Solved A little help finding backup software

hdmi said:

You can change the repeat time from 1 hour to 4 hours by simply typing in 4 hours

EDIT: Typing in 150 min. also works

Click to expand...

Well. Shame on me. Task Scheduler is just quirky enough that I assumed the only options were the ones in the pulldown. I'll remember this going forward, but for now I've just created multiple triggers at the specific times of day that I want backups done.

kado897 said:

Good progress. Can you link the MR thread when you set it up?

Click to expand...

Here's the Macrium reflect thread

And here's the thread on type of media to use offsite and where to put it

hdmi said:

If you know someone you can trust and who lives in another building, then you could set up a secure VPN connection, as moving a few storage devices back and forth between your building and a vault may not always prove to be feasible and/or practical.

Click to expand...

@hdmi I really appreciate you taking the time to share all the info you've posted. I keep going back to your posts and learning something new each time. I started out my career in IT in the early 1970s, but I've been self employed in a totally different field since 1990, so there's a lot of technology that I simply haven't been forced to master, even though I'm sure I could if needed. Which brings us to VPNs.

Are you suggesting a NAS drive attached via VPN in another location? Or am I guessing totally wrong? And how would one recover if the image was stored like this? I'm guessing whatever is used, it would probably eliminate the need for a commercial cloud service, unless it is just to provide redundancy.

BrianS said:

How do you test that your backup drive restores your m/c correctly. I can only think that you must remove your original drive and put to one side, then instal a new drive in its place then try restore - is this right ie windows starts up and all your apps work as before

Click to expand...

That's one way of doing it to be 100% sure of your image. I don't take it quite that far myself. I just make sure that I can boot from my recovery media and that the recovery media recognizes the presence of my images. As far as the images being valid, I make sure verify is set to ON so that Macrium checks that the images are valid after they are created. I also keep multiple images just in case one turns out to be troublesome. Guess you could say doing it this way is more 98% than 100%

Buddy said:

@hdmi I really appreciate you taking the time to share all the info you've posted. I keep going back to your posts and learning something new each time. I started out my career in IT in the early 1970s, but I've been self employed in a totally different field since 1990, so there's a lot of technology that I simply haven't been forced to master, even though I'm sure I could if needed. Which brings us to VPNs.

Are you suggesting a NAS drive attached via VPN in another location? Or am I guessing totally wrong? And how would one recover if the image was stored like this? I'm guessing whatever is used, it would probably eliminate the need for a commercial cloud service, unless it is just to provide redundancy.

Click to expand...

There's a lot of options to choose between, and, a NAS drive would be my least favorite choice because, just to give an example, my Asus 2-Pack RT-AX92U not only has a USB 3.0 port on each node, but also these USB 3.0 ports perform fast enough that I could always decide to hook up a USB 3.0 enclosure with SATA RAID support, and then choose RAID 1 (mirroring). The vast majority of other routers that also have a USB 3.0 port on them are noticeably slow in comparison, when it comes to using their USB 3.0 port to hook up external storage also. This speed difference matters especially if your plan is to use a USB 3.0 hub to connect multiple USB 3.0 enclosures to the same router.

But like I said, my 2-Pack Asus RT-AX92U has a USB 3.0 port on each node so, with a hub plugged into each one of them, the aforementioned difference in speed can essentially be doubled (or almost) when using all the available bandwidth that each node is capable to provide. What's more, the advanced featureset of these routers from Asus is what makes this sort of thing relatively easy to achieve.

Some say the RT-AX92U is a poor choice because it can't support Asuswrt-Merlin firmware, but does that really matter? Personally, I, can very easily live without that TBH.

The bottom line? Going for an expensive NAS may not necessarily always be better, as there also may exist cheaper alternative solutions that make it possible to spend a larger part of your budget on additional HDDs, which translates to having additional backups to achieve additional protection against losing data permanently.

glasskuter said:

That's one way of doing it to be 100% sure of your image. I don't take it quite that far myself. I just make sure that I can boot from my recovery media and that the recovery media recognizes the presence of my images. As far as the images being valid, I make sure verify is set to ON so that Macrium checks that the images are valid after they are created. I also keep multiple images just in case one turns out to be troublesome. Guess you could say doing it this way is more 98% than 100%

Click to expand...

I use a second drive approach but instead of swapping physical disks, I sometimes restore to a virtual hard drive, and just create a simple native boot entry.

If I am feeling lazy, I just use Macrium Viboot to open image as a vm. That is not quite a perfect test as the vm may not use same drivers.

However, when it comes down to it, if the image opens in Viboot, it is very unlikely the image has any issues - it would just fail to open.

