Are there means to add TPM 2 to non supported laptops ?

nIGHTmAYOR · Jun 29, 2021

Like I understood Microsoft plan to make TPM 2 mandatory for Windows 11 to install , surprisingly I checked 3 of my laptops that were manufactured in years 2011 , 2015 , 2017 respectively which are all made by Lenovo to the surprise that non of them have TPM what so ever , not even the 1.2 version .

So the question is , will this mean that all these laptops will undergo planned obsolescence ? Or rather that we are about to await certain modders cracking windows to over-ride the TPM function ? Or that there will be some dongles , M2 modules to compensate for the lack of TPM ?

Bare in mind all those laptops perform optimally under Windows 10 as I managed to increase their rams to max on each , mind you upgraded their hdds to ssds and even their PCI-E / M2 Wifi cards to AX standard !

NavyLCDR · Jun 29, 2021

How did you check the laptops for TPM? Using software to check for TPM will only tell you if it is available to the OS or not. The hardware my have TPM and it is just disabled in BIOS settings. On my Dell laptop it was called PTT (Platform Trust Technology) in BIOS. As soon as I enabled it in BIOS, Windows went from TPM not available to TPM present.

Ghot · Jun 29, 2021

@nIGHTmAYOR

This may help some... How to pass the Windows 11 Compatibility Checks

bobkn · Jun 29, 2021

I have a Lenovo 110-15ISK, from late 2016. It has PTT (platform trust technology, Intel's onboard TPM) in the BIOS settings. PTT was turned on, but with a separate setting showing it as disabled. (???) I had to toggle it off then back on to make it appear as enabled. tpm.msc shows the TPM version as 2.0.

I don't know how deeply you've delvled into you BIOS settings, but PTT may be present in one or more of your laptops.

My CPU is an I3-6100U (Gen 6), so an officially supported upgrade to the release version of 11 may not be possible, even though the laptop meets all other posted requirements.

hsehestedt · Jun 29, 2021

NavyLCDR said:
How did you check the laptops for TPM?

You can see if your system has a TPM from Device Manager. It will look like this:

Note that this is how a hardware based TPM appears. I'm not sure about firmware based TPM. My MB includes a firmware based TPM but I opted to add a hardware TPM so I've never seen how the firmware based TPM shows up in Device Manager.

But as was mentioned previously, you can also run TPM.MSC to get details.

Note that in either case (hardware or firmware implementation), these will need to be enabled in your firmware. For example, if you have a hardware TPM but it is disabled in the UEFI firmware, then it won't show up in Device Manager.

rqt · Jun 29, 2021

In Device Manager firmware TPM looks the same as hardware TPM (there may be some differences if you delve into the properties)

johnlgalt · Jun 29, 2021

Uh, correct me if I am wrong but - if you have firmwareTPM disabled in the BIOS, does Device manager still show it?

I didn't think it did....

nIGHTmAYOR · Jun 30, 2021

Guys bare with me , you do not have to base your answer that "Oh you do not have TPM ? Check again" this is not the question nor that I am ignorant enough not to be able to identify if I have TPM or not , the Question as posted is the following :

So the question is , will this mean that all these laptops will undergo planned obsolescence ? Or rather that we are about to await certain modders cracking windows to over-ride the TPM function ? Or that there will be some dongles , M2 modules to compensate for the lack of TPM ?

So please focus on that one instead ...

johnlgalt · Jun 30, 2021

In answer to your question - it depends.

For a hardware TPM module, your machine needs to have a place to attach it to. For firmwareTPM (aka fTPM), your manufacturer can possibly add it in the UEFI settings - but only if it is already supported by your CPU and chipset to begin with.

The reason people keep saying to recheck is this: If your CPU and chipset support fTPM (also called PTT on Intel boards), more than likely your manufacturer has already included it - but you (may) have to follow a certain procedure to be even able see it as an available choice in your UEFI settings.

A lot of people did not even know there was such a thing as fTPM, much less knowing how to enable it, and different OEMs have different methods to enable it. I just upgraded my UEFI FW before taking the upgrade to the Insiders build, and, although I did it extremely quickly, as this is the 7th or 8th time I've updated it, IIRC, I don't even see the fTPM for my mobo as an option until after I enable an administrator password for the UEFI settings. I could be wrong - but that is what I remember.

