Microsoft's reasoning on CPU compatibility.

Hello to all,
I have a question on the reasons why Microsoft has chosen the CPU cutoff's for compatibility on the Windows 11 installation. I understand the TMP and Secure Boot reasons (I have them both on my i5 CORE 7200U Kaby Lake-U/Y 14mm Technology) but I do not understand their reasons for this part of the cutoff point.
Is this a security reason? Speed? What does the "Generation" part have to do with it?
I have been running Win 11 on my HP ENVY for months now with absolutely nothing visual nor operational wise problems at all. Runs like a champ and a lot better and faster than Win 10 ever did.
I must be at the cutoff point with this early/mid 2017 laptop. Just barely a month or two, that's why I have Secure Boot and TMP on at the BIOS. Always was from the beginning when I bought it.
I am trying to broaden my knowledge on this point and just wondering if anyone could help me with my understanding on them subject.
I can't believe this machine has no problems at all with this CPU, or, at least, I nether find nor notice anything.

Thanks in advance for any help.

mecanicogolf said:

I am trying to broaden my knowledge on this point and just wondering if anyone could help me with my understanding on them subject.

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mecanicogolf said:

but I do not understand their reasons for this part of the cutoff point.
Is this a security reason? Speed? What does the "Generation" part have to do with it?

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Basically, it is to do with support for the new CPU Driver Model . The advantage of the new model is a greater crash-free experience. If they allowed earlier CPU generations, they could not quote higher reliability in their brochures, etc.

I run Windows 11 on my unsupported Intel Core-i7 3770 (see 2nd PC specs) without UEFI, without TPM, without Secure Boot. I have seen no issues so far except minor incompatibilities in old applications that are solved by disabling fullscreen optimization. I believe the strict Windows 11 requirements try to force us upgrade our computers or buy new. The average user doesn't need too high security in his computer, these are excuses to hide the truth

My thoughts about it are that as more security features are added the older systems might not be able to run Windows 11. Just because the older devices can run the present versions of Win 11 doesn't mean they will always be able to run Win 11. I'm not going to go into the fact that with the arrival of Win 11, MS also came out with new devices that are geared to use all the new features of Win 11.

I run Windows 11 on my intel i5-3600 and have not had one single hiccup.
Part of it may be security but as Winuser said, the average user doesn't need that kind of security, besides one can run Windows 10 with secure boot and tpm and achieve the same exact results. The CPU exploits they are worried about are pretty much non existent.

My reasoning is that Windows 11 is nothing more than Windows 10X , you see, there was not a whole lot of support for 10X when it was in development so MS cancelled the project BUT instead of taking a hit on the time and money invested in 10X they renamed it Windows 11 and vualla! MS couldn't release it fast enough.

To me , it's more about marketing than security, like I said you can achieve the same security with Windows 10 which I have been toying with the idea of going back to , Windows 11 may have it's perks but Windows 10 is more customizable , I like running third party themes and MS has made it virtually impossible to do it on 11.

I have always believed there is no such thing as true security when it comes to technology, I am absolutely sure Windows 11 has a plethora of holes that just have not been exploited yet, time will tell , 11 is still in it's infancy.
For years when Mac users boasted they were immune to viruses and the likes, I told them nothing is secure, there just wasn't enough of them for anyone to take notice and they laughed , and what do you see these days? we are even finding that Linux systems are not as secure as they boast also. Most Linux distro's are open source, open source can be good but if you think about it it could become a nightmare also.

You see, It all boils down to this ........
If there is something on your system that someone wants bad enough , there will always be a way around getting to it, it all just depends who wants it and how bad do they want it. Short of removing your hard drive or SSD whenever your pc is not in use and locking it in a vault, pc security is just an illusion. Sure your bitlocker encrypted system may be uncrackable today but what about tomorrow? or 6 months or a year from now as computing processing becomes more and more powerful?
Don't store anything you cannot afford to lose on your pc , like vital information (banking, social security and drivers license numbers just to name a few) , don't download links you don't know where they came from or trust and stay out of the seedy places on the web and you will be fine .... no matter what OS you run. I know people that are STILL running Windows Vista and XP on the web and don't have any trouble at all, the boogeymen are not waiting for you just past your router, although MS would like you to think they are.

It must be to do with the evolving instruction sets built into sucessive generations of processors. This is way above my understanding, but there are many links for the more knowledgable to explore.

@Dark Knight, I was told years ago that the only reason that Linux and Macs were not being infected was because of the smaller number of users. Hackers didn't want to waste their time on them when Windows offered a bigger target.

Winuser said:

@Dark Knight, I was told years ago that the only reason that Linux and Macs were not being infected was because of the smaller number of users. Hackers didn't want to waste their time on them when Windows offered a bigger target.