Windows and various software solutions running on Windows do not necessarily always write all the important data to storage before the VSS creates the snapshot that will be used during the next step to create the image file with. Just because a task had successfully written a number of files, doesn't mean the whole task had already been completed. As a result you could still lose the part of the data that it was just about to write when all of a sudden, the snapshot was captured.

Server applications can be specially designed to overcome these limitations, at least in part, but not everyone who uses Windows has the time or knowledge to be able to weed out all the pertinent details. You'd have to at least make sure to close all important background activities wherever you are in doubt. If the processes are not transactional, this very often means there will be no rollback. As a result, data consistency issues may be more common than what you had originally envisioned. It basically depends on what your computer was doing at the time when the snapshot was created. Some of the strategies that can be used to avoid this may also include rapid fire snaphots to capture the data differentially. But unless all your workflow can be paused/resumed in such a specific way that you don't have to suffer from any of all this, you'd need to safely shut down the tasks in question, wait for the snapshot to complete, and relaunch. Depending how your workflow looks like, you can't always do that. Even if you can, you can't always expect all your tasks to be artificially intelligent enough to do that always automatically. Case in point: there can be various types of mistakes and errors involved when dealing with such methods and/or mechanisms that may tend to be complex in nature. A simpler method is to create, with verification, your image file only AFTER shutting down the computer to boot into a bootable Rescue environment [that lets you create, with verification, your image file] as opposed to creating your image file whilst Windows is actively running on the computer doing all sorts of nerdy vaguery type things to the data whilst the data is being caputered.

hdmi said:

There's a lot of options to choose between, and, a NAS drive would be my least favorite choice because, just to give an example, my Asus 2-Pack RT-AX92U not only has a USB 3.0 port on each node, but also these USB 3.0 ports perform fast enough that I could always decide to hook up a USB 3.0 enclosure with SATA RAID support, and then choose RAID 1 (mirroring). The vast majority of other routers that also have a USB 3.0 port on them are noticeably slow in comparison, when it comes to using their USB 3.0 port to hook up external storage also. This speed difference matters especially if your plan is to use a USB 3.0 hub to connect multiple USB 3.0 enclosures to the same router.

Click to expand...

@hdmi Thanks again for sharing. Your info is really accelerating my learning curve.

I have a relatively simple consumer desktop to support a laptop. My work programs aren't terribly compute-intensive, but they do interact with relatively large files, as compared to documents and spreadsheets. When I got the new Lenovo, I bought a (probably overkill) CalDigit TS4 docking station - it's Thunderbolt on both the connection to the PC and on the downstream USB-C ports. I'm hoping that getting a portable SSD to connect through it for my offsite backups will be pretty quick. If the notes I see on Macrium prove correct, my image should be maybe 200 GB at the rule of thumb of 60% of occupied disk space.

I sure wish I could just automate the imaging process and not have to remember or follow a calendar reminder. That would, of course, not be consistent with a stand-alone boot to image. That idea, though, probably didn't get completely thought out. Since I'm going to have to retrieve the off-site drive (wherever I choose to keep it) and plug it in, I've already un-automated the process. In years gone by, I'd still have to remember to do it. Now, my life is driven by Google Calendar anyway, so it should work fine (from a people-failing point of view). 😄

I have never had a problem using snapshots (vss)

Buddy said:

@hdmi Thanks again for sharing. Your info is really accelerating my learning curve.

I have a relatively simple consumer desktop to support a laptop. My work programs aren't terribly compute-intensive, but they do interact with relatively large files, as compared to documents and spreadsheets. When I got the new Lenovo, I bought a (probably overkill) CalDigit TS4 docking station - it's Thunderbolt on both the connection to the PC and on the downstream USB-C ports. I'm hoping that getting a portable SSD to connect through it for my offsite backups will be pretty quick. If the notes I see on Macrium prove correct, my image should be maybe 200 GB at the rule of thumb of 60% of occupied disk space.

I sure wish I could just automate the imaging process and not have to remember or follow a calendar reminder. That would, of course, not be consistent with a stand-alone boot to image. That idea, though, probably didn't get completely thought out. Since I'm going to have to retrieve the off-site drive (wherever I choose to keep it) and plug it in, I've already un-automated the process. In years gone by, I'd still have to remember to do it. Now, my life is driven by Google Calendar anyway, so it should work fine (from a people-failing point of view). 😄

Click to expand...

