Solved Need some basic backup advice

Hi, I am a senior (65) and need some advice on backup strategies. I didn't even own my first computer until about 15 years ago. My needs have been very simple, and I've never thought about backing up my data until recently. In hindsight, I guess I've been living dangerously that way. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had any data loss, corrupted files, blue screens, or failed drives. About 6 years ago I did have a ransomware attack, but never lost any data from it. So backing things up is new to me.

I have about 200GB of accumulated personal files now and I'm starting to think about backup plans. I just bought a multi-bay external USB hard drive enclosure (Terra Master) and trying to decide what size capacity of drives to get, how many, and what type. I anticipate I'll probably never have more than about 500-600GB of (personal) files in my lifetime. However, I am thinking of getting into video editing in the near future, in which case I would have more (and larger) files to back up then.

I need some basic strategic backup advice. But I will start with a couple of related disk image questions which will affect my more specific backup questions:

1. If I want to reinstall Windows:

If I just want to reinstall windows to keep it fresh and snappy, would I reformat the drive and then restore a backed up disk image (c:/ drive) to it? Or would that disk image contain all the things that made Windows sluggish in the first place? Would it be better to just save a copy of all my individual files, folders, and programs separately in their un-imaged state and move them over onto the fresh windows install?


2. If I need to install a new drive:


If my main physical drive fails and I need to install a new one, does the imaged backup of my drive act as a new windows installation, or do I still need to reinstall Windows first and then restore my disk image to it?

my system:

Lenovo laptop
1 TB GB storage
Windows 11 Pro (ver. 24H2)

What comes to HDD space for backups, you can never really have too much space. I think 4-10TB would be fine to getting started. Later you can upgrade and maybe swith to a NAS, which let's you add tens, if not hundreds of terabytes of backup storage.

What I would do, is copy over only your most important files to the external drive. I would also make a backup of all your current system drivers. There's an easy PowerShell command you can run to achieve this. (I'm certain someone has a link available to the tutorial)

Once everything is backed up and secured on the external drive, it's time to reinstall Windows, grab back all the drivers you just backed up and then make a disc image of your current fresh install. There are a lot of alternatives for apps to choose from for this. Macrium Reflect is one of many.

Once you have your base system image done, it's time to install all the apps you need. Once this is done and verified that everything works, you should make another system backup.

Once all that is done, I'd copy over all the most needed and important files back to were they were before the system wipe. And then I would make a 3rd system image backup.

Now you have 3 Different OS states to get back to in case of emergency.

In the future you could do differential backuos to save space and time. Only changed files/bits would be backed up.

Hope this helps you getting stared.

Madrona said:

If I just want to reinstall windows to keep it fresh and snappy, would I reformat the drive and then restore a backed up disk image (c:/ drive) to it? Or would that disk image contain all the things that made Windows sluggish in the first place? Would it be better to just save a copy of all my individual files, folders, and programs separately in their un-imaged state and move them over onto the fresh windows install?

Click to expand...

No. No formatting required. You restore an image with the partition scheme in which the image was written. The recovery media for whichever imaging app you choose should do it all for you.

Restoring an image puts the computer back exactly as it was when the image was made, warts and all.

If you do a simple copy of your files rather than an image, you can only copy personal files back in after a clean install. You can not copy programs back into a clean install. They have to be re-installed..

I find copying files tedious and less that fool-proof. Not only would I never remember to copy every file I make, regularly copying a number a very large folders takes too much of my time, especially if you are using HDDs..However, copying files is an option better than nothing,

Madrona said:

trying to decide what size capacity of drives to get, how many, and what type.

Click to expand...

In regard to full system images, An single image has to be written in its entirety to ONE drive. It is not split across multiple drives. Of course, you can create separate images on eache drive, and it's a good idea to do that. Most people keep multiple images in rotation by date created. Some of us (me) use one very large external drive with multiple images on them and then keep a smaller drive with only one image off-site as insurance against our house burning down.

To calculate how big a single image file will be, right click on your C: drive, select properties, write down how much space is used. Use that figure as the amount of disk space you need to create one image RIGHT NOW. The image will be somewhat smaller as they are compressed, but I always allow leeway. Different imaging apps compress differently. Since you do not know for sure how large your images will be in the future you can only guesstimate how much extra data will be added and add that to that figure.

Madrona said:

If I just want to reinstall windows to keep it fresh and snappy,

Click to expand...

