My two month long Amazon Refund Saga got weird

Having chosen my CPU/Mobo/RAM/AIO (On a 5 year cycle) Upgrades after the 7800X3D reviews confirmed my expectations, to add to my already purchased Case, and my first full rebuild since 2013, in early April, the bracketed dates e.g. [2023-04-17] below are delivery dates

The store I usually use is Scan Computers, which is an online only store, with just one physical location. their warehouse/showroom which is only a few miles from my home, making collection the quickest way to get my ordered products.
[2022-11-20] Price £163.32 + VAT £32.66 = Total £195.98 – Fractal Design Torrent Black Tempered Glass Dark Tint

I decided to Pre-order the CPU on the 8th, with an expected delivery on 25th
[2023-04-17] Price £366.66 + VAT £ = Total £439.99 – AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
On the 9th I had settled on the rest, all with earlier expected arrival dates than the CPU
[2023-04-18] Price £549.99 + VAT £110.00 = Total £659.99 – Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Hero
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (See below)

Scan don't sell GSkill products, so I turned to Amazon UK, and got that via a 3rd party seller based in Manchester UK, and I live in the Greater Manchester region.
It was the RGB variant (NOT my preference, but GSkill's own site was listing the non RGB version out of stock with restock date unknown, which I took to mean not being made.
The RGB variant was £80 more, even in the GSkill listings, and I suspected "Paper launch".
[2023-04-25] Price £406.56 + VAT £81.31 = Total £487.87 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5NR

All was good when Scan told me my CPU was arriving a week early, except the AIO, was now Overdue, and when investigating the alternatives, saw that the 420 variant had an expected delivery date.
January, (Overdue), which did not instill confidence. So after finding an in-stock option on Amazon UK, the weirdness began.

Not with the cooler though, I ordered that on the 18th
[2023-04-23] Price £99.16 + VAT £19.83 = Total £118.99 – Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360

In the process I saw this pop up sold by Amazon US
[2023-04-21] Price £228.6 + Postage £8.89 + Import Fees £49.76 = Total £287.31 – 64GB (2x32GB) GSkill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V AMD EXPO – F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N

£200 less (Plus no RGB crap FTW), and at that time even GSkill was selling this RAM for over £400 (Today I see it's £228).
Honestly if it wasn't Amazon US selling this, I'd have thought it a scam, and kept RAM in hand.

A refund of the RAM in hand for that sort of saving was a no brainer, but that's where things started to get weird.

Of course, I'm not dumb, with Refund authorisation, and importantly a Return Label to the Manchester, UK address in hand I started my rebuild.
This was a complete dismantling of a 10 year setup, with my huge 6ft corner unit desk big enough for three Monitors (a 32", and 2×27"), getting a full rewire (has extension holders/wiring paths underneath.

Of course the exploding CPUI/Asus BIOS debacle hit mid rebuild, so waiting for a stable BIOS meant it was into May, before I knew for sure my cheaper RAM was fine, and I posted the return.
It cost £7.50 for a "Special Delivery", which means it must be signed for on receipt, and it was only a 20 mile trip to Manchester.

Two days later it was back, having been refused. which was the first real weirdness.
I now know that the original address is actually a PO Box, and "Registered Business Address", but I'm sure the Royal Mail didn't "Refuse to sign for the return", whoever went to the PO Box did, and this appears to be a one man business.
Note: I posted a photo of the refused package in the first direct message to the seller, and knew It would become a key part of my case, when It needed escalating to Amazon.

I already knew that I was going to have to get Amazon involved, but still the response was more weirdness.
The seller claimed to know nothing about it, but sent a new "Return Label".

This was a picture posted in Amazon Messaging (which saved me doing that), and when I checked via the order, it had also replaced the original label, again very weird, but yet another link in my evidence trail.