I only make an image of my C: partition a few times per year TBH, as the only real purpose of an image is just to be able to rescue my installation of Windows, updates, drivers, software and settings (at least for me). It's so I don't have to reinstall everything from scratch in the possible event that doing an in-place upgrade to repair Windows doesn't help, but TBH that has never happened to me. lol Or if the SSD breaks. The only thing that matters to me in this regard is the simple fact that I need that image to be as strictly reliable as possible WITHOUT all the unnecessary hassle that this would take with Macrium Reflect. Whether or not I may need to apply a few reasonably fast updates again after doing an image restore, doesn't make a shred of difference to me. Heck, updating Windows 11 from 21H2 to 22H2 alone took a lot longer than it will take to restore my image AND install all the updates from the last four months again. Some of my settings may have also changed since four months ago, but I can still always get them back in next to no time. Important personal files I just copy to external storage with FastCopy. So I never create any image files that contain personal files. Ever. With the method that I use to create an image, excluding personal files from image is easier, faster, less tedious compared to relocating them to a separate data partition and making always perfectly sure that none of them can still nevertheless end up being on the C: partition (for whatever the reason might be). There can be plenty of reasons why relocation of all your personal files may not always be feasible or practical, and, with Macrium Reflect, the only way that you can specify exclusions of files/folders is through editing the Windows registry so, good luck with that after your Windows installation may have already been shot to pieces when you weren't looking. Or you were looking, but you were looking with your eyes shut.

If there's some settings for which there exists no easy way (that I am aware of) to redo them, I just use the free edition of Microsoft Power Automate Desktop (PAD) to record the necessary flow(s) that navigate(s) to them, and record (an)other flow(s) that change(s) them. Editing the flows after recording them is child's play. You can just press Ctrl + A (to Select All) in the editor window before copying the contents (actions) of the flow to clipboard. Next, you can paste it to notepad. After you edited the actions with notepad, you can just copy/paste them back to the editor window in PAD. Learning to use PAD for all kinds of things like UI automation is something that requires no real programming skills. Making some screenshots to be able to remember and compare various settings usually helps also. So does adding (partial) screenshots to your flows in PAD, as you can also make flows that create them and/or that use them in multiple different ways (also including OCR actions). That said, constantly allowing settings to be changed dynamically on-the-fly is key to my usual workflow. I hope this further explains why I didn't walk that extra mile of building a custom WinPE based Rescue Media bootable ISO file of Acronis that could be booted straight into. That is, via an automated boot sequence that uses rEFInd with a custom bootloader so it chainloads iPXE which uses a custom script, a script that mounts an iSCSI volume where Ventoy is installed so Ventoy's own limitation of it requiring a USB device to be installed on is effectively bypassed through this so, next, the custom script in iPXE can grab the aforementioned bootable ISO file over the LAN or WAN, after which it can force Ventoy to boot straight into your file. Finally, simply replacing the file on the remote storage gives you total control over the boot process through Wake-On-LAN (WOL). Sure, it's a little bit nerdy, I'll admit. But it's also not rocket science, just too much hard work if all you need is to boot just one or two computers automatically, like, three, maybe four times a year. Seriously, though.. my head hurts each time when someone tries to tell me I should consider making an automatic image of my C: partition via a weekly schedule. I mean, what in the name of some kind of spiritual entity above the sky should I do THAT for? lol

SIW2 said:

I have never had a problem using snapshots (vss)

Click to expand...

Yep - there always some negativists who will go to the end of eternity telling you it is not reliable when the rest of us have done it literally hundreds of times with no issues.

I am prepared to risk one backup goes wonky once a decade LOL.

cereberus said:

Yep - there always some negativists who will go to the end of eternity telling you it is not reliable when the rest of us have done it literally hundreds of times with no issues.

I am prepared to risk one backup goes wonky once a decade LOL.

Click to expand...

I never got it to work properly in Windows 7. It always terminated with an error, fortunately late enough in the process that I still had a working Win 7. I think the problem was with Norton AV.

cereberus said:

negativists

Click to expand...

kado897 said:

I never got it to work properly in Windows 7. It always terminated with an error, fortunately late enough in the process that I still had a working Win 7. I think the problem was with Norton AV.

Click to expand...

On Windows 10 a few years ago I tried to create an image. It failed on me twice in a row despite using no 3rd party AV. Plugged in my USB flash drive that had Ventoy on it, used it to boot straight into the bootable Rescue Media ISO file of Acronis. Selected the necessary partitions, picked a destination folder that was on the C: partition. Lift off. Checked the Verify image checkbox. Waited for success, booted back into Windows. Copied the image file from the folder onto a portable drive. Called it a day.

cereberus said:

Yep - there always some negativists who will go to the end of eternity telling you it is not reliable when the rest of us have done it literally hundreds of times with no issues.

I am prepared to risk one backup goes wonky once a decade LOL.

Click to expand...