Other OEM machines have had other pre-requisites prior to even seeing TPM in the settings - one I recall only saw it after enabling Secure boot.

Finally, Dell has released a tool that can add the TPM to your FW for specific models - meaning they have the correct chipsets and CPUs to have the fTPM / PTT but Dell never actually included it in the FW they released for various machines. See this post: It looks like I'm stuck with Windows 10.

So, to recap - there is no 1 answer that anyone can say "Yes" or "No". It really depends.

HTH

Steve C · Jul 2, 2021

My 2019 HP ProBook is supported by Windows 11. The ProBook is from HP's 'professional' range and has TPM 2.0 support. My 2014 Dell Inspiron 7537 has no TPM so that will be stuck on Windows 10 unless Microsoft have change of heart.

johnlgalt · Jul 3, 2021

Most business-targeted machines tend to likely have native TPM support, as that is where it is predominantly used. My ancient Lenovo ThinkPad Edge E545 (AMD A6 CPU) has TPM in it.

The rest of it is pure crap for running WIn11 (heck, even Win10) - but hey, i has TPM! lol....

ch3mn3y · Jul 4, 2021

To be true I thought abut this as well. And as I know there are external USB-internal USB adapters, and some TPM modules seems to have internal USB connector, I thought if it would work. Question is if Win11 will be checking if TPM is available while updating, booting or all the time? While update having that adapter ad module is not a problem even in notebook. With perboot basics it would be problematic, but liveable. However all the time? No way...

However I don't have said module and their prices are like 10 times higher than preWin11, so I'll wait (one of my notebooks misses TPM...) till they drop. Insider seems to work without TPM, so I don't feel a need to pay premium for module that may end not usable...

EDIT: My fault, dunno why I thought tpm connector is same as usbs... Looks similar, but it's not same, so it won't work that way

alastairGreen_Nexus · Jul 6, 2021

ROG FX705GE has TPM 2.0

jimbo45 · Jul 6, 2021

hsehestedt said:
You can see if your system has a TPM from Device Manager. It will look like this:

View attachment 1306

Note that this is how a hardware based TPM appears. I'm not sure about firmware based TPM. My MB includes a firmware based TPM but I opted to add a hardware TPM so I've never seen how the firmware based TPM shows up in Device Manager.

But as was mentioned previously, you can also run TPM.MSC to get details.

Note that in either case (hardware or firmware implementation), these will need to be enabled in your firmware. For example, if you have a hardware TPM but it is disabled in the UEFI firmware, then it won't show up in Device Manager.

Hi folks
If you run in a Virtual Machine you can enable UEFI and a "Virtual" Emulated TPM even on old non UEFI machines.

You will see the same list in hardware as in previous post. If you have an old machine or a "really incompatible one" and you want to run W11 try installing in a Virtual machine. You can get a proper iso as well via UUPDUMP so you don't need to rely on the Insider Program or WU to update.

The disadvantage though of this method is that unlike an upgrade from W10 you will need probably to activate W11.

A possible (Legal) way round that would be to have an activated version of a W10 system in a VM and then upgade the VM to W11.

Another longer way possibly to ensure activation is from W7/W8 /W8.1->W10->W11. Old serial numbers of the OS'es are still working giving correct activation BTW.

(While VM's are often used for running legacy hardware/OS'es/software they can also be used to try out New OS's for which the physical hardware isn't ready yet - VM's have come a long long way both in power and efficiency in the last few years)

@Steve C

HP laptops have had TPM (V2 as well) for years - I'm testing a lot on an HP envy i5 intel laptop from 2016. Working 100% with W11. The only '?' in the W11 checklist was the CPU model and that was a yellow item (warn level) but I doubt whether that will stop W11 -- no Red issues at all.

Cheers
jimbo

Dru2 · Aug 5, 2021

hsehestedt said:
You can see if your system has a TPM from Device Manager. It will look like this:

View attachment 1306

Note that this is how a hardware based TPM appears. I'm not sure about firmware based TPM. My MB includes a firmware based TPM but I opted to add a hardware TPM so I've never seen how the firmware based TPM shows up in Device Manager.

