Latest Dell bios installed, Windows 11 still shows it in the optional updates.

Try3 · Apr 14, 2023

@glasskuter

That's the best explanation of this strange situation that I have seen.
- My Dell used to show Firmware 1.26 and was updated [from WU] to v1.27 about two years later.
- Since then it has remained at v1.27 despite my Bios being updated through to v1.36 so I can see that your explanation fits in with my experience.

Oh, by the way, I'm sorry if I disturbed you with all the cheering, singing, laughing & stomping.
Or perhaps you had your windows shut.
My new HP Envy 17-cr0001na laptop has just arrived and it is, as hoped, a proper computer.

> powercfg -a
The following sleep states are available on this system:
Standby (S3)
Hibernate
Fast Startup
The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Standby (S0 Low Power Idle)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
Hybrid Sleep
The hypervisor does not support this standby state.

All the best,
Denis

glasskuter · Apr 14, 2023

Try3 said:
it is, as hoped, a proper computer

You go friend!!! I am sooo glad for you, Denis. You knew to do your diligent research. We know enough about the modern standby crap to know how important having a real computer is. Sadly, most buyers do not. I recently helped another member fix his problem. He was fortunaate enough to have a real computer as well...MSI/Pulse GL76. He didn't understand it, but was just glad not to have to deal with it anymore.

Dru2 · Apr 14, 2023

The "Firmware" listing in Device Manager is NOT the actual motherboard BIOS info. Period.

The motherboard BIOS for my Lenovo laptop is ver. 1.47 as shown through the update history of Lenovo's Vantage software, and also shown in the actual BIOS. Device manager shows "Firmware" version 47000. Vendor is Microsoft. Date is "Unknown" The BIOS for my custom-built system in system specs is F9. Device Manager shows "3AC" and "Microsoft" as the vendor. Date is "Unknown".

If "Windows Update" updated something it would be listed under "View update history". There are no BIOS/firmware updates listed for me.

Will this happen in the future with newer systems? Perhaps. Additionally, all one has to do is look in Windows Update history (Drivers, Others) to see what drivers were "actually" updated by Windows, to include any "BIOS" updates.

glasskuter · Apr 14, 2023

Dru2 said:
"Firmware" listing in Device Manager is NOT the actual motherboard BIOS info

Strange that in device manager it is the exact version of bios I started with then. Also strange the version number in device manage and in system information magically agree when one updates their bios through WU. We're all free to decipher it how we see fit.

Dru2 · Apr 14, 2023

glasskuter said:
Strange that in device manager it is the exact version of bios I started with then. Also strange the version number in device manage and in system information magically agree when one updates their bios through WU. We're all free to decipher it how we see fit.

If true (what does it actually show in the BIOS) coincidences are not facts.

I'm 99.999 sure if you looked at (and posted) the BIOS screen. There would be a mismatch. Additionally, I'll bet all the vendor under "Firmware" says "Microsoft" which is not a BIOS vendor. I'm also betting the date is probably "Unknown"

glasskuter said:
We're all free to decipher it how we see fit.

Yes, we can clearly see this

Fabler2 · Apr 14, 2023

Wild Bill said:
OK so just for the heck of it I went and let this "firmware" optional update install, only because when I checked the device manager it did have 0.1.23.0, while my BIOS does show the 1.24.0 is installed. So after running this optional update, the "firmware" does now show as 0.1.24.0, It's a bit confusing, but I hope a restart doesn't hose me up now.

And that's the answer. On mobile machines usually UEFI is flashed via WU and it will then show the correct version in device manager. Desktop motherboards are different, I think, as you usually manually flash those from USB anyway.

@glasskuter, sometimes you don't have the option to refuse a firmware update via WU.

Fabler2 · Apr 14, 2023

Dru2 said:
If true (what does it actually show in the BIOS) coincidences are not facts.

I'm 99.999 sure if you looked at (and posted) the BIOS screen. There would be a mismatch. Additionally, I'll bet all the vendor under "Firmware" says "Microsoft" which is not a BIOS vendor. I'm also betting the date is probably "Unknown"

Yes, we can clearly see this

See my post 11. It clearly now shows Firmware as UEFI properties and it matches System Properties. Surely it can't be any clearer?

glasskuter · Apr 14, 2023

Fabler2 said:
Desktop motherboards are different, I think, as you usually manually flash those from USB anyway.

In this case, I guess I do not fall into the category of "you". I haven't flashed thru usb in many a moon; I guess ever since Dell and other vendors made their bios updates as executables or developed certain flash utilities to handle it. Lord knows how far back that has been. I have updated bios on many a laptop the same way because almost every one I get has an outdated bios.

As far as not having an option to refuse a firmware update thru WU, speaking for my personal stuff, I have only been offered one once and that was only because I had been lax about checking with Dell. I think we can all agree the updates hit Dell database some time before they get to WU database. It was optional in WU so I just went to Dell and downloaded it from there. Since I turned off driver updates thru WU, I haven't seen another one, but I have been pretty diligent about running Dell Command Update regularly.Seems like Dell has been throwing out bios updates right and left ever since I got this machine.