Yup we all sail along in blissful ignorance until the SHTF. Certainly happened to me, without warning - a HDD crash on W8.1. Never had such a disaster since my Commodor PET and the ludicrous audio cassette tape to store programs! It seriously dented my confidence. A tech shop fitted a new drive and restored my W8.1 (but no all those fiddly settings). Lost all my progs and some data. Avg life for a HDD - 5 years.
Ive got my sandbox alternate m/c same as my main m/c. New W11 instal and had considerable faff trying to get thru the set pages WITHOUT being sucked into registering withan M $ account. That really is pretty much forced upon you now and you need a web connection to proceed (unless you hack your way round it). As reported, if you buy the W11 pro then you dont have this hassle. Such arrogance by Microsoft towards its paying sheeple dummies.

What gets me with all the solutions posed is that you all seem to rely on a benign worse case event, you have a reliable internet connection and place faith in 3rd party apps, cloud storage and you dont check your backup really does work when the hdd crashes and you need to instal a new C drive. I am too jaundiced and distrustful that the backup wont work when you really need it.

So I want to work towards something that can be like a plug and play solution. I open the case unplug the faulty Sata III C drive and plug in my backup drive (clone) and away we go (or is it that simple shoot me down guys)
I am not concerned about data loss, I will store that on an external usb drive. I not concerned about the very latest Windows/Apps updates. I might only make a new clone once every 6 months - I can live with the imperfections of that. I just dont want to have to spend a month re-jigging all those settings, PWs, and stuff. Its so tedious.

So its crude and no Nerdy info required but will it work - sounds too simple

BrianS said:

Yup we all sail along in blissful ignorance until the SHTF. Certainly happened to me, without warning - a HDD crash on W8.1. Never had such a disaster since my Commodor PET and the ludicrous audio cassette tape to store programs! It seriously dented my confidence. A tech shop fitted a new drive and restored my W8.1 (but no all those fiddly settings). Lost all my progs and some data. Avg life for a HDD - 5 years.
Ive got my sandbox alternate m/c same as my main m/c. New W11 instal and had considerable faff trying to get thru the set pages WITHOUT being sucked into registering withan M $ account. That really is pretty much forced upon you now and you need a web connection to proceed (unless you hack your way round it). As reported, if you buy the W11 pro then you dont have this hassle. Such arrogance by Microsoft towards its paying sheeple dummies.

What gets me with all the solutions posed is that you all seem to rely on a benign worse case event, you have a reliable internet connection and place faith in 3rd party apps, cloud storage and you dont check your backup really does work when the hdd crashes and you need to instal a new C drive. I am too jaundiced and distrustful that the backup wont work when you really need it.

So I want to work towards something that can be like a plug and play solution. I open the case unplug the faulty Sata III C drive and plug in my backup drive (clone) and away we go (or is it that simple shoot me down guys)
I am not concerned about data loss, I will store that on an external usb drive. I not concerned about the very latest Windows/Apps updates. I might only make a new clone once every 6 months - I can live with the imperfections of that. I just dont want to have to spend a month re-jigging all those settings, PWs, and stuff. Its so tedious.

So its crude and no Nerdy info required but will it work - sounds too simple

Click to expand...

If you have a desktop with swappable drives then there is no reason a clone would not work and you really take minimal risks by trying it since you still have your original drive to swap back.

Thanx K9 (8.97?)
will report on results

as @glasskuter said on another thread Some coaching for a Macrium Reflect newcomer, please
STOP DO NOT RESTORE - you are only checking with MR - scary eh?

If you are willing to jump through those kind of hoops to take backups off-site as suggested, I'd rather use the cloud.

Can't believe I am saying that, because I am generally against the cloud. But it is a matter of weighing pros and cons.

Haydon said:

If you are willing to jump through those kind of hoops to take backups off-site as suggested, I'd rather use the cloud.

Can't believe I am saying that, because I am generally against the cloud. But it is a matter of weighing pros and cons.

Click to expand...

I use the cloud for off-site.

Haydon said:

If you are willing to jump through those kind of hoops to take backups off-site as suggested, I'd rather use the cloud.

Can't believe I am saying that, because I am generally against the cloud. But it is a matter of weighing pros and cons.

Click to expand...

When people say offsite, I guess they normally mean a cupboard at their parents or something like that rather than a safety deposit box in a bank.

I bet that offsite storage for most of us was a relatively impractical option until cloud storage came along.

For sure, the major cloud providers will have backups in place in case primary servers fail at distributed locations.

I often see people pointing to a cloud service that is cheaper than the majors, but can they be sure of the quality of infrastructure?

I believe my data is safer with the majors, in the sense it will not get lost, and I am sure they have better protection against hackers.

Of course, no system can protect you against malicious employees for example.

A lot say they do not trust the cloud, but that is never based on fact but just opinion (in my opinion lol).

To me,the cloud is just one part of my arsenal to protect my data and I use other methods AS WELL.

In other words, do not put your (Fabergé priced) eggs all in one basket.