How to remount this?

Almighty1 · Jun 18, 2024

I was fixing my notebook/laptop computer and the motherboard/mainboard/systemboard standoff which is for securing the bracket that also holds the fan fell off. I would like to know what I can use to re-attach it to the mainboard/motherboard/system board. It seems to be some kind of electrical conducting adhesive as it has continuity when I tested the dried out adhesive as it is probably used to ground. Does anyone know where
I can buy the electrical conducting adhesive online that is strong? Failing that, will first melting solder on the bottom of the standoff first and then position it back on the motherboard/mainboard/systemboard and then placing the soldering iron on the top of the standoff cause the solder to melt so it bonds?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Ghot · Jun 18, 2024

I googled this: electrically conductive epoxy

Highly Conductive Pure Silver Epoxy Elecrically Conductive Adhesive Easy 1 to 1 Mix Ratio Dispensing

Electro-Bond 07 is an epoxy adhesive and coating formulation based on pure silver. This versatile silver formulation offers the maximum continuity of conductivity with an electrical resistivity value of less than 1x10-4 ohm·cm. Electro-Bond 07 is also characterized by a wide operating temperature ra

conductivex.com

Shear strength: 1250 PSI (pounds per square inch).
Resistivity value: 1x10-4 ohm·cm ( that's .0001 ohm·cm)

Soldering is the proper way to do it. But... the heat from a soldering iron can spread to other components, and fry them.

When things are assembled originally... things are done in a certain order so that the heat transfer won't happen, or in a way that various heat sinks can be used.

Generally those screw mounts are soldered on before the electrical components are.
Pretty much, the last thing to go onto a mainboard are the electrical components.

Almighty1 · Jun 18, 2024

@Ghot - Wow, you are awake already. LOL. You are right that the heat from the soldering iron poses a big risk. Right now, I am typing on the machine with that missing screw. It seems like the screw mount wasn't soldered on unless they did a poor job soldering, I wouldn't have even knew it came off if I didn't try to lift the board after removing the keyboard underneath and heard something drop on my clothes and then the ground. I'll probably get that but the 24 hour wait for curing is a bit long.

ShamrockRig · Jun 18, 2024

Ghot said:
I googled this: electrically conductive epoxy

Highly Conductive Pure Silver Epoxy Elecrically Conductive Adhesive Easy 1 to 1 Mix Ratio Dispensing

Electro-Bond 07 is an epoxy adhesive and coating formulation based on pure silver. This versatile silver formulation offers the maximum continuity of conductivity with an electrical resistivity value of less than 1x10-4 ohm·cm. Electro-Bond 07 is also characterized by a wide operating temperature ra

conductivex.com

Shear strength: 1250 PSI (pounds per square inch).
Resistivity value: 1x10-4 ohm·cm ( that's .0001 ohm·cm)

Soldering is the proper way to do it. But... the heat from a soldering iron can spread to other components, and fry them.

When things are assembled originally... things are done in a certain order so that the heat transfer won't happen, or in a way that various heat sinks can be used.

Generally those screw mounts are soldered on before the electrical components are.
Pretty much, the last thing to go onto a mainboard are the electrical components.

Just translating the 1250 psi for those who need it, that also means 86.18447 Bar :)

Ghot · Jun 18, 2024

Almighty1 said:
@Ghot - Wow, you are awake already. LOL. You are right that the heat from the soldering iron poses a big risk. Right now, I am typing on the machine with that missing screw. It seems like the screw mount wasn't soldered on unless they did a poor job soldering, I wouldn't have even knew it came off if I didn't try to lift the board after removing the keyboard underneath and heard something drop on my clothes and then the ground. I'll probably get that but the 24 hour wait for curing is a bit long.

That's because of all the silver in the epoxy.
I doubt you'll find any 5 minute epoxy with silver in it.

They do make 5 minute epoxy if you decide to go that route...