Most times, you do not have to clean install. A system reset using "reset and keep my files" reinstalls windows, keeps your personal files. All you have to do is re-install any non-Microsoft apps that you use afterward..

For many issues, a repair install using an inplace upgrade fixes problems

Ok, thanks. I was wondering about reinstalling Windows to keep it fresh because I was interested in creating a lite or bloat free installation.

3. Should I keep my OS and programs on a separate drive from my files and folders? Does this make it any easier to do backups and imaging?

4. Is the native Windows File History feature reliable? Or should I use a third party file syncing app?

5. Is it better to consolidate all my backed up files from multiple drives to one final large capacity hard drive, or should I split my backs ups into a few hard drives?

If you're thinking of clean installing Windows 11 then definitely do an image BEFORE you clean install. Then if anything goes wrong, you can restore the image and be back to where you were before.

I do both - system images and saving (copying and pasting) all personal files to an external drive. In addition I use idrive - which backs up all my files to idrive (cloud) daily. Then - if your external drive fails, you just download all your files again. Since using that, I do system images less often. It's easy enough to restore a good image, delete all the files and then download the up to date ones from idrive again. It does cost £90 a year but I felt it was worth it (plus I was spending a fortune on external drives for images.

So you could

1) Backup (copy and paste) all your files to an external drive - it doesn't take that long - depending how many gb you have.
2) Make a system image of your system as it is now.
3) Back up all your drivers, as suggested above. I've used a tip from here and use double driver - it's quick and simple to save and restore them.
3) Clean install Windows (you can download the ISO and burn it to usb using rufus - that gives you the option to set up Windows with a local account rather than a microsoft account.
4) Do all the Windows updates, check device manager to see if any drivers are missing. Restore them from your driver backup. Windows should find almost all of the ones needed but occasionally there is one missing for, say, a card reader.
5) Check it's working ok.
6) Make a system image - that;s your "reset to factory settings" image.
7) Do all the settings you want in Windows 11 - and there can be quite a lot. I turn off autoplay, ads in various places, and sort out my start menu,
8) Add any basic programs - eg antivirus, adobe reader, your usual web browser.
9) Do another system image - eg new instal plus programs and settings.
10) Add any other programs you want and copy all your files back on.

If you do decide to use idrive - the first back takes a long time - maybe a couple of days. After that backups only take seconds or a minute or two daily - it's automatic at the time of day you set - and it isn't a resource hog. You can download them onto any other computer if needed, or access them online in the cloud.

To me, my files are the most important - I can always reinstall windows and programs - or an image like that second set up image mentioned and then add the files back.

Note: idrive is not the same as onedrive in windows. idrive is a full backup solution - one drive isn't.

​

Ok, thanks. I was wondering about reinstalling Windows to keep it fresh because I was interested in creating a lite or bloat free installation.
Complete debloating of windows is a personal choice. While I do uninstall some of the UWP apps that come along with windows, I'm a firm believer some folks go too far in their debloating. What you do here is up to you.

3. Should I keep my OS and programs on a separate drive from my files and folders? Does this make it any easier to do backups and imaging?
Some of us do but if one splits off his data, I'm a believer in keeping programs on the system drive and changing the default folder location of personal data folders only. This is especially true if one is using HDDs and even more true if one is using photo editing. You have a fast system drive. If you use slow storage drives, the programs should be on the fastest drive you have. If you do this with your personal folders, be sure to follow the tutorials in the Tutorial section on how to move them.

Moving personal data folders DO make system images smaller, but then you have to make an image of your data partition as well if you want to have a recent image of your data. As far as time goes, its six of one and half a dozen of the other. What makes sense for one is not necessarily right for the other. but dependent on what a user's setup is, how he uses his computer, how often his data changes, the importance of that data, and what he wants to do.

Personally, when I started out I had a small system drive (nvme) so I moved my data folders to a secondary drive, also nvme. My personal data does not change very much nor is any of it of really great importance, so I image that drive less often than I do my system drive.

4. Is the native Windows File History feature reliable? Or should I use a third party file syncing app? Some here use file history so one of them would have to advise you on that. I never have. I have a straight forward backup plan. I do know that Free File Sync is widely used by some.

5. Is it better to consolidate all my backed up files from multiple drives to one final large capacity hard drive, or should I split my backs ups into a few hard drives?
Again, a personal choice. Multiple images on multiple HDDs follows what many consider the golden rule of imaging....the 3-2-1 rule.

