How do I get rid of the Windows 11 scroll bars and get the old Windows bars back?

Raiden · May 18, 2022

One more evil defects of this new system is that if you choose "Always show scrollbar" in the settings, then what will actually happen internally is that the scroll bar would not just show up in its own space but permanently "hover" over the content underneath and block it from view. And you can't expand or widen the window to make the thing underneath visible. The bar will permanenetly move along with and hover over the content. The only way to make it visible is to disable the "Always..." option.

Just shows you how fundamentally flawed Windows 11 is. It's a regression. A backwards devolution in user-friendliness.

CountMike · May 18, 2022

Raiden said:
One more evil defects of this new system is that if you choose "Always show scrollbar" in the settings, then what will actually happen internally is that the scroll bar would not just show up in its own space but permanently "hover" over the content and block it from view. And you can't expand or widen the window to make the thing underneath visible. The bar will permanenetly move along with and hover over the content.

Just shows you how fundamentally disgusting Windows 11 is. It's a regression. A backwards devolution in user-friendliness.

View attachment 29388

Never seen that but Modern APPs have own policy on scroll bars and so does FF and maybe some other programs.
This is only thing windows controls

Raiden · May 18, 2022

CountMike said:
Never seen that but Modern APPs have own policy on scroll bars and so does FF and maybe some other programs.
This is only thing windows controls
View attachment 29390

It's incredible how primitive those so called "modern" APPs are. I have used Windows going back to 3.1, Windows 95 and so on — we NEVER had this problem ever. This problem was introduced in Windows 10 or whenever Mirosoft decided to indulge in making scrollbars thickness variable on mouseover. Before that this issue never existed and scroll bars were flawlessly operating for decades as after all they are elementary basic stuff whose problems were solved and ironed out way back in the 1970s when Windows (or rather its predecessors) were invented.

CountMike · May 18, 2022

Raiden said:
It's incredible how primitive those so called "modern" APPs are. I have used Windows going back to 3.1, Windows 95 and so on — we NEVER had this "problem" ever. This is supposed to be elementary basic stuff that was solved back in the 1970s when Windows was invented.

Yes, most are but have to distinguish between MS/Windows default APPs and 3rd party APPs. With W8, MS was trying to keep a tight grip on 3rd party but that resulted in low interest from developers. After loosening policy it resulted in more 3rd party APPs but real, professional APPs are rare with most by amateur or aspiring programmers.
Modern APPs also run in own space and set of rules and MS doesn't seem to be much interested in making better conditions.
Except for Apple where APPs are tightly controlled, Android based APPs like in Google store are also full of junk even pretty dangerous ones.
I can't foresee much improvement and use very small number. Only couple of games and few made by developers of "real" x86 programs that have same APPs for both.

entryman · Sep 12, 2022

I just installed Windows 11 and I also can't stand these new scrollbars. They are clearly for people who work on touchscreens and not desktops. I need regular normal scrollbars and they don't seem to exist anymore. In addition, the "always show scrollbar" setting in Windows 11 still slims the gray bar and hides the arrows until it is moused over. I've adjusted to everything else but not these scrollbars.

hdmi · Sep 12, 2022

entryman said:
I just installed Windows 11 and I also can't stand these new scrollbars. They are clearly for people who work on touchscreens and not desktops. I need regular normal scrollbars and they don't seem to exist anymore. In addition, the "always show scrollbar" setting in Windows 11 still slims the gray bar and hides the arrows until it is moused over. I've adjusted to everything else but not these scrollbars.

How do I get rid of the Windows 11 scroll bars and get the old Windows bars back?

Another reason why Windows 11 is a disastrously bad software is the scroll bars. It's not just a matter of it being hideous to look at, more importantly it is totally counterintuitive to use. You are constantly maneuvering your mouse to the thin "middle" even though it's enough for the...

www.elevenforum.com

pietcorus2 · Sep 12, 2022

" In addition to enabling "Always show scrolbars" like how @atinfo has explained, it also is possible for the Scrollbar width and the Scrollbar buttons size to be be adjusted individually. "..............did not work on my Win11 !

kiwisteve · Sep 12, 2022

Wondows 11 Scrollbars work fine for me.

hdmi · Sep 12, 2022

pietcorus2 said:
" In addition to enabling "Always show scrolbars" like how @atinfo has explained, it also is possible for the Scrollbar width and the Scrollbar buttons size to be be adjusted individually. "..............did not work on my Win11 !

For me it works, I have set both sliders (Scrollbar width and Scrollbar button size) to 17 in Winaero Tweaker v1.40.0.0 and am running on Dutch language Windows 11 Home 21H2 build 22000.918.

pietcorus2 · Sep 12, 2022

Tried with the two reg-tweaks , no luck , nothing changed !
Tried Aero , same result............. :nope:

Ghot · Sep 12, 2022

hdmi said:
For me it works, I have set both sliders (Scrollbar width and Scrollbar button size) to 17 in Winaero Tweaker v1.40.0.0 and am running on Dutch language Windows 11 Home 21H2 build 22000.918.