5 Minute Epoxy | Quik-Cure

5 minute Expoy cures to a slightly flexible consistency and is non-brittle.

bsi-inc.com

You can also find 5 minute epoxy at Home Depot...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gorilla-0-85-fl-oz-Epoxy-42001/100670610

https://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-0-85-oz-ClearWeld-Quick-Set-Epoxy-Syringe-50112/204986141

These 5 min. epoxies will "set" in 5 mins., but full strength is usually one hour.

The reason I picked epoxy rather than say... super glue, is that epoxy has a much greater shear strength.
For a screw mount... shear strength is what to look for.

Super glue has really low shear strength.

I had a friend who used to super glue one dollar coins to sidewalks or the street.
He thought it was hilarious watching people try to pick them up, which can't be done.
Unless... you "step" on the coin and then "twist" your foot. The twisting motion breaks the super glue joint.

So... super glue probably wouldn't be good for a screw mount.

Almighty1 · Jun 18, 2024

Ghot said:
That's because of all the silver in the epoxy.
I doubt you'll find any 5 minute epoxy with silver in it.

They do make 5 minute epoxy if you decide to go that route...

5 Minute Epoxy | Quik-Cure

5 minute Expoy cures to a slightly flexible consistency and is non-brittle.

bsi-inc.com

You can also find 5 minute epoxy at Home Depot...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gorilla-0-85-fl-oz-Epoxy-42001/100670610

https://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-0-85-oz-ClearWeld-Quick-Set-Epoxy-Syringe-50112/204986141

These 5 min. epoxies will "set" in 5 mins., but full strength is usually one hour.

The reason I picked epoxy rather than say... super glue, is that epoxy has a much greater shear strength.
For a screw mount... shear strength is what to look for.

Super glue has really low shear strength.

I had a friend who used to super glue one dollar coins to sidewalks or the street.
He thought it was hilarious watching people try to pick them up, which can't be done.
Unless... you "step" on the coin and then "twist" your foot. The twisting motion breaks the super glue joint.

So... super glue probably wouldn't be good for a screw mount.

LOL, do you think the ConductiveX is strong enough though?

Ghot · Jun 18, 2024

Almighty1 said:
LOL, do you think the ConductiveX is strong enough though?

Oh yeah. With a shear strength of 1250 PSI, you'll strip the screw long before you break the epoxy joint.

The head bolts on an early 1970's car had a torque setting of 20-25 PSI.
The ConductiveX epoxy has a shear strength of 1,250 PSI.

I don't think a human arm using a Philips head screw driver, can even get up to say 40 or 50 PSI.
The Philips head screw driver would break before you hit 40-50 PSI.
And that's from some guy with arms the diameter the size of your thighs.

With epoxy, whatever type, make sure you glue the screw mount down in the right place.
Cause it's NOT gonna come off afterwards.

Almighty1 · Jun 18, 2024

LOL, I only asked because the fan is connected to it so I thought the vibrations might cause issues.

Ghot · Jun 18, 2024

Almighty1 said:
LOL, I only asked because the fan is connected to it so I thought the vibrations might cause issues.

Nothing can beat epoxy.
When epoxy is fully cured you can drill holes in it, and then tap the holes to take a screw. ^^

Epoxy is just about the toughest adhesive there is. If there's any adhesive that's stronger, I've not heard of it.

There may be something NASA uses on a rocket's ceramic heat tiles, that's tougher, but I doubt they "sell" it.

Almighty1 · Jun 18, 2024

I've used JBWeld, the one that dries grey and when it's dried it feels rubbery and still sticky even 2 years later.

Someone mentioned this, it seems to have a higher PSI rating and faster cure times:

Amazon.com

I am a NASA Astrophysicist but work from home for some time so need to ask around if I wanted what is used.

bobkn · Jun 18, 2024

There are many epoxies out there.

"5 minute" epoxy typically is poor, as regards both adhesion and strength.

The good stuff I knew in the aerospace biz was 2216. Some call it "structural epoxy". You may not like paying for it, though. I've seen it used to cement glass to aluminum. When the pieces were forced apart, chunks of glass went with the epoxy.