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Exactly, as Macs became more prevalent they are now vulnerable to most things Windows users are, the same is starting to happen with Linux now also.

As long as humans write the code for operating systems there will always be flaws and holes ..... no doubt about it.

Winuser said:

@Dark Knight, I was told years ago that the only reason that Linux and Macs were not being infected was because of the smaller number of users. Hackers didn't want to waste their time on them when Windows offered a bigger target.

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When I try out different types of Linux, I always find that there is a much greater attention to security than with Windows.
I did try a thread on either the W10 or 11 forum some time back to try and find out what exactly had been added to Intel and AMD processors to qualify for W11, but got no meaningful answers.

I was told security and driver issue. I have always maintained that these checks are there for a reason. One of my machines does not meet the cpu requirement so it's staying on win 10. seems common sense to me.

I just found this:

The-Hive said:

I was told security and driver issue. I have always maintained that these checks are there for a reason. One of my machines does not meet the cpu requirement so it's staying on win 10. seems common sense to me.

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But not necessarily performance. My core isolation is on "On" Windows Defender which use virtualization-based security. "Memory Integrity: Prevents attacks from inserting malicious code into high security processes". With this on, as I just double checked, I should be pretty secure.
And, this also tells me drivers are all compatible.

But how long will it last before MS says no to non compliant machines. I don't see what the rush is to get 11, apart from a few cosmetic changes there is no difference for day to day tasks.

We just like the new look of Windows 11 and we want to familiarise ourselves with the new features. If sometime in the far future our computers cannot upgrade to the latest build, there should be some workaround. By then we might have replaced them. I keep my old Windows 10 SSD just in case I need to return to Windows 10, so I won't have to start with a fresh install.

spapakons said:

We just like the new look of Windows 11 and we want to familiarise ourselves with the new features. If sometime in the far future our computers cannot upgrade to the latest build, there should be some workaround. By then we might have replaced them. I keep my old Windows 10 SSD just in case I need to return to Windows 10, so I won't have to start with a fresh install.

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I tried my old one on 11 and it ran slower than slow that is why it's back on 10 both my others are on 11 to stay

The-Hive said:

I tried my old one on 11 and it ran slower than slow that is why it's back on 10 both my others are on 11 to stay

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Mine's not that old. It's a borderline case and it runs better and faster than 10. If the CPU isn't within requirements and running like it is, I really don't care at this point. I'm not going back to 10 and a slower PC. Only if I see problems in the future. Using it for 6 months now so why go back?

Have you installed all drivers, especially the latest graphics drivers? If you just left what Windows Update found automatically, that explains why you have lower performance than Windows 10. Update all drivers, including the graphics and you should see great difference. Also search for Core Isolation and make sure the setting is off. Enabling this setting halves performance. This setting is disabled by default in Windows 10, so upgrading from 10 to 11 you are not affected, but is enabled by default in Windows 11, so in a clean installation it is on. Switch it off to improve performance. Also AMD Ryzen are known to have performance issues in Windows 11. Update to the latest AMD drivers and latest Windows updates fixes that.

The-Hive said:

I tried my old one on 11 and it ran slower than slow that is why it's back on 10 both my others are on 11 to stay

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That does seem to be an exception to the norm. My unsupported System Two with its 1st gen i5 runs 11 as well as, if not better than it ran 10.

spapakons said:

Have you installed all drivers, especially the latest graphics drivers? If you just left what Windows Update found automatically, that explains why you have lower performance than Windows 10. Update all drivers, including the graphics and you should see great difference. Also search for Core Isolation and make sure the setting is off. Enabling this setting halves performance. This setting is disabled by default in Windows 10, so upgrading from 10 to 11 you are not affected, but is enabled by default in Windows 11, so in a clean installation it is on. Switch it off to improve performance. Also AMD Ryzen are known to have performance issues in Windows 11. Update to the latest AMD drivers and latest Windows updates fixes that.

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No. I said my Win 11 runs better than 10. I have the latest graphics driver and all other drivers. I will, though, unable Core Isolation. Always thought this was higher security and didn't have anything to do with performance. Learn something every day.

mecanicogolf said:

I just found this:

Microsoft Exec: Windows 11 CPU Requirements Allow Key Security Features To Run ‘By Default’ | CRN

A Microsoft security executive told CRN that the Windows 11 CPU requirements, including for Intel eighth-gen chips and up, ensure security features such as virtualization-based security (VBS) can run with optimal performance.

www.crn.com

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In reference to the article you posted, I noticed some time ago a difference between my compliant and non-compliant machines running Win 11. If you go into System Information the following is what you'll see under Virtualization based security:


The top image is from the 10th Gen Processor, the bottom image from the 6th Gen processor where Mode Based Execution Control is emulated rather than done in hardware. According to Microsoft this is one reason the 6th Gen may be less stable. I've not experienced any difference between the machines.