View attachment 39004

That scroll bar looks the same size as mine, and I haven't changed mine.
At least I don't think I have. Brb on Win 11.

pietcorus2 · Sep 12, 2022

Ghot said:
Those scroll bars look the same size as mine, and I haven't changed mine.

Yes , changing/not changing , makes no difference at all !
Just not possible to change , WinAero Tweaker did not fixed it either............

( are you kidding us ?)

Ghot · Sep 12, 2022

@hdmi

Yep it works on some program windows.
For example it doesn't work on Firefox, but Task Manager, (set scroll bar size to 100), the scroll bars are like 1.25" wide.

CountMike · Sep 12, 2022

Yes, some applications handle it own way.

pietcorus2 · Sep 12, 2022

" Task Manager, (set scroll bar size to 100), the scroll bars are like 1.25" wide. "..............HOW to do this ....??

Ghot · Sep 12, 2022

pietcorus2 said:
" Task Manager, (set scroll bar size to 100), the scroll bars are like 1.25" wide. "..............HOW to do this ....??

I used Winaero Tweaker. Moved the sliders to 100 and click Apply then sign out. But that broke Paintshop Pro 7.04 for example.
So I changed it to 25.

It makes the scrollbar "background" bigger too, so keep that in mind. When resized the scrollbar will still be "centered" in the background.

After clicking Apply... down in lower left corner it says to Sign Out to... enable.

My Firefox scroll bars haven't changed. But I have Firefox seriously tweaked also.

Ghot · Sep 12, 2022

I changed it back to it's default "17".
When I tried to drag and drop an .exe file from Desktop to a folder on C:\ ...it had weird black blocks around it.
Changing it back to 17... fixed that.

Well, I think 17 is default.
At 17 I see no issues with anything.

Well, I'm now back on Win 10. In Winaero the scroll bar width is set to 17, so I guess that is the default.

Probably a good idea to just leave that setting alone, in Windows 11.

I realize the issues I had with changing the scroll bar width could possibly just be happening on my comp.
Maybe conflicting with some other setting or something.

Setting the scroll bar width large, didn't kill Paintshop Pro, but it made the "draw tool" crash the program.
So who knows "what evil lurks in the minds of Microsoft".

jvickers · Sep 12, 2022

Raiden said:
You guys use Bleachbit?

Try it. It gets worse: you have no idea there there is a scroll bar to the right: it doesn't show up when you hover over it. Mouse wheel over the whole area doesn't scrull up the screen either (not while Bleachbit is busy). But if you know the scrollbar is there then you can hover to the right and hard click a couple of times and then the invisible (invisible despite me having my Windows Accessability's "make always visible" switch turned on) Bleachbit scroll bar showed up and moves... You have to be an old user like me (who used Bleachbit before Windows 11 ever showed up) in order to know that there should be a scroll bar at all.

This is what the bottom right looks like regardless of whether you move your mouse arrow or roll the wheel or not:

View attachment 28873

So imagine if I didn't know the program enough? Then I would have never ever known there was something to scroll here. Since both mouse-hover and mouse-wheel movement often never prioritizes above whatever background process is going on with the concerning application. Mouse-movement is a "softer" process that is inherently less prioritized than a mouseclick. The "geniuses" at Windows 11's Fluent Design bureau never took that into account when they came up with the new scrollbar. That's why if you ignore the visual cues and simply click repeatedly on the edge on the right, the scrollbar will eventually show up. But in order to think that you'd first have to know the software enough. If yer not familiar with the software then all you'll conclude will be that that's all there is to see in front of you. So if you never get to see scrollbars then you'd never get to scroll at all (and it's only the users of touch pad (like phones and tablets) that have the ingrained habit of moving their figners over a screen even if there is nothing to scroll. Because touch-movement happens to be a "hard" rather than a "soft" priority so you're likely to swipe on a screen regardless of whether you see a scroll bar or not. But this habit doesn't exist in the "mouse world" and can't exist because mouse movents (both the arrow moving around or the wheel scrolling the pages) are "soft" actions and therefore often they aren't prioritized above other ongoing processes. So it's very much possible that I had probably downloaded and opened (new for me) application programs and never seen a scroll bar that was there hidden, and therefore never thought of scrolling down the page to see and inform myself more.

Thanks Microsoft for this "service" of making the OS less user friendly and more mysterious.

If no one has suggested it, you can always roll back to Windows 10.

OrthodoxWin32 · Sep 12, 2022

Raiden said:
I want the old scroll bar. One with all components of it, including end arrows, visible at all times before I even begin to make any motion or click on the touchpad or mouse.

Use the Aerolite visual style. Or a custom visual style. Above all, it's pointless to downgrade to WIndows 10 just for that, it's an easily solvable issue. How to Enable Aero Lite Theme in Windows 11