I'd let it cure for a full day before use, though.

It's not electrically conductive. I doubt that you need conductive epoxy.

Almighty1 · Jun 19, 2024

bobkn said:
There are many epoxies out there.

"5 minute" epoxy typically is poor, as regards both adhesion and strength.

The good stuff I knew in the aerospace biz was 2216. Some call it "structural epoxy". You may not like paying for it, though. I've seen it used to cement glass to aluminum. When the pieces were forced apart, chunks of glass went with the epoxy.

I'd let it cure for a full day before use, though.

It's not electrically conductive. I doubt that you need conductive epoxy.

Hard to tell what is needed as it seems like that part is used for grounding or else they wouldn't put that metal bracket there as it's probably the only part that touches anything metallic as the case itself is plastic. And all the other screw holes other than H54 which is identical and also secures the other fan appears to be plastic which was the reason I tested the adhesive for continuity at two different spots. I live in a place with moisture so adhesives don't set properly it seems as even the original JBWeld Grey stuff feels rubbery and sticky that paper will stick to it even a few years later. I don't even have a screw where the bracket is now due to the problem. Unlike desktop motherboards, the hole is only on one side.

Ghot · Jun 19, 2024

Almighty1 said:
Hard to tell what is needed as it seems like that part is used for grounding or else they wouldn't put that metal bracket there as it's probably the only part that touches anything metallic as the case itself is plastic. And all the other screw holes other than H54 which is identical appears to be plastic which was the reason I tested the adhesive for continuity at two different spots. I live in a place with moisture so adhesives don't set properly it seems as even the original JBWeld Grey stuff feels rubbery and sticky that paper will stick to it even a few years later.

If it needs to conduct electricity and you use regular non conductive epoxy... you won't be able to get it back off.
Epoxy is... permanent.

Almighty1 · Jun 19, 2024

Ghot said:
If it needs to conduct electricity and you use regular non conductive epoxy... you won't be able to get it back off.
Epoxy is... permanent.

Yes, exactly which was why I was trying to see if there is continuity with the existing adhesive which should be epoxy as that's not what solder looks like. With the one from Amazon in post #10, it seems like the strength is higher as this is the description:
About this item
Spec. Gravity 2.79 g/cc Cured, Viscosity Paste ot Life 30 min solids contents, % 100
Mechanical Properties Hardness, Shore D 83 Adhesive
Shrinkage linear in/in 0.003,Lap shear strength,psi 9400 Vol Resistivity ohm cm less than 0.0002
cure time 2 minutes AT 120°C,5 minutes At 100°C,12 hours At 25°C
Mix Ratio, parts by weight 100/5 Resin/Hardener

Because 9400 PSI is even higher than JBWeld Original with steel reinforced at 5020 PSI, I don't know about the electrical conductivity rating compared to the ConductiveX you had mentioned earlier though.

I know this is a 2.5gram pouch but in the second photo, I am confused on steps 3 and 4 since it seems like one is supposed to take the entire packet that is still sealed and basically pull the packet on the edge of the desk back and forth to mix it?

Ghot · Jun 19, 2024

Almighty1 said:
I am confused on steps 3 and 4

If it was me, I'd make a 1/4" slice in one pouch, and squeeze out onto something like a grease proof paper plate.
Then do the same with the other pouch. Then use something like a popsicle stick to mix them together... thoroughly.

I always mix epoxy with a little stick. That rubbing it on the desk thing, probably won't mix it very well.
And you want it mixed... well.

I would order the electrically conductive epoxy pouch from here...

Highly Conductive Pure Silver Epoxy Elecrically Conductive Adhesive Easy 1 to 1 Mix Ratio Dispensing

Electro-Bond 07 is an epoxy adhesive and coating formulation based on pure silver. This versatile silver formulation offers the maximum continuity of conductivity with an electrical resistivity value of less than 1x10-4 ohm·cm. Electro-Bond 07 is also characterized by a wide operating temperature ra

conductivex.com

Under where it says: $0.00
...choose the 2.5 gm pouch (it's $18.99 and free shipping in the US).