Amazon US, the same site I had just saved £200 with, seems suspect, but that theory doesn't work, store pages don't disappear just because they run out of stock, the £487 RAM I bought was the cheapest listed on Amazon, and none of the No RGB variants were being sold anywhere I looked.
So I quickly discarded that idea, and left that on the backburner, later the reason for such weirdness would lead me to my current theory, but more evidence was needed, to bring it to the boil.

I had no real intention, of sending it to the US, but packaged it, and went to the Post Office to find out what it would cost (needs sizing/weighing), where I discovered a £25 postage, but only with £200 insurance, as Royal Mail don't control the entire delivery, an insured courier delivery would cost about £70.
I wasn't prepared to pay £25, never mind the insured price, return to seller means what it says, not send another country (Seller's Supplier I presumed?), so I now contacted Amazon UK support, they said if the seller wanted me to send elsewhere, they must provide me with a paid label.
They would contact the seller, to instruct them to provide a paid return label.
I got no response from the seller, after giving more than enough time for a response, Amazon said at least 48 hours, so I gave it 4 days.
I could then instigate the Amazon A-Z Guarantee process, Amazon would investigate then make a decision in about 7 days.

I heard nothing, and had waited two weeks, so contacted Support again, they said the claim had been closed, but I had received no eMails, and had not closed it myself.
Still not got to the bottom of that one, and though annoying, I did not take my annoyance out on the person chatting with me, they were not to blame, just telling me "Computer said No".
They would reopen the case with the highest priority possible, which would fast track it, and it did that, as only a couple of days later, on 2nd of June I was awarded a full refund, but this was weird as well

Claim decision on order [02/06/2023]
We have granted your claim, and issued you a refund to your original payment method.
If you are still in possession of the item(s) and would like to return it, please contact the seller to organize a return.

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Would like to return it? WTF, are they saying, I have a choice?
I now had my refund, and was trying to return the RAM all through this extracted saga, but that goes against my ethical principles, even if it was somehow legal, certainly a line in such an eMail shouldn't be taken as any sort of permission.
On the 5th June I finally got the full refund in my account, so informed the seller of all the facts, and stipulated I would send it to a UK address, and it had to be signed for.
The seller yet again sent me the label above. Did they even read what I wrote?

I'd been extremely patient up to this point, but I had now run out of that patience, and I had both money, and RAM in hand, so had no need to tolerate this sort runaround a moment longer.

09-Jun-2023 16:05
You're NOT being reasonable. This label is the cause of Amazon A-Z Guarantee being awarded to me without needing to return the product first.
Amazon Support told me they instructed you to provide paid for postage, after you did not respond, as advised, I started the A-Z Guarantee process. After a two Week period of investigating the case, I was awarded the full refund by Amazon UK.
No way am I sending it to the Amazon US Las Vegas, I DID NOT buy the product from Amazon US, and will NOT return it to what I can only assume is your own supplier, unless you provide a paid postage.
I bought the product from you, not Amazon US, and have no obligation to return it to anywhere except where I bought it from.
Further, as the evidence in this thread proves, I've already paid once to send it to your UK address, (using the original Return Label), and it was refused. Then suddenly it's switched to Las Vegas, THAT is the entire problem in the first place, It's just not acceptable.
Let me make it clear, I'm done playing nice, you either pay for the 2nd return (With Signed receipt if I'm posting it), or via a courier collection as Amazon have already stated you should, or it won't happen at all.

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The 1st thing I didn't expect was a very quick response, all the other responses took over 24 hours, so I only checked for that today
The 2nd thing I didn't expect was the end of this saga, to be this.

09-Jun-2023 18:46
the product can stay with you

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Not going to complain, though it was never my intention, it looks like I am keeping the RAM, so maybe Amazon knew something I didn't, but now I have been "gifted" the product, and have the evidence to prove that in writing,
In the end it seems churlish to leave a bad report about the seller, also having left the product with me, it could easily be spun, into a false narrative, so not decided on that one yet.
Patience, and record keeping, while not letting it rest too long, I gave every step double the time stated, plus the initial delay in sending the Return immediately, was for my own benefit.
Instigating the refund process ASAP is the important part, as it's only starting the return/refund process that is time limited, once you have that return label, if you need to wait until payday to post it, you're covered within reason.
In my case, I had the money, but wanted to wait until I knew for certain that the much cheaper RAM was not a scam, Though very unlikely if buying direct from Amazon, it's not impossible.

