation, but some are related to updates i.e. you cannot change update times (not without regedit hacks).

Bree · May 3, 2022

cereberus said:
Totally agree. The 30 day trial period feature was true back in W7/8 days but not for W10 or W11.

I've just tested installing in a VM with the generic key, remaining disconnected from the internet, and changing the system time. There is no 30 day timeout, no matter how far ahead I set the system time (well, not for the next 8 years at least). Activation remains 'unable to contact activation servers'.