windows backup and restore changed after update

smoothnobody · Oct 6, 2022

22H2 changed something. i have a drive that i partition in two, windows and storage. i keep my system image on the storage partition. i use to be able to go to settings and restore this image. now it tells me it can not restore this image cause the image is on the drive and i need to use installation media. i created a USB and it worked. however, another change is it formatted my storage partition. it never formatted my storage partition before. wondering what has changed and if there is a way to make it work like it did before. i know windows claims this is a depreciated feature and is no longer updating it and everybody recommends i use another program. i never saw the need to use something else when this works and is built in. i also don't want to buy another USB.

Berton · Oct 6, 2022

Just a comment, keeping a backup on the physical drive as the Operating System is installed on, even though on a separate partition, is taking a large risk, especially with older drives. Failure of the drive will prohibit saving the backup partition so ALL will be lost. As to the backup feature in Windows, they've been trying to get rid of that for awhile, basically was left over from Windows 7. Most recommendations, even from Microsoft, have been to use a third-party program, lots of posts on forums about it. And a second drive is the way to do it, either added internally or USB, maybe eSATA if the computer has the port. I'd choose a drive at least twice the size of the internal, actually what I do.

smoothnobody · Oct 6, 2022

i have everything on the storage partition backed up on a USB. i already acknowledged i am aware everybody recommends using another backup method.

wabbit · Oct 6, 2022

There is a thread on this forum about two weeks ago about the importance of having a good back-up plan before updating to 22H2. Look for the thread in the "Backup & Restore section. 22H2-A good time to develop a backup plan if you haven't already.

Bree · Oct 6, 2022

smoothnobody said:
i have a drive that i partition in two, windows and storage. i keep my system image on the storage partition. i use to be able to go to settings and restore this image. now it tells me it can not...
... i know windows claims this is a depreciated feature and is no longer updating it and everybody recommends i use another program. i never saw the need to use something else when this works and is built in. i also don't want to buy another USB.

For most of my machines I too have a data partition where I create my system images. It's nice and convenient to restore from. However as Berton points out this is not much use if the drive fails on you, you'll loose the system image partition as well as your Windows partition. So once I have made my system image I then copy it to an external usb hard drive.

I used to use 'Backup and Restore (Windows 7)' for this but as you say, this has been a deprecated feature for five years now and no further development has taken place.

Microsoft said:
System Image Backup (SIB) Solution
We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors.

Features removed or Deprecated in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update

Some interesting changes. Https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ll-creators-up

www.tenforums.com

I switched to using Macrium Reflect Free after Microsoft broke their own system imaging in 32-bit windows 10 version 1803 and didn't bother to fix it until a year later when 1903 was released. If MS have broken it again with another update, then don't expect them to be in any hurry to fix it.

Macrium has worked flawlessly for me for more than four years and still does in the latest Windows 11 22H2.

1803 creating a system image fails with RPC server error 0x800706BA - Windows 10 Help Forums

In 1803 build 17134.1 32-bit (x86) as released on 30th April creating a system image fails with "The RPC server is unavailable. (0x800706BA)". This happens with an upgrade or a clean install. Creating a system image works correctly in 1803 x64,

www.tenforums.com

glasskuter · Oct 6, 2022

Berton said:
is taking a large risk

Not large...huuuge. Half the reason to have a backup at all is to protect your data in case of hardware failure. Having a backup on the system drive completely negates that protection.

It's not just the folks here who advise not using the old backup/restore function in Windows. Microsoft does as well. For them to publicly say people should not use their own feature tells me something loud and clear. It makes no sense to me that anyone would want to use it when there are so many better solutions available.

smoothnobody · Oct 6, 2022

are you guys even paying attention to what i am saying? i have already addressed the things you guys are repeating over and over. i don't want advice on how to backup. the purpose of this post is specifically what has changed with windows backup, does anybody know how to undo it, or prevent the unwanted behavior. if your post does not address these specific concerns it is not helping.

Bree · Oct 6, 2022

smoothnobody said:
the purpose of this post is specifically what has changed with windows backup, does anybody know how to undo it, or prevent the unwanted behavior. if your post does not address these specific concerns it is not helping.

The chances that anyone here still uses it are low. You are unlikely to fine the help you are asking for.

smoothnobody · Oct 6, 2022

i understand

hsehestedt · Oct 6, 2022

Isn't there a Muphy's Law that applies to backups? The chance of a drive failing is inversely proportional to the quality of your backups. In other words, the worse your backup plan, the higher the chance that the HD will fail

.

cereberus · Oct 7, 2022

smoothnobody said:
are you guys even paying attention to what i am saying? i have already addressed the things you guys are repeating over and over. i don't want advice on how to backup. the purpose of this post is specifically what has changed with windows backup, does anybody know how to undo it, or prevent the unwanted behavior. if your post does not address these specific concerns it is not helping.

No need to be so beliigerent. People here are unpaid adnd offer advice to help. It may not be what you want to hear but as @Bree says, few of us use it nowadays.

I am guessing MS have made an indavertent change i.e. a bug, or maybe you made a mistake in your backup.

Most of the third party tools have some kind of definition file that once created (and tested), you use it rather than going through the whole partition or drive selection process each time. I have one, and I use it to minimise risk of human error.

In the end, we would need a lot more information and testing to work out what went wrong, and to be honest, we just believe the solution is simple - follow MS advice and use a 3rd party tool.

