Rogue BIOS Update from Dell

IanMosley · Dec 6, 2023

Be aware of the following -

Earlier to-day I ran Windows Update, and a BIOS update for my Dell Precision 3660 was downloaded and installed.

Not being able to find a download for this on the Dell support site, I raised a query with Dell and they informed me that this BIOS version has not been released / validated for my m/c. After a remote session with Dell Tech Support, they were able to re-install the previous valid version - 0.2.9.3 - and when they re-ran Windows Update, the 'rogue' version was not downloaded / installed(- under review)

If you find yourself in a similar situation, go to the Dell Drivers & Downloads site, enter your service tag and check for the latest (authorised) version of your BIOS, download & run it to ensure that you are on the latest authorised release.

glasskuter · Dec 6, 2023

The term "firmware" in an update is not necessarily a bios update. The term "firmware" can be updates to the firmware in devices such as drives.
If a bios is downloaded from Dell, it specifically states BIOS in it's title. It is definitely not a good idea to let WU update drivers, especially bios, as it sometimes will download an older version than what you are using. You can stop windows update from updating drivers using this tutorial.
Option 1 works for Pro. Option 2 works for Pro or Home.

Enable or Disable Include Drivers with Windows Updates in Windows 11

This tutorial will show you how to enable or disable including drivers with Windows Updates in Windows 10 and Windows 11. Windows Update will include drivers when available in Windows 11 by default. You can enable the Do not include drivers with Windows Updates policy to not include drivers...

www.elevenforum.com

If you have Dell Command Update installed, you can use it to keep your drivers updated yourself. That is it's purpose. If you do not have it, I suggest you install it from the support page for your device.

Support for Precision 3660 Tower | Drivers & Downloads | Dell US

johnlgalt · Dec 6, 2023

I would not call it a rogue update.

See this:

Windows and Linux devices vulnerable to new LogoFAIL firmware attack

Ars Technica: Hundreds of Windows and Linux computer models from virtually all hardware makers are vulnerable to a new attack that executes malicious firmware early in the boot-up sequence, a feat that allows infections that are nearly impossible to detect or remove using current defense...

www.elevenforum.com

I would call it (possibly) Dell being good and updating a massive security hole.

BamaInArk · Dec 6, 2023

I have seen this as well on Dells. However, at least in my case, the "firmware update" revision was in line with the naming scheme of the latest bios, which confounds things even more. Firmware vs Bios?

Mitch · Dec 7, 2023

For our 2 Dell PC's we get Dell Firmware Updates delivered via Windows Update 10 - 14 days after the main BIOS update using either SupportAssist or Dell Update. The Firmware update versions have always been the same as the previously installed BIOS version - never had a Firmware update installed other than by Windows Update. I would think if you block Windows Update from delivering these Firmware updates, they may not be installed and may not be offered by Dell. Other driver updates are usually offered by SupportAssist or Dell Update up to a few weeks after they first appear on the Drivers & Downloads page - maybe urgent BIOS updates will appear sooner?

glasskuter · Dec 7, 2023

Mitch said:
I would think if you block Windows Update from delivering these Firmware updates, they may not be installed

I have to disagree. For my particular Dell there have been no firmware updates on the Dell site so I can't explicitly confirm your statement regarding firmware updates, But I can state Dell Command Update HAS updated by bios 18 times. Per the Dell site regarding Dell Command Update and Support Assist it states " This application simplifies the BIOS, firmware, driver, and application update experience."

Manufacturers sometimes customize their drivers for a specific machine, whereas WU assigns drivers on a PCI\VEN basis.

I feel it behooves anyone to be pro-active about managing their own drivers or let their manufacturer update app do it. While the drivers maintained in the WU database usually do fairly well in most cases to get a system up and running after a clean install, there have been too many instances where WU gets it wrong if left free to manage drivers on an ongoing basis. When this happens, it's hard enough for an experienced user to straighten out, but newbies have no clue how to. This is the reason that all OEM PC and motherboard manufacturers now have their own app for doing so.

garioch7 · Dec 7, 2023

Just a word of caution, based on experience.

