How do I get rid of the Windows 11 scroll bars and get the old Windows bars back?


Raiden

Member
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
21
OS
11
Another reason why Windows 11 is a disastrously bad software is the scroll bars.

It's not just a matter of it being hideous to look at, more importantly it is totally counterintuitive to use. You are constantly maneuvering your mouse to the thin "middle" even though it's enough for the scrolling to begin when your mouse pointer is already hovering over the fat non moving margin around the thin middle bit

But that's not all. The arrows at both the top and bottom ends are completely invisible unless you hover over the scroll bar (!) This means that you never know whether your bar is really at the bottom just by looking at your monitor. Now you have drag your mouse over the bar just to see whether you have really scrolled to the very top of the very bottom. And I have noticed that depending on your window the distance between the very bottom of the scroll bar and the top or bottom end of the moving middle bit is larger or smaller depending on window, so you really can't even just hover to know where you are; but also have to click and drag your scroll bar to either end every single time in order to see where you are precisely. I have already noticed the increased frequency of my scrolling activity.

Who in its right mind thought this was a good idea to add a (over a lifetime millions) of extra additional mouse movements AND clicks that we now are condemned to do?

No way. I don't want to submit myself to this evil and injurious menace. I want the old scroll back, where with just one look which takes less than one second, I know where I am.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Laptop 15s
    CPU
    Ryzen 5
    Memory
    16 mb
    Hard Drives
    1 tb

atinfo

Active member
Member
VIP
Local time
3:00 AM
Posts
310
OS
Win 11 Enterprise
@Raiden Go to "Settings" (or press Win+I), Accessibility>Visual Effects, turn on "Always show scrollbar".

scrollBar.png
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 11 Enterprise
    Computer type
    Laptop
    CPU
    i7
    Hard Drives
    SSD

Berton

Well-known member
Power User
VIP
Local time
5:30 PM
Posts
1,040
Location
Buffalo, Wyoming
OS
Win11 Pro RTM
I frequently use the wheel feature of pressing down on it to allow movement of the mouse doing the scroll, works in most programs.

1645110642645.png
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win11 Pro RTM
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Vostro 3400
    CPU
    Intel Core i5
    Memory
    8GB
    Hard Drives
    256GB SSD NVMe
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro RTM x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Vostro 5890
    CPU
    Intel Core i5
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Onboard, no VGA, using a DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter
    Monitor(s) Displays
    21"
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD NVMe, 2TB WDC HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender/Microsoft Security

Raiden

Member
Thread Starter
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
21
OS
11
Thanks for the heads up — but obviously no solution provided.

I want the old scroll bar. One with all components of it, including end arrows, visible at all times before I even begin to make any motion or click on the touchpad or mouse.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Laptop 15s
    CPU
    Ryzen 5
    Memory
    16 mb
    Hard Drives
    1 tb

atinfo

Active member
Member
VIP
Local time
3:00 AM
Posts
310
OS
Win 11 Enterprise
Unfortunately it has been removed (old style "Scrollbar").
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 11 Enterprise
    Computer type
    Laptop
    CPU
    i7
    Hard Drives
    SSD

hdmi

Well-known member
Power User
VIP
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
655
Location
Belgium
OS
11 Home
In addition to enabling "Always show scrolbars" like how @atinfo has explained, it also is possible for the Scrollbar width and the Scrollbar buttons size to be be adjusted individually.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 200Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

The-Hive

The First Three Star Guru
Guru
VIP
Local time
12:30 AM
Posts
11,294
Location
Wiltshire UK
OS
Windows 11 Pro
Another reason why Windows 11 is a disastrously bad software is the scroll bars.
It is not a matter of Win 11 is Bad it's just not to your liking
The old ones I thought were better but times move on
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Alienware Area 51m R2
    CPU
    10th Gen Core i9 10900K
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Geforce RTX 2080 Super
    Sound Card
    Nvidia HD
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 2TB P981A
    D: Samsung 2TB 970 Evo
    Case
    Dark side of the moon
    Mouse
    Alienware AW610M
    Browser
    Chrome and Firefox
    Antivirus
    Norton
    Other Info
    Killer E3000 Ethernet Controller
    Killer AX1650i Wi-Fi Network Adaptor
    Alienware Z01G Graphic Amplifier
    Tobii Eye Tracker
  • Operating System
    Dual Boot Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro Dev build
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 3501
    CPU
    11th Gen i-7 2.80 gb
    Memory
    16Gb
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512Gb SSD
    WD 2GB EXT
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton

Raiden

Member
Thread Starter
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
21
OS
11
It is not a matter of Win 11 is Bad it's just not to your liking
Nope, it's not a zero sum game ("just not liking" something cannot be separated from whether that thing is considered good or bad — in fact it's deeply intertwined. Window s 11 is a barely beta tested, rushed out low-rent Mac-OS knockoff. Apple continues to be the most valuable company on the planet fattening its shareholders, so the ones who own Microsoft must have increased their bullying of MS nerds, for them to come out with this.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Laptop 15s
    CPU
    Ryzen 5
    Memory
    16 mb
    Hard Drives
    1 tb

Edwin

♦ ♦
Guru
VIP
Local time
7:30 PM
Posts
5,030
OS
Windows 10/11
Between Page Up, Page Down, ▲, ▼, Speed-wheel, Auto-scroll, Two Fingered scroll and other Touch Pad gestures..., I seldom go near the scroll bar area.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10/11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS VivoBook

ThrashZone

Minor Threat
Power User
VIP
Local time
6:30 PM
Posts
1,156
OS
Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
Hi,
I just don't like when they disappear because they don't always show back up with mouse movement especially the windows settings and if there is content lower on the page a scroll bar shows there it at a glance

No scroll bar no way to know unless text is cut in half on the bottom.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    asus x3
    CPU
    10900k & 9940x & 5930k
    Motherboard
    z490-Apex & x299-Apex & x99-Sabertooth
    Memory
    Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb & Trident-Z 3600c16 4x8gb & 3200c14 4x8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Titan Xp & 1080ti FTW3 & evga 980ti gaming
    Sound Card
    Onboard Realtek x3
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
    Screen Resolution
    1920-1080 not sure what the t.v is besides 43" class scales from 1920-1080 perfectly
    Hard Drives
    To many to list
    PSU
    1000p2 & 1200p2 & 850p2
    Case
    D450 x2 & 1 Test bench in cherry Entertainment center
    Cooling
    Custom water loops x3 with 2x mora 360mm rads only 980ti gaming air cooled
    Keyboard
    G710+x3
    Mouse
    Redragon x3
    Internet Speed
    xfinity gigabyte
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    mbam pro

hdmi

Well-known member
Power User
VIP
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
655
Location
Belgium
OS
11 Home
It's not bad. It's just not to my liking the fact that it's a spaghetti, but a month from now I'll be having 32 good years of experience at polishing a spaghetti.

everything-old-is-new-again.jpg
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 200Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

ThrashZone

Minor Threat
Power User
VIP
Local time
6:30 PM
Posts
1,156
OS
Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
Wow could you find a bigger image lol
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    asus x3
    CPU
    10900k & 9940x & 5930k
    Motherboard
    z490-Apex & x299-Apex & x99-Sabertooth
    Memory
    Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb & Trident-Z 3600c16 4x8gb & 3200c14 4x8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Titan Xp & 1080ti FTW3 & evga 980ti gaming
    Sound Card
    Onboard Realtek x3
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
    Screen Resolution
    1920-1080 not sure what the t.v is besides 43" class scales from 1920-1080 perfectly
    Hard Drives
    To many to list
    PSU
    1000p2 & 1200p2 & 850p2
    Case
    D450 x2 & 1 Test bench in cherry Entertainment center
    Cooling
    Custom water loops x3 with 2x mora 360mm rads only 980ti gaming air cooled
    Keyboard
    G710+x3
    Mouse
    Redragon x3
    Internet Speed
    xfinity gigabyte
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    mbam pro

hdmi

Well-known member
Power User
VIP
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
655
Location
Belgium
OS
11 Home
Wow could you find a bigger image lol
It's so ppl can zoom in and use their narrow scrollbars to read the "everything old is new again" part.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 200Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

Bree

Well-known member
Guru
VIP
Local time
12:30 AM
Posts
6,263
Location
S/E England, UK
OS
Windows 11 Home
It's not bad. It's just not to my liking the fact that it's a spaghetti, but a month from now I'll be having 32 good years of experience at polishing a spaghetti.
Did you know that if you click on an image while composing your post then you get the option to set its display size?

1645367164824.png
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB Samsung EVO 870 SSD
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October. Windows Update offered the 22H2 Feature Update on 20th September 2022.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 4GB RAM, 128GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro 22H2 RTM as a native boot vhdx.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    i5 M 520
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround. In-place upgrade to 22H2 using ISO and a workaround.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 4GB RAM, 128GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro 22H2 RTM as a native boot vhdx.