My current working theory is the seller, can write of the cost of the product as a tax deduction, but not if they return it to their supplier.
Unless they can get their buyer to return it for them, and in doing so give them a false paper trail to hide the fact they got refunded as well.
Why wouldn't they just provide a paid return in the end? Again that leaves a paper trail back to them, if they pay the return postage, it says they were responsible for that original purchase.

Not really a fan of Amazon, but at least the way they do this 3rd party sellers stuff keeps all communication via Amazon's message system, and you should make sure to post any evidence, on their website.
The chat messages are not immediately accessible, but Amazon does keep a record of those conversations. So if you have to use the courts, that's also evidence you can get at, but best to post your evidence in the messaging system, as you can more easily access that again.
All that took exactly 2 months, but the lesson is don't get mad, or impatient, document the process, and know your rights, and responsibilities, and stand up for them.

So now my only decision, is is it worth keeping?
I can always use more RAM, but the issue maybe using EXPO, I'd read mentions of issues with 4 sticks, when doing research, but I wasn't intending to use 4 sticks, so didn't take much notice of whether it was just teething problems, or a real issue.
I'll find out, now I have a reason to use 4 sticks, I also have a very good reason to research that use case.
The RAM is currently still sealed in it's box unopened, so it's actually "New, and unused". If I find out 4 sticks degrade the EXPO boost in speed, which is why I chose this RAM, it won't be worth using.

Most important thing though, is figure out how to turn off, or even remove the RGB crap I never want. (If it can't be repurposed as a visual Temperature indicator, it's of no use at all, and thus of interest to me).
I couldn't care less what my PC looks like, I only care about the performance, the RGB in the pixels on my Monitor Screen is the only RGB I care about, and I don't want any other lights near it.

Uhuru said:

The RAM is currently still sealed in it's box unopened, so it's actually "New, and unused". If I find out 4 sticks degrade the EXPO boost in speed, which is why I chose this RAM, it won't be worth using.

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This is the part that raises suspicion with me, until you open the package and try the RAM you do not even know if it is real or not.
From your narrative (honestly a bit hard to keep all the facts in mind as there is a lot of uneeded/ unrelated information included) it would appear the RAM you bought can not be found on any other sites?
The seller refused the return without reason, probably hoping to string you along till the 14 day returns window was closed, or might be a case of just trying to avoid having to deal with the issue and pass it on to the original supplier, so Amazon eventually refunded you.
Things like this are all to common so it comes as no surprise but, yeah, I suspect the RAM might be fake in this case.

DigitalGoat said:

This is the part that raises suspicion with me, until you open the package and try the RAM you do not even know if it is real or not.
From your narrative (honestly a bit hard to keep all the facts in mind as there is a lot of uneeded/ unrelated information included) it would appear the RAM you bought can not be found on any other sites?
The seller refused the return without reason, probably hoping to string you along till the 14 day returns window was closed, or might be a case of just trying to avoid having to deal with the issue and pass it on to the original supplier, so Amazon eventually refunded you.
Things like this are all to common so it comes as no surprise but, yeah, I suspect the RAM might be fake in this case.

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Been busy, but no he wouldn't have wanted me to return it to Amazon US if it was a scam. Though after reading your post, even though 99.9% sure it was legit, I did just throw it in, and wasn't even seeing the Q-code numbers light up, but the RGB was.
However on removal, my previously stable EXPO Tweaked BIOS settings failed to post, but with Q-Code back (No RGB obviously), and I had to reset to default BIOS, retrain the RAM with that, then Reapply my EXPO Tweaked settings, retrain that, and all was good again.
Knowing, how important the memory training is with these AMD CPUs, especially on 1st use, I was too hasty, and suspect having one never Trained kit + one EXPO Tweaked was the actual reason for the initial problems, though a DOA stick can't be ruled out, so RMA may be needed.