The experts at the Dell Forums recommend BIOS updates be done by the Flash Update method rather than via SupportAssist and Dell Update, both of which I have removed from my computer.

I check the Dell website, Support weekly, for new drivers for my computers and download them from there. It does not help that there is currently a bug in the Dell website that requires you to pretend to install SupportAssist to see the list of updates for your Dell computer. When you cancel the installation of SupportAssist, the list of drivers shows up as long as you are not using Firefox.

What a mess over there since they updated their Forums and websites.

I hope this helps. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

glasskuter · Dec 7, 2023

garioch7 said:
both of which I have removed from my computer.

To each his own. Command Update has served me well, thus far. I do not have it auto-starting but do use it manually. I can accept or deny any offered update.

IF one doesn't disable driver updates in WU, it boils down to who the user trusts the most to manage his drivers; the folks that manufactured it, you yourself, or MS.

Bree · Dec 7, 2023

garioch7 said:
I check the Dell website, Support weekly, for new drivers for my computers and download them from there. It does not help that there is currently a bug in the Dell website that requires you to pretend to install SupportAssist to see the list of updates for your Dell computer. When you cancel the installation of SupportAssist, the list of drivers shows up as long as you are not using Firefox.

What a mess over there since they updated their Forums and websites.

Well, I use Firefox exclusively and have no such problems. I can see my list of updates without having to pretend to install SupportAssist. That's true even before entering my service tag. In fact I have just checked that it still works fine in FF....

Dell Support bios update 7th Dec 2023.png

...and discovered that a new bios update was issued today. So thanks for the prompt, I've downloaded and installed the flash update :wink:

(BTW, that's a really nice touch, using my own wallpaper in the picture of the laptop)

garioch7 · Dec 7, 2023

@glasskuter ,

At least with the Dell computers, every BIOS update re-enables WU settings, so one has to meticulously go back into the newly-updated BIOS and disable UEFI Firmware Capsule Updates, and check that BIOS Recovery From Hard Disk, BIOS Auto Recovery, Always Perform Integrity Check, and Secure Boot-Always, Except Internal Hard Drive are all enabled. PITA.

The only BIOS update channel on my computers is going to be me via Flash Update!

There were reports on the Dell Forums that the workaround for seeing the list of Updates was not working with at least one version FF. I have not seen any recent reports in the last couple of weeks, but I thought I would mention it in case someone was running FF and the list of updates did not appear by using the workaround. I am glad to hear that it is fixed. Thanks @Bree , for keeping me honest. Hard to fool you!

Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

Bree · Dec 7, 2023

garioch7 said:
There were reports on the Dell Forums that the workaround for seeing the list of Updates was not working with at least one version FF. I have not seen any recent reports in the last couple of weeks, but I thought I would mention it in case someone was running FF and the list of updates did not appear by using the workaround. I am glad to hear that it is fixed. Thanks @Bree , for keeping me honest. Hard to fool you!

Well, I can't say that I've checked in the last couple of weeks, so you were almost certainly correct. Whatever, it's fixed now :thumbsup:

glasskuter · Dec 7, 2023

garioch7 said:
every BIOS update re-enables WU settings

Not for me. But then I have PRO and used group policy. I've never owned a computer with Home on it.

garioch7 · Dec 7, 2023

@glasskuter ,

I am running Pro as well. Group policy may be an effective way to block UEFI Firmware Capsule Updates, but I don't see how it could stop a Dell BIOS update from restoring to the BIOS to default settings to enable them again. The BIOS settings would be altered. Your group policy would stop Windows from updating the BIOS, not the BIOS setting, which would be set to permit that action by WU.