The-Hive

The First Three Star Guru
Guru
VIP
Local time
12:30 AM
Posts
11,294
Location
Wiltshire UK
OS
Windows 11 Pro
@Raiden Don't forget Windows 10 was in the same state when it was first released, it took a long time to get it to where it is today
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Alienware Area 51m R2
    CPU
    10th Gen Core i9 10900K
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Geforce RTX 2080 Super
    Sound Card
    Nvidia HD
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 2TB P981A
    D: Samsung 2TB 970 Evo
    Case
    Dark side of the moon
    Mouse
    Alienware AW610M
    Browser
    Chrome and Firefox
    Antivirus
    Norton
    Other Info
    Killer E3000 Ethernet Controller
    Killer AX1650i Wi-Fi Network Adaptor
    Alienware Z01G Graphic Amplifier
    Tobii Eye Tracker
  • Operating System
    Dual Boot Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro Dev build
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 3501
    CPU
    11th Gen i-7 2.80 gb
    Memory
    16Gb
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512Gb SSD
    WD 2GB EXT
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton

hdmi

Well-known member
Power User
VIP
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
655
Location
Belgium
OS
11 Home
Did you know that if you click on an image while composing your post then you get the option to set its display size?
Yeah, but I couldn't make it bigger. :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 200Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF

Edwin

♦ ♦
Guru
VIP
Local time
7:30 PM
Posts
5,030
OS
Windows 10/11

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10/11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS VivoBook

The-Hive

The First Three Star Guru
Guru
VIP
Local time
12:30 AM
Posts
11,294
Location
Wiltshire UK
OS
Windows 11 Pro
No I think your right, but it was pretty ropey after 7 which was highly polished
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Alienware Area 51m R2
    CPU
    10th Gen Core i9 10900K
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Geforce RTX 2080 Super
    Sound Card
    Nvidia HD
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 2TB P981A
    D: Samsung 2TB 970 Evo
    Case
    Dark side of the moon
    Mouse
    Alienware AW610M
    Browser
    Chrome and Firefox
    Antivirus
    Norton
    Other Info
    Killer E3000 Ethernet Controller
    Killer AX1650i Wi-Fi Network Adaptor
    Alienware Z01G Graphic Amplifier
    Tobii Eye Tracker
  • Operating System
    Dual Boot Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro Dev build
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 3501
    CPU
    11th Gen i-7 2.80 gb
    Memory
    16Gb
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    512Gb SSD
    WD 2GB EXT
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton

Edwin

♦ ♦
Guru
VIP
Local time
7:30 PM
Posts
5,030
OS
Windows 10/11

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10/11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS VivoBook

Raiden

Member
Thread Starter
Local time
1:30 AM
Posts
21
OS
11
You guys use Bleachbit?

Try it. It gets worse: you have no idea there there is a scroll bar to the right: it doesn't show up when you hover over it. Mouse wheel over the whole area doesn't scrull up the screen either (not while Bleachbit is busy). But if you know the scrollbar is there then you can hover to the right and hard click a couple of times and then the invisible (invisible despite me having my Windows Accessability's "make always visible" switch turned on) Bleachbit scroll bar showed up and moves... You have to be an old user like me (who used Bleachbit before Windows 11 ever showed up) in order to know that there should be a scroll bar at all.

This is what the bottom right looks like regardless of whether you move your mouse arrow or roll the wheel or not:

Untitled.png


So imagine if I didn't know the program enough? Then I would have never ever known there was something to scroll here. Since both mouse-hover and mouse-wheel movement often never prioritizes above whatever background process is going on with the concerning application. Mouse-movement is a "softer" process that is inherently less prioritized than a mouseclick. The "geniuses" at Windows 11's Fluent Design bureau never took that into account when they came up with the new scrollbar. That's why if you ignore the visual cues and simply click repeatedly on the edge on the right, the scrollbar will eventually show up. But in order to think that you'd first have to know the software enough. If yer not familiar with the software then all you'll conclude will be that that's all there is to see in front of you. So if you never get to see scrollbars then you'd never get to scroll at all (and it's only the users of touch pad (like phones and tablets) that have the ingrained habit of moving their figners over a screen even if there is nothing to scroll. Because touch-movement happens to be a "hard" rather than a "soft" priority so you're likely to swipe on a screen regardless of whether you see a scroll bar or not. But this habit doesn't exist in the "mouse world" and can't exist because mouse movents (both the arrow moving around or the wheel scrolling the pages) are "soft" actions and therefore often they aren't prioritized above other ongoing processes. So it's very much possible that I had probably downloaded and opened (new for me) application programs and never seen a scroll bar that was there hidden, and therefore never thought of scrolling down the page to see and inform myself more.

Thanks Microsoft for this "service" of making the OS less user friendly and more mysterious.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Laptop 15s
    CPU
    Ryzen 5
    Memory
    16 mb
    Hard Drives
    1 tb
Top Bottom