Anyway, over on GSkill's site the have a Serial Number checker, which the Kit has now passed, so it's been 100% confirmed the RAM is NOT fake.
Inded I saw a guy posting about upgrading some DDR3 RAM, and not even the model number was legit. I gathered from that RAM fakes are generally low effort affairs. No need to try to match legit RAM that well if they create the entire product.
Just signed up for GSkill Forum, waiting for posting approval (Manually activated) to esquire about Registering the RAM given these most unusual circumtances, and proof of purchase being required for a refunded product.

That said, if I can get the 4 sticks running with the EXPO Tweaked settings, a little more research to do, and a few very minor niggles with new setup to fix WAnt to Invert my Two HDDs not comfortable with connections at top (exposed rear of Mobo is to close, due to SATA lead length issue.
I've plenty of 90° Connectors from my previous build, but they don't work with the new case style, now got some longer straight leads.

You didn't get a lot of response here. Probably because you went into too much detail and it became a novel.
I too did not finish it. I skip and scrolled and stopped in the middle.
The only weird thing I notice is why are you dealing directly with the seller for Amazon return??? You just need to create your own return label on Amazon site and done. Unless Amazon UK runs their business differently.
Usually, when I return stuffs back to Amazon, I get my full refund back a few hours after dropping it off at the courier service. That's how easy it is supposed to be.
The only reason I see why the seller wants you to send the RAM somewhere else is to make sure they get it back. If you return it back to Amazon, they will get charged for re-stocking, or worse it will get lost in the warehouse.

badrobot said:

You didn't get a lot of response here. Probably because you went into too much detail and it became a novel.
I too did not finish it. I skip and scrolled and stopped in the middle.
The only weird thing I notice is why are you dealing directly with the seller for Amazon return??? You just need to create your own return label on Amazon site and done. Unless Amazon UK runs their business differently.
Usually, when I return stuffs back to Amazon, I get my full refund back a few hours after dropping it off at the courier service. That's how easy it is supposed to be.
The only reason I see why the seller wants you to send the RAM somewhere else is to make sure they get it back. If you return it back to Amazon, they will get charged for re-stocking, or worse it will get lost in the warehouse.

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Youngsters these days, 12,000 words is NOT a novel, and this was me being extremely brief, and only posting the relevant facts required to understand the situation
You TLDR, then posted about things clearly stated in the parts you never read. Don't want to read this short post, OK, but don't comment about what you TLDRd past.
I'll spell it out with some more words.

Amazon hosts 3rd Party Sellers, and it works much like eBay does (but without the bidding part). I bought the RAM direct from a 3rd party seller via the Amazon UK site.
Product was NOT bought FROM Amazon UK, and it was NOT Dispatched and/or Delivered by Amazon UK.
Amazon does sometimes deliver for 3rd party sellers, it will indicate "Dispatched by Amazon", and in those cases, you would need to return it to Amazon
This was, "Dispatched from Laz Exclusive, Sold by Laz Exclusive"

Essentially, in such 3rd Party cases Amazon just holds the money until the deals done to both parties satisfaction., and has the A-Z Guarantee scheme, just for such 3rd party sellers.
It's a different process to standard Amazon Returns Guarantee, where Amazon assesses the evidence (All communication must be done via Amazon site), so they can arbitrate.

K

Uhuru said:

All was good when Scan told me my CPU was arriving a week early, except the AIO, was now Overdue, and when investigating the alternatives, saw that the 420 variant had an expected delivery date.
January, (Overdue), which did not instill confidence.

Click to expand...

Sounds normal for purchases of computer parts.

Uhuru said:

In the process I saw this pop up sold by Amazon US ...
...
Honestly if it wasn't Amazon US selling this, I'd have thought it a scam,

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