In the context of imaging, particularly digital photography and data storage, the "3-2-1" rule is a widely recommended backup strategy designed to protect against data loss. You can do this by rotating your storage drives.
Again an example: I have my most current image in my office, my second oldest image in a fireproof, waterproof gun safe in my husbands shop, and an older copy in the safety deposit box (I change this one out about every 6 months because my data doesn't change very much from month to month..

Here's what the 3-2-1 rule entails:

• 3 Copies of your data: This means having the original image files and at least two additional backup copies.
• 2 Different storage media types: Store these three copies on at least two different types of storage, such as a secondary internal hard drive and an external hard drive, or a local hard drive and cloud storage.
• 1 Offsite backup: Ensure at least one of these copies is stored in a physically separate location, like in the cloud or a remote physical location, to protect against local disasters like fires or floods.

Something else I want to point out to you that I noticed. You have 16gb of ram in that laptop. If you're going to do any serious photo editing, that is not nearly enough.

In closing, as @Haze123 mentioned, for some people syncing your personal data folders to cloud storage makes sense, and you might be one of those people. If you subscribe to Office 365 you get 1tb of free storage. If you do not use 365, you can buy more Onedrive storage to add to the 5gb you already have if you have a Microsoft account, which, in your case you would definitely have to do BEFORE you set up sync since you have so much data.. You can choose which folders to sync and manage which files are stored locally versus online.
Other folks use one of the other cloud storage apps and that's fine, too. I'm a big fan of Google drive and how it works. Why I like it is I can selectively sync sub folders easily,or folders not located within my user folders, rather than an entire user folder like Onedrive does. Yes one can use symbolic links to sync such folders, but that's a pain in the A. I want everything to be straight forward.

Hope I've given enough info to help you make choices that are right for you.

You have to do it rather than keep wondering what is best and over complicate it.

1. Simple backup of data, does not matter where you have it.

Just copy the relevant folders on to your other storage drives be it USB or NAS with File Explorer.

2. System Image backup, that involves imaging and making a recovery boot media. Much more complicated and takes time to learn about the whys and wherefores, it took me months on and off to make it work.
In this case the Image of you Laptop is everything on your Laptop drive stored such that should the drive die you can recover using the recovery boot media to a new drive.

"I need some basic strategic backup advice."
That is point 1. above.
Longer term is point 2. the most comprehensive, but for most people quite difficult.

"I was wondering about reinstalling Windows to keep it fresh because I was interested in creating a lite or bloat free installation."
Waste of time and prone to errors with limited knowledge.

"would that disk image contain all the things that made Windows sluggish in the first place? "
Yes.

"Would it be better to just save a copy of all my individual files, folders, and programs separately in their un-imaged state and move them over onto the fresh windows install?"

The first part in bold is covered by my point 1. The second part is very difficult with limited knowledge and how Windows Apps work, that is why imaging is so useful.

Yes imaging backs up everything. Backing up programs is not something I would attempt to do). However I do screenshots of my programs list and back those up with my files (along with an exported bookmarks file). You can then remember what to reinstall! These days, most activation codes for programs are sent by email so no need to write them down somewhere.

The problem with imaging IMO is - most people don't do it often enough to always have an up to date back up of everything. If your image is a week old, and your hard drive dies or gets corrupted, then that's a week's worth of files missing. It might be possible to extract them from the hard drive, but not always. Which is why I like to combine with daily file backups with idrive.

Also, at some stage, there may be something on your most recent images that you didn't realise was there, eg file corruption.

Thanks.

Would I mount the disk image onto a drive with Windows already on it? Or would I mount the disk image onto a bare metal drive? Is the disk image bootable? I'm still not quite clear about it.

Also, as previously mentioned, I currently have about 200GB of accumulated files. I don't anticipate ever having more than about 500 or 600 GB. What size of external storage drive should I get? 1 TB, 2 TB, 4 TB? I assume the disk images take up quite a bit of space, especially if I retain 2 or 3 of them for a couple of months.

You would image to external hard drives. They're not bootable. To restore an image you need a usb with windows on, and boot from that. Then instead of installing windows, you select "repair" then go through a menu until you get to "restore an image". Then plug in the drive with the image on, select the image and let it restore. It wipes your drive and replaces it with your image.