Ghot · Jun 19, 2024

Almighty1 said:
and still sticky even 2 years later.

If it's still sticky after 24 hours, you didn't mix it enough.
I use a lot of epoxy. For example, here's one of my model rockets.
The yellowish stuff is epoxy. That body tube is about 30" long, and 2.6" in diameter.

Almighty1 · Jun 19, 2024

Ghot said:
If it was me, I'd make a 1/4" slice in one pouch, and squeeze out onto something like a grease proof paper plate.
Then do the same with the other pouch. Then use something like a popsicle stick to mix them together... thoroughly.

I always mix epoxy with a little stick. That rubbing it on the desk thing, probably won't mix it very well.
And you want it mixed... well.

I would order the electrically conductive epoxy pouch from here...

Highly Conductive Pure Silver Epoxy Elecrically Conductive Adhesive Easy 1 to 1 Mix Ratio Dispensing

Electro-Bond 07 is an epoxy adhesive and coating formulation based on pure silver. This versatile silver formulation offers the maximum continuity of conductivity with an electrical resistivity value of less than 1x10-4 ohm·cm. Electro-Bond 07 is also characterized by a wide operating temperature ra

conductivex.com

Under where it says: $0.00
...choose the 2.5 gm pouch (it's $18.99 and free shipping in the US).

That's where I am confused as it seems like both the resin and the hardener are inside one pouch. The Atom stuff has free samples which is probably more than I need anyways but since there is the long curing time, what will I use to hold the screw standoff to the motherboard so when it dries, it will be tightly mounted without gaps?

Almighty1 · Jun 19, 2024

Ghot said:
If it's still sticky after 24 hours, you didn't mix it enough.
I use a lot of epoxy. For example, here's one of my model rockets.
The yellowish stuff is epoxy. That body tube is about 30" long, and 2.6" in diameter.

View attachment 99533

It might or might not have to do with the mixing because even with Super Glue which is supposed to stick instantly within a minute or less where it does in the more sunny/warmer parts of the city of San Francisco but over here, the glue would still be wet even 30 minutes later and the two pieces are not bonded unless I actually use something like a binder clip to clip down both sides of a item for a few hours which is why I think it might be moisture related as the temps are the same at 50-60F. I also thought it was because I didn't use enough hardener as I usually do 1:1 but increased it and still had the same results.

Almighty1 · Jun 21, 2024

@Ghot - No wonder I am confused. I was reading the product you linked to and I noticed there are 3 different stength's listed:
Compressive Strength, PSI 13500
Lap Shear Strength 1250
Tensile Strength, PSI 9500

which one is the one that non-conductive epoxies use?

In any case, I noticed ConductiveX and Atom both seem to have similar About Us pages including the diagram...

ConductiveX

ConductiveX a premium seller and manufacturer of conductive epoxy adhesives and polymers....

conductivex.com

About Us

atomadhesives.com

and one here as well:

About Us

epoxyinternational.com

I have no idea where to even get a popsicle stick to be honest. I think the other real question I have is what can I use to hold down the piece while it dries since there isn't a way I can see to clamp it down. And ofcourse, do I need to remove the existing glue off and what's the best way to do it? Thanks!

Ghot · Jun 21, 2024

Almighty1 said:
I have no idea where to even get a popsicle stick to be honest. I think the other real question I have is what can I use to hold down the piece while it dries since there isn't a way I can see to clamp it down. And ofcourse, do I need to remove the existing glue off and what's the best way to do it? Thanks!

1. Buy a popsicle and eat it. But any skinny piece of wood or plastic will work.
2. You won't need to clamp it. Just press down on it for a minute or two, with your finger. Maybe set something a bit heavy, on it... like a small square padlock, or whatever.

3. You're overthinking this.

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