New windows 11 dualboot

The Above is Why I won't do it. Since I use a NUC for Linux there is no reason for me to try it,

Also Debian and MX Linux is fully SecureBoot compliant. You just have to know what you're doing. If you're expecting everything to work under Linux by default, you're wrong. It's not a click and install set it and forget it OS.

Sure, the default setup medias on most distros doesn't contain a signed kernel. But that doesn't mean you can't make it work.

Josey Wales said:

The Above is Why I won't do it. Since I use a NUC for Linux there is no reason for me to try it,

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Cristophers reasons doesn't explain your reasons. I'm not gonna watch a full setup video and try to figure out your point. You do what you gonna do.

Everything works for me without issues with SecureBoot.

Josey Wales said:

Win 24H2

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This is also irrelevant information regarding Secure Boot and dual booting...most CPUs that are about 15 years and younger support POPCNT instruction. Using that instruction on an OS level increase performance significantly and that is a good thing. Don't expect MS nor any other OS vendor except some Linux and retro fanboys to support old hardware forever. MS gotta do what they gotta do to harden Windows. Although I don't agree that they are forcing it down your throat, it is not that bad in the end. Windows 10 had all the security features Windows 11 has. Only difference is that in Windows 11 it is enabled by default and Windows 10 it is not.

Just for everybody's information, Fedora also supports Secure Boot out of the box. They're usually the first ones adapting new and modern tech.

SlicEnDicE said:

Cristophers reasons doesn't explain your reasons. I'm not gonna watch a full setup video and try to figure out your point. You do what you gonna do.

Everything works for me without issues with SecureBoot.

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That is Your opinion, with a Major Windows Update Grub can become corrupted was my point. Your opinions are just that, opinion. Windows 11 is messed up enough that there is a Cottage industry that was created to fix all the issues and make it work. MS wants to make one system that will work on all devices. Look at all the fixes , Reg hacks on this forum. You said to get out of The 80's?? The Distro I prefer was developed in 2003 and is called PClinuxOS , but how long it will be around is questionable as Texstar has Cancer. There are many many users that use 3rd party apps to make Windows 11 look like Windows 7. One way to do it right would be to remove the drive that has Windows on it and ten install Linux on a separate Drive and then by the use of The Bios, switch back & forth , there is a Reg hack here that would make it easy by placing it in the context menu. This is all explained in The Video that you do not want to watch. I use Linux on my Nuc, to avoid any issues with Windows. To do what you do you are limited to Distros that will work with Secure Boot and a TPM. If that is bypassed by some method , that method will stop with 24H2.

Josey Wales said:

That is Your opinion, with a Major Windows Update Grub can become corrupted was my point.

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That it works well for me and many others is not an opinion! it's a fact. Windows bootloader can also get corrupt, as can Windows itself and also Linux. That's just computers for you.

Josey Wales said:

I use Linux on my Nuc, to avoid any issues with Windows.

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Yes, it's awesome we have a choice to install Linux and also Windows anywhere we want.

Josey Wales said:

To do what you do you are limited to Distros that will work with Secure Boot and a TPM. If that is bypassed by some method , that method will stop with 24H2.

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This is not a problem, and if it was, I'd roll out my own. They're all distros after all, Linux is Linux, you can make it work no matter what.


24H2 will not change anything, but what will change is support for hardware that is missing POPCNT instruction. It's a hardware limitation, not a software one.

SlicEnDicE said:

24H2 will not change anything, but what will change is support for hardware that is missing POPCNT instruction. It's a hardware limitation, not a software one.

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Well all this fuss over really old pcs not being able to run 24H2 is really stupid.

There was a similar fuss years ago over the NX bit i.e older devices could not run without it.

At some point, people with really old devices need to accept their device is hardware obscolescent.

This is different to the imposed TPM 2 constraint which is an artificial constraint.

However, the key question I have yet to be seen satisfactorily answered is what benefit does the popcnt instruction give?

cereberus said:

Well all this fuss over really old pcs not being able to run 24H2 is really stupid.

There was a similar fuss years ago over the NX bit i.e older devices could not run without it.

At some point, people with really old devices need to accept their device is hardware obscolescent.

This is different to the imposed TPM 2 constraint which is an artificial constraint.

However, the key question I have yet to be seen satisfactorily answered is what benefit does the popcnt instruction give?

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I agree on the fuss 100%

Without going into technical details POPCNT gives a constant fast performace gain. It also makes parity checks more robust...there are many other use cases, but these are just a few.

EDIT: I forgot to mention it's also used a lot in cryptography. Think security and integrity here. The core reason for its existence dates all the way back to 1899.

SlicEnDicE said:

.

EDIT: I forgot to mention it's also used a lot in cryptography. Think security and integrity here. The core reason for its existence dates all the way back to 1899.

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Was that an edict from Queen Victoria?

cereberus said:

Was that an edict from Queen Victoria?

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Not quite...lookup Hamming Weight and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.