I don't know the best size of large external storage - I think you can get some large boxes with a lot of gb. But yes, with a lot of files and regular images, that is going to be a lot of storage. Hence my suggestion to back up the files elsewhere - eg idrive cloud backups. Although with that many gb it would probably be a more expensive plan than mine.

Although it looks like you can have 5 terrabytes of idrive storage for $99 a year.

And you can get one big 18 terrabyte desktop external hard drive like this. But then is that having all your eggs in one basket? I don't know!

I'm rather strongly against counting on on-line storage for restoring your operating environment. There are a few issues with having all your eggs in the on-line environment.

I have a mix, I have multiple levels of off-line backup, but for my critical data files, I also have them preserved in the cloud. I'm also a fan of a large capacity NAS for a secondary backup. Where ever possible, it's nice to have fully automated backups that report success or failure via notifications or email. That prevents you from "forgetting" to do periodic backups.

Here's a video that talks about the the pro's and con's of on-line and off-line backup.

Madrona said:

I'll probably never have more than about 500-600GB of (personal) files in my lifetime. However, I am thinking of getting into video editing in the near future, in which case I would have more (and larger) files to back up then.

Click to expand...

1. If your archive consists of photos and video files, then you need a cataloger program to quickly find the file you need by Date, Plot, and Title.
2. Photo, Video, and Audio files are poorly compressed, so you won't gain in archive size if you use a backup program.
3. Duplicate your files on the first HDD and on the second HDD.
4. Use the auto-create/checksum verification program on both HDDs, and periodically, once every 6 months, check the checksums of your files.

Madrona said:

Hi, I am a senior (65) and need some advice on backup strategies. I didn't even own my first computer until about 15 years ago. My needs have been very simple, and I've never thought about backing up my data until recently. In hindsight, I guess I've been living dangerously that way. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had any data loss, corrupted files, blue screens, or failed drives. About 6 years ago I did have a ransomware attack, but never lost any data from it. So backing things up is new to me.

I have about 200GB of accumulated personal files now and I'm starting to think about backup plans. I just bought a multi-bay external USB hard drive enclosure (Terra Master) and trying to decide what size capacity of drives to get, how many, and what type. I anticipate I'll probably never have more than about 500-600GB of (personal) files in my lifetime. However, I am thinking of getting into video editing in the near future, in which case I would have more (and larger) files to back up then.

Click to expand...

Am not familiar with the Terramaster hard drive enclosure but apparently it's meant mainly to have hard drives constantly attached to your PC with the drives running. If so, then that is NOT a backup solution. That's still susceptible to infection along with the internal drives in your PC.

A better solution for "backups" is something like a USB3 docking station. I'm using a Sabrent docking station, like this one on Amazon, and it's working well for me. It allows inserting a bare hard drive, doing a backup, then removing the hard drive and storing it in a safe place.

Madrona said:

I need some basic strategic backup advice. But I will start with a couple of related disk image questions which will affect my more specific backup questions:

Click to expand...

Apparently you are familiar with doing "image" backups (as opposed to "clone" backups). Doing "image" backups are the way to go since multiple image backups can be stored on a backup drive. (clone backups allow only one backup per drive)

Madrona said:

1. If I want to reinstall Windows:

If I just want to reinstall windows to keep it fresh and snappy, would I reformat the drive and then restore a backed up disk image (c:/ drive) to it? Or would that disk image contain all the things that made Windows sluggish in the first place? Would it be better to just save a copy of all my individual files, folders, and programs separately in their un-imaged state and move them over onto the fresh windows install?

Click to expand...

To do this, the best way is to have two separate drives. One SSD for Windows and installed programs only (the C system drive). The second SSD (or HDD) for data only (the D data drive). Then you can restore a backup to the C drive without affecting the data on the data drive. (or vice versa) Highly, highly recommend having at least two drives as described, instead of having only one drive and storing your data on the C system drive.

A 256GB SSD for the C system drive is fine for most people. Or a 512GB SSD if one has a LOT of programs to install.

A 1TB SSD for the "D" data drive if on a budget, or a 2TB SSD for the D data drive. For larger data storage, using a mechanical HDD is more cost effective and will not normally have any speed impact on your activities. (Because data is normally loaded into RAM one time and activity is done from RAM.) Even for video editing, I've found that using a HDD as the data drive has had no impact, though I use a SSD for my data drive now.