I know this is an old post, but just want to confirm, "firmware" TPM will look the same in Device Manager. That's exactly how it looks on both my desktops running firmware TPM (aka PTT).

badrobot · Aug 5, 2021

This is also late here, but I think 2 things could possibly happen.

Laptop makers will release a BIOS firmware update to include fTPM.
or... Microsoft will come out with a new Windows edition for non-supported devices when it is officially released which will probably be a downgrade from pro if you have a 10 pro. Not impossible because it can be done right now (installing 11 on unsupported machines).
This is just a "maybe". I highly doubt any machine will be left behind.

johnlgalt · Aug 5, 2021

As for 1) - if the machine supports it, sure, this can easily happen. Up to the OEMs. I think I've read one or two already doing so. As in someone with an 8th gen Intel Core CPU or newer, or AMD Ryzen / Threadripper 2nd gen or newer on a platform that doesn't have PTT / fTPM native in the UEFI. But not for older CPUs.

As for 2) - I highly doubt this. According to List of Intel processors - Wikipedia 7th gen Intel Core CPUs first started appearing in 2016, with the bulk of them showing up in 2017. For almost all of them they are already at 4 years of age, or very close to it. With Windows 10 supported through October 2025, pretty much every single one of those CPUs will be right at or just about 8 years old. In their minds, there is 0 reason to support old, 'less-secure' hardware.

Either they reduce the requirements across the board for Windows11 for consumers, or they stick to it and people have to get new hardware by 2025 (or maybe even later, depending if there is going to be an extended support period for Win10).

Granted, I don't see the need to, as now there is going to be a big focus on how to break any potential security enhancements that TPM and SecureBoot brings to the table, and I have few doubts that it will be accomplished more and more until it's basically nothing more than UAC, a red herring of sorts. But still, this is their move. 11 is to be the Vista of the 2020s.

badrobot · Aug 5, 2021

johnlgalt said:
As for 1) - if the machine supports it, sure, this can easily happen. Up to the OEMs. I think I've read one or two already doing so. As in someone with an 8th gen Intel Core CPU or newer, or AMD Ryzen / Threadripper 2nd gen or newer on a platform that doesn't have PTT / fTPM native in the UEFI. But not for older CPUs.

As for 2) - I highly doubt this. According to List of Intel processors - Wikipedia 7th gen Intel Core CPUs first started appearing in 2016, with the bulk of them showing up in 2017. For almost all of them they are already at 4 years of age, or very close to it. With Windows 10 supported through October 2025, pretty much every single one of those CPUs will be right at or just about 8 years old. In their minds, there is 0 reason to support old, 'less-secure' hardware.

Either they reduce the requirements across the board for Windows11 for consumers, or they stick to it and people have to get new hardware by 2025 (or maybe even later, depending if there is going to be an extended support period for Win10).

Granted, I don't see the need to, as now there is going to be a big focus on how to break any potential security enhancements that TPM and SecureBoot brings to the table, and I have few doubts that it will be accomplished more and more until it's basically nothing more than UAC, a red herring of sorts. But still, this is their move. 11 is to be the Vista of the 2020s.

The problem with "breaking security enhancements", is obviously, security. And Microsoft cannot be held responsible for any problem it may cause. I just hope Microsoft will step up on this matter so people will refrain from resorting to workarounds.

Dru2 · Aug 6, 2021

Perhaps having supported hardware has skewed me, but I applaud Microsoft for pushing security and creating an OS that requires modern hardware. What's wrong with that?

As someone asked, is Microsoft supposed to support old/aging hardware/software forever? Are they not allowed to take advantage of the tools available now (no matter the tool has been around for years)?

And Microsoft isn't forcing anyone into Windows 11 as they did not the previous OS's. They're simply stating the new minimum requirements to run their latest OS.

That said, I'm fairly certain a majority of forum members here will have new PCs/builds before EOL of Windows 10 (2025) so all this worriation is just an exercise in fortune telling

Anyway, as stated my desktop is fully supported, my laptop isn't (7th gen CPU), but I plan on buying a new one once 11 is released :)

hsehestedt · Aug 6, 2021

Dru2, same exact situation for me. My desktop will handle 11 fine (latest gen Intel CPU, a physical TPM, etc.), but my laptop is 7th gen although it does have a TPM, and some really decent hardware.

Are there means to add TPM 2 to non supported laptops ?

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