EDIT: fixed typo

SlicEnDicE said:

Not quite...lookup Hammering Weight and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.

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I was referring to date 1899 lol.

PS I think you mean Hamming Weight?

cereberus said:

I was referring to date 1899 lol.

PS I think you mean Hamming Weight?

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yes sorry, my phone did an autocorrect. Did not notice it. Thanks for mentioning this.

SlicEnDicE said:

That it works well for me and many others is not an opinion! it's a fact. Windows bootloader can also get corrupt, as can Windows itself and also Linux. That's just computers for you.


Yes, it's awesome we have a choice to install Linux and also Windows anywhere we want.


This is not a problem, and if it was, I'd roll out my own. They're all distros after all, Linux is Linux, you can make it work no matter what.


24H2 will not change anything, but what will change is support for hardware that is missing POPCNT instruction. It's a hardware limitation, not a software one.

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I use a MSA for Windows 11, maybe that is why. Yes I can dual boot with Linux Mint as explained LM Partioning but I no desire to do so as I do not care for Linux Mint , not saying it is bad but it resembles Windows 10 a great deal. To do it properly the way Christopher explained would work without any corruption to Windows or Grub but I would not want to do it that way. I have never had any corruption on any Windows Boot loader. To say that I was putting out false information was in my opinion not proper, I may have been wrong per you but for me it was a fact. I cannot do it with a Distro of my choice and why should I when I run Linux on my NUC which has a (13Gen) Intel CPU and does not Have any Windows on it. Now lets just move on and all of the fuss about 24H2 may or may not be a worry, time will tell.

moleman said:

I recently purchased a Dell XPS 9860 that came with windows 11 pre installed. I have been trying put windows 10 on it, for a dual boot desktop. My reasons are due software I need that does not run in windows11. But apparently this is not possible thank to Microsoft’s new UEFI bios. They do not allow any legacy OS’s. And the modules that supposedly ensure you can not are not found when looking in the bios. So I can’t turn them off. I tried cloning the entire windows 10 OS drive with AEOMI back upper onto a new partition on the new computer but don’t get the option to choose windows 10. Has anyone got them to both work. Maybe if I clone the os into the same partition as 11? I was told in another forum many conflicting answers, yes it will work, no you can not, you have to reinstall everything…on and on. I even put the old SSD drive in from the old computer and it doesn’t see 10. Help

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Why? Windows 11 is Windows 10 with a few enhanced requirements. Anything you can run on Windows 10, should run on Windows 11.

cereberus said:

....the key question I have yet to be seen satisfactorily answered is what benefit does the popcnt instruction give?

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According to Copilot "In summary, POPCNT is a powerful tool for counting bits efficiently, and its inclusion in Windows 11 ensures optimal performance and compatibility with new features". Apparently one function in particular that PopCnt is good for is AI calculations.

Yeah it's used for many things. POPCNT is short for population count which is a way to count bits in a single instruction. The old school way is a lot slower and that's why the instruction was introduced in the first place.

moleman said:

I recently purchased a Dell XPS 9860 that came with windows 11 pre installed. I have been trying put windows 10 on it, for a dual boot desktop. My reasons are due software I need that does not run in windows11. But apparently this is not possible thank to Microsoft’s new UEFI bios. They do not allow any legacy OS’s. And the modules that supposedly ensure you can not are not found when looking in the bios. So I can’t turn them off. I tried cloning the entire windows 10 OS drive with AEOMI back upper onto a new partition on the new computer but don’t get the option to choose windows 10. Has anyone got them to both work. Maybe if I clone the os into the same partition as 11? I was told in another forum many conflicting answers, yes it will work, no you can not, you have to reinstall everything…on and on. I even put the old SSD drive in from the old computer and it doesn’t see 10. Help

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If your Windows 10 disk is still bootable in your old computer you need to convert it from MBR to GPT.

Scott said:

If your Windows 10 disk is still bootable in your old computer you need to convert it from MBR to GPT.

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aubergine said:

Convert Windows 10 from Legacy BIOS to UEFI without Data Loss

How to Convert Windows 10 from Legacy BIOS to UEFI without Data Loss

www.tenforums.com

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Or run it as a VM -- use HYPER-V if you're on Windows 11 -- simply image the W10 system to a "Virtual disk" when creating the VM and boot it.
Depeneding on the software you need to run - IMO this is a better way than dual booting as you run the VM concurrently with your main Windows 11. If not on W11 pro then use VmWare player or VirtualBox to create your W10 VM. Same principle --copy the current W10 image to a Virtual disk when creating the virtual machine -- it's not as hard or complicated as you might think.

Note creating a VM from a physical image is usually far simpler and less complex than the reverse operation (creating a physicalmachine from a VM) although these days both operations are almost seamless, The W10 VM will run quite nicely in even 2GB RAM assigned to the VM (although I'd give it 4). - Modern VM's use RAM dynamically so only use what they need unlike a few years ago.

Cheers
jimbo