Madrona said:

2. If I need to install a new drive:


If my main physical drive fails and I need to install a new one, does the imaged backup of my drive act as a new windows installation, or do I still need to reinstall Windows first and then restore my disk image to it?

Click to expand...

What you do is use your backup program to create a "rescue drive" on a USB flash drive. .... When you need to restore a backup on the C drive, you insert the rescue USB stick and boot from it. This loads a copy of your backup program into RAM in your PC without any dependency on windows. You then use that freshly loaded backup program to restore the image backup on to your C system drive.

Madrona said:

my system:

Lenovo laptop
1 TB GB storage
Windows 11 Pro (ver. 24H2)

Click to expand...

BTW, a good backup strategy is to have two backup drives. Then alternate saving image backups to the two drives. This way, in the "rare" instance that one backup drive should fail, you at least have backups on the other backup drive. Worst case would be the image backup done two backups ago.

mck said:

BTW, a good backup strategy is to have two backup drives. Then alternate saving image backups to the two drives. This way, in the "rare" instance that one backup drive should fail, you at least have backups on the other backup drive. Worst case would be the image backup done two backups ago.

Click to expand...

This is one level of my backup system. I have two 4TB NVMe drives in external enclosures. Each two weeks, one of them gets a full backup of all boot and data partitions on my main computer, that's about 2TB of data. The drive is then disconnected until the next time it's turn for backup. This gives me two complete copies of everything on the computer.

I also have an automated backup of everything that happens automatically every day to two internal 2TB drives, that's my first level of backup.

Finally, I have both a NAS that has full copies and for my critical data, I have a cloud backup.

gunrunnerjohn said:

I'm rather strongly against counting on on-line storage for restoring your operating environment. There are a few issues with having all your eggs in the on-line environment.

I have a mix, I have multiple levels of off-line backup, but for my critical data files, I also have them preserved in the cloud. I'm also a fan of a large capacity NAS for a secondary backup. Where ever possible, it's nice to have fully automated backups that report success or failure via notifications or email. That prevents you from "forgetting" to do periodic backups.

Here's a video that talks about the the pro's and con's of on-line and off-line backup.

Click to expand...

Agree - I didn't mean solely cloud back up for files, but in addition to imaging.

mck said:

Am not familiar with the Terramaster hard drive enclosure but apparently it's meant mainly to have hard drives constantly attached to your PC with the drives running. If so, then that is NOT a backup solution. That's still susceptible to infection along with the internal drives in your PC.

Click to expand...

The Terramaster, like any external drive, can be used constantly or not. It allows me to backup my laptop then unplug it if I want. It doesn't have to be always connected.

Hazel123 said:

You would image to external hard drives. They're not bootable. To restore an image you need a usb with windows on, and boot from that. Then instead of installing windows, you select "repair" then go through a menu until you get to "restore an image". Then plug in the drive with the image on, select the image and let it restore. It wipes your drive and replaces it with your image.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I think I understand. Very helpful, thanks.

oreyro said:

1. If your archive consists of photos and video files, then you need a cataloger program to quickly find the file you need by Date, Plot, and Title.
2. Photo, Video, and Audio files are poorly compressed, so you won't gain in archive size if you use a backup program.
3. Duplicate your files on the first HDD and on the second HDD.
4. Use the auto-create/checksum verification program on both HDDs, and periodically, once every 6 months, check the checksums of your files.

Click to expand...

For my personal data files (200gb - 500gb), how much space would I need on my external backup drives to back up the files and store disk images? What size of external backup drive should I look for?

First off, you should consider some sort of generation scheme if you're really wanting to protect your data. Many folks take the simplistic path and just overwrite the last backup with the incoming one. That works unless there's a major issue during the backup process. All of a sudden, you have all your data and it's backup exposed at one time. That's why, at a minimum, I recommend two external drives for your backup files. Only one is ever connected at a time, so in the remote chance that when the backup is happening there is a power outage that scrambles everything or a ransomware attack, etc., you still have on copy of your backup that isn't affected.

Madrona said:

For my personal data files (200gb - 500gb), how much space would I need on my external backup drives to back up the files and store disk images? What size of external backup drive should I look for?

Click to expand...

This may help...




Best practice is to keep the used space on your Windows drive... small.
Like under say, 60GB.
Then backups and restores are fast.



My setup looks like this... I use Macrium Reflect to my my OS backups (the stuff in the RED box)