Solved Help! Core temp critical when making Macrium image

Fan Control - A highly focused fan controlling software for Windows use this fan control software you can set it to run at a certain speed at temperature

tzfrantic said:

Fan Control - A highly focused fan controlling software for Windows use this fan control software you can set it to run at a certain speed at temperature

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I hope that works.

OP have you gotten anywhere with this? I was testing the newest Dell I have, a 3040 desktop model, using a 6500T cpu. I was able to run the Dell Support Assist software and tested the Hardware. Not sure if the Support Assist is any different than the Boot one you already tried. But in Support Assist you can test the Fans, both CPU and Case, fan for proper operation. When I used that software to test the CPU fan I could hear it speed up like it's supposed to.
I'm kinda curious if something has failed in your system or not.

@BamaInArk
I'm in a mess. I did run extended Dell diagnostics and everything ATP. I ordered a replacement CPU Foxcon fan of same model just in case it's the fan. But I truly do not believe it is as the Dell test doesn't see a problem with the fan. Now my idle temps have gone off the charts, even with hyperthreading off. They regularly run around 38 degrees across all cores and are now around 70. Fan speed never increases, not even on the exhaust fan. For testing I replaced the Dell fan with a new Noctua as that's all I had, bypassed Dell's fan error (Dell's proprietary crap doesn't like a Noctua) but it made no difference in temps. I even replaced the thermal paste. I don't know where to jump if the replacement fan doesn't fix it. Then it would have to be either the fan controller on the mobo or the cpu. Either way, I'm screwed.
It's a good thing I've got this 10 year old backup Dell.

If you have any suggestions, I'm open to anything at this point.

Let me add that I can set Fan speed override in bios and the fans do speed up to max speed.

glasskuter said:

If you have any suggestions, I'm open to anything at this point.

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It could also just be the temperature sensor is bad or going bad.

When you run the Fan tests can you hear/detect the fan is speeding up? How about the case fan instead of the cpu fan? Just curious if the CPU fan doesn't change speeds but the case fan does?
Change the CMOS battery. I think I'd reflash the latest bios, then Clear/Set defaults and go through the bios settings again. Bit rot?

Ghot said:

It could also just be the temperature sensor is bad or going bad.

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I hadn't thought about that but something to check. I guess it depends on what the case temp sensor affects. Perhaps the case fan instead of the cpu fan? I'll test mine out to see what happens if I disconnect it.

Cmos battery - already changed
Reset bios to default again. I had done it once already. This turned hyperthreading back on.
I ran Dell quick test again _ATP fan speed did change during test
I ran Dell Extended test - ATP fan speed changed again

restart- Now using CORETEMP temps at idle are testing 50 degrees.
ran cpu-z cpu stress test. Temps got to 100 degrees critical in 4 seconds. Fan speed DID NOT change. Stopped stress test. Cooled back down to 50
Switched over to testing with HWMonitor and Cinebench. Almost exact readings as when using cpu-z and Coretemp to test. Reached 100 critical in 4 seconds. Fan speed DID NOT change..

Are you getting any help on the Macrium forum?

So the fan speeds do change when running the Dell tests? That, to me, tells me at least part of the circuit IS working. But, for some reason, it doesn't seem to be working during normal system/cpu processes. CPU gets hotter, fan speeds up. That's a head scratcher.

50°C at idle seems a little high, maybe.

But I have no clue as to why the fan isn't speeding up when the CPU has a heavy load.

The latest BIOS update I see for the machine is 1.3.10, 1.3.10, from 30 March 2021. If it was buggy, I'd hope that Dell would have it sorted after more than 3 years.

Maybe this was already mentioned in the thread, but does the CPU hit 100°C if the CPU fan is locked at full speed?

kelper said:

Are you getting any help on the Macrium forum?

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I haven't gone there. This appears to be be a much bigger problem than Macrium. Using Macrium was just what was going on when I first discovered my fan speeds wouldn't adjust.

I've done so much in the last 3 days, my brain is fried and I've become more confused.. When the Dell fan comes in I plan to make everything stock again since stupid Dell doesn't like to be any other way. Then I'll start over from scratch so I can get a better perspective on this.
If the issue still occurs, I'm going to attempt to install an older bios to see if that makes a difference.

In the meantime, so I can figure out where the instructions are breaking down, is this how it works?
For case temps. I understand there is a sensor inside the case that reports the case temps to the hardware monitoring chip on the mobo.
But for cpu temps,is it the cpu itself that senses and reports its own temps to the hardware monitoring chip on the motherboard or does the monitoring chip itself directly read the temps off the cpu?