Fabler2 · Apr 14, 2023

glasskuter said:
In this case, I guess I do not fall into the category of "you". I haven't flashed thru usb in many a moon; I guess ever since Dell and other vendors made their bios updates as executables or developed certain flash utilities to handle it. Lord knows how far back that has been. I have updated bios on many a laptop the same way because almost every one I get has an outdated bios.

I don't know what utilities is used for desktop motherboard UEFI flashing, just assumed it was from a USB stick. I only run laptops.

Dru2 · Apr 14, 2023

Fabler2 said:
See my post 11. It clearly now shows Firmware as UEFI properties and it matches System Properties. Surely it can't be any clearer?

I'll say again... check what's listed in the BIOS and compare (post as proof if you feel the need). Surely this can't be that hard

Peace

Dru2 · Apr 14, 2023

For clarity....

Device Manager Firmware info...

Windows 11 System Information...

Info as shown in BIOS...

Fabler2 · Apr 14, 2023

Not hard to do just pointless.

Laptop firmware updated via WU.

Try3 · Apr 14, 2023

Fabler2 said:
See my post 11. It clearly now shows Firmware as UEFI properties and it matches System Properties. Surely it can't be any clearer?

All other people are expecting is for you to accept that their results are as valid as yours.

All the best,
Denis

Fabler2 · Apr 14, 2023

Try3 said:
All other people are expecting is for you to accept that their results are as valid as yours.

All the best,
Denis

I understand and accept that but if you update via WU then device manager will report the correct UEFI version. I'm trying to get that across unsuccessfully it seems. So Device manager is buggy where firmware is concerned. Agreed ?

Dru2 · Apr 14, 2023

Fabler2 said:
Not hard to do just pointless.

View attachment 57902

View attachment 57903

View attachment 57904

Laptop firmware updated via WU.

Well then there you go. Your VivoBook laptop clearly shows the UEFI BIOS info in Device Manager. Cool

Be aware most won't show UEFI in Device Manager with BIOS info to include date, version, and vendor name. Typical is the image shown above, (or below). In fact, my 2014 Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A) doesn't even show "Firmware" in Device Manager...

However, the BIOS info is still shown in Windows System Information...

But, yes... yours clearly shows the UEFI firmware info where others don't. That said, not a surprised to see it for a laptop.

Try3 · Apr 15, 2023

Fabler2 said:
if you update via WU then device manager will report the correct UEFI version

But WU offered me a specific Firmware update 1.27 [I had originally been 1.26] and that Device manager entry changed to show 1.27.
The Bios was not involved. It remained on whatever it was at the time.
I have always done Bios updates by downloading them from the Dell site. I have never installed a Dell update that seemed to offer handing the job over to WU because there were allegations that Bios updates in WU had been rebooting computers without warning.
My Bios is now 1.36. The Device manager, Firmware remains at 1.27 because WU has never offered me another Firmware update.

All the best,
Denis

Fabler2 · Apr 15, 2023

Try3 said:
But WU offered me a specific Firmware update 1.27 [I had originally been 1.26] and that Device manager entry changed to show 1.27.
The Bios was not involved. It remained on whatever it was at the time.
I have always done Bios updates by downloading them from the Dell site. I have never installed a Dell update that seemed to offer handing the job over to WU because there were allegations that Bios updates in WU had been rebooting computers without warning.
My Bios is now 1.36. The Device manager, Firmware remains at 1.27 because WU has never offered me another Firmware update.

All the best,
Denis

Most probably your new HP will work. I suppose it's relatively new technology and depends on the age of the laptop. Here's what my ACER nitro shows,

Hope you enjoy your new machine and get that low power idle sorted to your liking if it's there.

Try3 · Apr 15, 2023

I was referring to things on my Dell in 2019.
WU offered the Firmware 1.27 update in May 2019. Both 1.27 & its earlier 1.26 are attributed in Device manager, Firmware, Driver tab to Dell but Dell's website never listed it.
I had updated my Bios to 1.27 a month earlier by getting it directly from Dell and updated the Bios to 1.28 a month later. WU has not offered another Firmware update since.

And my new computer is awful. It fails to S3 Sleep despite reporting it is capable of doing so [in PowerCfg -a] & falsely appearing to do so [its power light blinks slowly]. It just locks up instead [and Event viewer confirms that no power state change took place] and won't even respond to the power button to force a restart until I remove & reconnect external power. Hibernate works correctly. I've worked my way through HP Update app, the HP drivers & downloads webpage, WU, Intel update; between them they updated the video, WiFi & Bluetooth drivers and many others. I've completed all the logical fault-finding steps I could think of and will probably try a few illogical ones before HP customer support opens again on Monday morning.
Fortunately, when their tech support told me it should be S3 Sleep capable, they agreed to provide a postage-paid return label if the computer did not do so.
Please don't suggest anything helpful; my list of checks & attempted fixes is 1/8th inch thick and I do not want to have to type it all up in response to posts.

All the best,
Denis