Perhaps I am not understanding your comments correctly. Certainly my experience with the BIOS in my Dell XPS 8930 is what is forecast in the Dell Desktop XPS Forums. If I recall correctly, my Dell XPS 15 7590 laptop does not seem prone to having that happen when it updates the BIOS, so it may be an issue that affects only some or all Dell XPS 89## series desktop computers.

I am happy to be corrected. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

Almighty1 · Dec 7, 2023

On my Dell XPS 15 9570, I used to have a Device Manager entry that shows the firmware but it no longer exists when I just checked, not sure if the Windows 11 Repair Install killed it or not. It used to be the same version as the BIOS but then later there were newer BIOSes and it never updated beyond that older version. I have UEFI Firmware Capsule Update turned off because I don't know if newer BIOSes will kill the undervolting feature or not which is possible by loading factory defaults each time a new BIOS comes out.

johnlgalt · Dec 7, 2023

BamaInArk said:
I have seen this as well on Dells. However, at least in my case, the "firmware update" revision was in line with the naming scheme of the latest bios, which confounds things even more. Firmware vs Bios?

So, there is a misnomer here.

What Is UEFI, and How Is It Different from BIOS?

BIOS is dead, long live UEFI.

www.howtogeek.com

Simplified, UEFI is a newer BIOS, and it is called firmware because it is firmware. But, it is still the BIOS that we're used to using form older systems - just not called BIOS anymore.

More accurately, UEFI is a newer system that accomplishes a lot of the same tasks that the older BIOSs did, and allows for additional tasks, a modern GUI interface, and much, much more.

Mitch · Dec 7, 2023

The problem with downloading updates from the Support website when posted is that until they have been tested in the open no one knows if they are going to have issues. Not a problem if they are normal updates. Tech support told me of a BIOS update listed on the website which proved to cause issues, but the previous BIOS could not be recovered. In addition, updates are listed for our Service Tag which do not apply to our PC's. Support Assist waits until the updates have been verified before offering them which can be some time after first appearing.

garioch7 · Dec 7, 2023

It is always wise to check the Dell Forums for your computer to look for reports of BIOS issues. I personally experienced one such buggy BIOS update, but Dell does have a facility to load a BIOS recovery file to restore you to a previous stable version, which is what I and others had to do.

Special thanks to the Dell Elder, @RoHe, who is not a member here but has helped so many people over in the Dell Forums with his vast knowledge and connections.

Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

Mitch · Dec 7, 2023

Hi Phil. Sounds like good advice. I suppose for drivers which can be easily rolled back like audio/display etc downloading directly from the website isn't really a problem. In my experience BIOS updates from Dell are appearing much more frequently than before and are listed as Critical in most cases.
Regards Mitch.

garioch7 · Dec 7, 2023

@Mitch ,

I am actually pleased that my 2019-vintage Dell XPS 8930 SE is continuing to receive BIOS updates from Dell, as is my 2020-vintage Dell XPS 15 7590 laptop. That is commendable support in my books.

What is not commendable is BIOS updates that bork your computer!

Often, I will go ahead and update the BIOS even if there are no reports on the Dell Forums about it. I have confidence that @RoHe will pull my bacon out of the fire, as he has done before. I always report to the Dell Forums when an update has gone smoothly, which is the VAST majority of the time.

Just my two cents. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

Almighty1 · Dec 7, 2023

Mitch said:
The problem with downloading updates from the Support website when posted is that until they have been tested in the open no one knows if they are going to have issues. Not a problem if they are normal updates. Tech support told me of a BIOS update listed on the website which proved to cause issues, but the previous BIOS could not be recovered. In addition, updates are listed for our Service Tag which do not apply to our PC's. Support Assist waits until the updates have been verified before offering them which can be some time after first appearing.

It should be pretty easy to get any BIOS earlier by clicking on Older versions as seen below:

Only one cannot go back below the version mentioned in Important Information.

Rogue BIOS Update from Dell

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