Then I am assuming this monitoring chip reports to the bios which in turn tells the fans whether they need to speed up or show down.
I know it's more complicated than that but do I have the basic gist of it?

bobkn said:

The latest BIOS update I see for the machine is 1.3.10, 1.3.10, from 30 March 2021. If it was buggy, I'd hope that Dell would have it sorted after more than 3 years.

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No, the latest bios is 1.26 June 11 2024.

@glasskuter


A lot of the motherboard chips have internal diodes that act as temperature sensors.
You'll see them in SSDs, HDDs, CPUs, VRMs, chipsets, the motherboard itself... etc.

Monitoring software polls these internal diodes to show the various temps.
When you look at HWInfo for example, you are seeing the temps reported by those internal diodes.

The only real way to double check to see if the sensors (internal diodes) are functioning, is use an Infrared Thermal sensing device (not cheap). They will show an image with all the hot areas in red, less hot in orange, least hot in yellow, etc.

But... without "before" images, an image taken now will not be that helpful.



The infrared images of a modern computer, look like these images...




NOTE: An Infrared Thermal Imaging device is not the "only" way... but without an oscilloscope, some logic probes and a complete schematic of the CPU and the motherboard.... thermal imaging is the only other way.

This is a really odd issue and I'm not sure exactly where to look for a solution. It would be interesting for a breakdown of exactly which sensor is responsible for changing fan speeds for cooling especially for the CPU. Assuming it's a sensor within the CPU itself. However where does that signal go for the motherboard to increase fan speed? At this point I would suspect either the CPU or motherboard is faulty. The fan seemingly is working fine.

As mentioned above HWINfo is much better monitoring options. To the point of being overkill and not knowing what half of it is measuring. lol

glasskuter said:

No, the latest bios is 1.26 June 11 2024.

Support for OptiPlex 7080 Tower | Drivers & Downloads | Dell US

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Right.

I was foolish to forget the extent to which Dell keeps obsolete web pages alive. (A year or so ago, I hunted down drivers for a Dell monitor. Dell support didn't understand what I was looking for. The only available ones were old. Worked.)


There have been many BIOS updates since 1.3.10, I see.

If the new firmware broke things, maybe they'll come up with a newer one to fix it. It may be worth contacting Dell support, although I'm doubtful they'd have a clue. Maybe it could be elevated to a level of support beyond the script readers.

bobkn said:

Maybe this was already mentioned in the thread, but does the CPU hit 100°C if the CPU fan is locked at full speed?

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No. It idles at 30 and under full load maintains at 74.

glasskuter said:

No. It idles at 30 and under full load maintains at 74.

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There you go.

Lock the fan at 100%, and wear noise cancelling headphones.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that a BIOS update has messed up the CPU fan speed control. It's too bad that Dell's BIOS settings are so limited that you can't modify the fan speed profile.

One more question and I'll quit bugging y'all.
I am 99.9% sure one of two things is causing this problem...(1)either a bios update caused this problem whereby, I no longer have bios fan control. I can override fan control in bios and all fans will increase and run continuously at full speed. Temperatures maintain at 75-80 degrees under full load. OR (2) there is a problem with some component on the mobo that controls fan control..

Regarding the bios version, It would be all fine and good if I could downgrade my bios....and I can... IF the bios I want to download from did not address any Intel Security DSA. Well, surprise, surprise, the current bios did, as did another of the three bios Dell has issued just this year. This is a restriction on how Dell has chosen to deal with the way its bios downgrade policy works. I called Dell and was told it is what it is and my only alternative is to install a mobo flashed with an earlier bios.
As someone suggested earlier, I have reflashed the current bios but that's all I am allowed to do in this case.

Here's my question. I'm looking at this device below. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. It won't help me at all with automatic fan control. I understand that. But if I read it right, I could override fan control in bios making fans run full speed, then use this device to alter the running fan speeds of 3 fans to a speed that would give me more cooling under a load but still not be so loud I can still think.

There's no way to attach a second fan to this Dell premium cpu cooler. But I do have a Noctua cooler that works with a riser and still clears when the side panel is attached. Boy is it a pain in the posterior to install. I can attach 2 Noctua fans to it. Working alone, the Noctual will throw out a fan error if I connect any Noctua fan directly to the fan header. But if I could use my Dell fan as an intake fan and make it the controlling fan off the cpu fan header. This keeps the bios from throwing out a fan error. Then connect the 2 Noctual fans off the controller using the splitter.
The only thing is, I would have to make sure the voltage draw off the header by the three fans didn't exceed its limits.

If I want to control the exhaust fan as well, I believe I would have to use 2 of these devices, one for each fan header.
What do you think? Yes? No? Maybe?