So people are trying to help but it may not be specifically the help you requested. That is the nature of forums in general.

smoothnobody · Oct 7, 2022

belligerent is not the appropriate word to use here. just trying to reduce useless posts and stay on the topic. every time i post here about the built in system restore you guys swarm me about its depreciated even microsoft says don't use it there are better options use something else. unwanted advice. like going to a casino and telling people not to gamble. i specifically mentioned in my first post that i know with hopes i won't get lectured and we are still going in circles.

Bree · Oct 7, 2022

smoothnobody said:
......we are still going in circles.

Well, I am probably the most familiar here with using Backup & Restore to make system images. From 2015 up to 2018 I used it exclusively and regularly to image all my machines, I'm overly familiar with all its little foibles and idiosyncrasies.

So I tested it in a Hyper-V virtual machine running Windows 11 22H2 build 22621.521 (the current Patch Tuesday build from 13 Sept.). It worked as normal. I then upgraded the machine to the latest optional Preview cumulative update, KB5017389, 22621.608, issued 30th Sept. It still worked normally, both for making a system image and restoring it by booting to its own Advance Startup options. The separate Data partition was untouched by the restore.

So whatever you issue is, it.s specific to your machine or what choices you may have made when creating the system image. It should work normally, I cannot reproduce you problems using the latest build of Windows 11 22H2.

After the restore....

Bree · Oct 7, 2022

smoothnobody said:
, another change is it formatted my storage partition. it never formatted my storage partition before. wondering what has changed

The only plausible explanation that I can think of is that the upgrade from 21H2 to 22H2 had to resize the Recovery partition, and in doing so had shrunk the Data partition slightly to make room for that. If so, then you could perhaps restore a 21H2 image and resize the Recovery partition yourself before upgrading to 22H2 again.

MiniTool Partition Wizard can help you do that, it's what I used to make the space for the new Data partition in my tests above.

LeLibran · Oct 7, 2022

As far as I can remember, every Windows 'Feature Upgrade' (including the transition from Win 10-11) since the Windows 10 Insider programme commenced has involved a full system rebuild, including editing the existing drive partition table. Editing the existing Partition Table is an essential part of the process because a new Recovery Partition has to be created whenever a 'full' Windows Upgrade is performed (i.e. whenever a 'Windows Old' system backup is created) and the space required has to be taken from somewhere (normally the C: Drive Partition with the new Recovery Partition being created immediately after).

IME with a UEFI formatted disk Windows usually also leaves behind the old Recovery Partition which can, of course, can be deleted and the space recovered. All you have to do is a before and after Disk Partition check to monitor what changed.

Bree · Oct 7, 2022

LeLibran said:
a new Recovery Partition has to be created whenever a 'full' Windows Upgrade is performed....

Windows 11 is now capable of resizing the Recovery partition rather than creating a new one. Where the C: partition is followed immediately by the recovery partition (the default for a clean install) the Feature Update will shrink the C: partition a little to make room. Only when this is not possible will a new second recovery partition be created.

clam1952 · Oct 7, 2022

Just a thought, may be an idea to run SFC, could just be a corrupt system file that caused the problem, I'm inclined to think though that as suggested it may have been change of partition size resulting in not enough space to complete the restore although I would have though there would have been at least an error message of some kind.

Microsofts blurb on the Deprecation Windows 7 Backup and Restore deprecated - Win32 apps of course being recommended not to use it doesn't mean you can't, plenty of ancient programs work quite happily in Win11 any build.

cereberus · Oct 7, 2022

Bree said:
Windows 11 is now capable of resizing the Recovery partition rather than creating a new one. Where the C: partition is followed immediately by the recovery partition (the default for a clean install) the Feature Update will shrink the C: partition a little to make room. Only when this is not possible will a new second recovery partition be created.

I am not sure if this is entirely the case. As far as I can tell, it will reuse an existing partition if it has enough space, but will recreate a new one by shrinking C drive as you say if it cannot reuse a partition. I am not aware of the existing recovery partition ever being resized.

I am pretty certain the only partition resized is the C drive, as Windows knows if there is enough spare space.

I do not actually know what could happen if you tried to update a Windows partition which could not be shrunk enough to hold a new recovery partition. However, I seriously doubt you do an upgrade anyway if it was that tight. From memory on my old 32GB emmc tablet, even if you had a usb drive to hold temporary files, you still needed about 4 GB space minimum to do the upgrade.

Also, it is not always clear because I have seen it also create a new one even if existing is big enough for the new winre.wim. I suspect this is when the existing recovery is not directly adjacent to the C drive but I cannot prove that.

MachineLanguage · Oct 7, 2022

smoothnobody said:
belligerent is not the appropriate word to use here. just trying to reduce useless posts and stay on the topic. every time i post here about the built in system restore you guys swarm me about its depreciated even microsoft says don't use it there are better options use something else. unwanted advice. like going to a casino and telling people not to gamble. i specifically mentioned in my first post that i know with hopes i won't get lectured and we are still going in circles.

You may be correct. Perhaps instead of belligerant a more accurate description would have been discourterous.

f14tomcat · Oct 7, 2022

Just a wild guess..............

It may have formatted the drive in order to expand the Recovery partition for the OS. Again, it's only a guess.

windows backup and restore changed after update

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