Power Surge Protector Recommendation?

Buddy said:

I'll check ground continuity between

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Check the continuity between the radiator and a regular copper water pipe.
Zero or very low ohms and you're good to go.

Would be better to just buy a surge protector with a metal housing though.


Here's another way, but not very cheap...

And, that's almost funny, since pure water is a very poor conductor of Electricity, while the metal pipes themselves are Good Conductors.

The technology of UPS's and Surge Protection Strips has actually changed quite a bit in the past 40 years, when I first started working with them. I used to buy cheap power strips and add the surge protectors to them, and then resell them, at Hamfests, CB Jamborees, and computer shows.
The popular surge protector is a "Varistor". (variable resistor) They work pretty well, for single events, but not so much with repeated hits.
And, one more drawback is the time they take to "Turn On". They are slow to respond to a sharp voltage spike.
However, I've used a different device, called a "Transorb" that looks just like a very heavy duty Diode. They can withstand thousands of Hits and still survive. Electrically, they are like a very high power Zener Diode.

That said, you probably will NOT find a consumer product, (Surge Suppressed Power Strip) that would contain a Transorb.

In my own home, which is well grounded, I have at least a half dozen surge suppressors of one type or another. Their effect is additive, where the more you have, the more suppression you will get. My best one, that partially protects my MAIN PC, is a "PanaMax" which cost me $149, years ago. I also use an APC UPS, which also has Surge Suppression built in. And into that I use an multi-outlet power strip that also has Surge Protection built in. So between the wall outlet and my PC, there are three Surge Protectors. Then the PSU in the PC also has its own Surge Protector.
Even when lightning has struck within just feet of my house, none of my Computers has ever been affected.

All the water pipes in my home and even the water inlet pipe is PVC (plastic) so they cannot be relied on for grounding.
Earth grounding comes from two, 8' long, copper clad grounding rods, one at either end of my home.

All I can suggest to anyone, is just do the best you can, with what you have to work with.

Happy Holidays, Mates!

TM

Ghot said:

Here's another way, but not very cheap...

Ungrounded Outlets / Older Buildings - Zero Surge

Zero Surge's technology is the only safe surge protection for ungrounded environments. Because it does not use the ground line, it performs flawlessly and the protection is not diminished in any way. Living in historic and older homes can be

zerosurge.com

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Yikes! those suckas are steep. I've got a nice Tripp-Lite, just barely a year old. Gonna do some continuity investigations, but that's gotta wait a day or two. Thanks, all.

@TechnoMage2021
1924 house = cast iron everywhere. Water and radiator heat both.

I spent a lot of time Googling about putting UPS and surge protectors in series, and found as many well-considered articles for as against. Do you have a definitive reference?

Interesting comment about the additive effect.

Rule of Electronics. Devices such as resistors, in parallel are additive and devices in series are subtractive.
I know that sounds in error, but it's not, in this instance. (some would call it Reverse Logic)

By providing multiple paths to ground for a power spike, more energy can be dissipated.
It works a lot like a dead short to a spike.
So, multiple surge protectors on the same line are in parallel to the ground. (Additive!)

I have maybe as many as twenty Surge Protectors of one kind or another in my house. And four UPS's, all APC's.
Also, my power line has a surge protector attached to it, where the power comes into my house. That one was installed by the Power Company when they first ran power to my house.
I'm about as protected as I can get, with all plastic water pipes.

Happy Holidays,
TM

Square D whole house surge protectors are about $100.

NavyLCDR said:

Square D whole house surge protectors are about $100.

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I did a little searching and saw that. Still a bit amazed, considering I paid $70 less than a year ago for a nice 2100 joule Tripp-Lite with 8 110v AC outlets and 2 USB ports. Think I'll look into that a bit more. I assume it needs installing by an electrician.

If I had one of those on the front end, I'd be less uncomfortable with the Tripp-Lite not being grounded itself. Not to mention it would help coverage for other electronics that are now on cheap protectors. And maybe the HVAC, too?

I read that surge protectors need regular replacement, due to losing capacity with each surge they encounter, even relatively mild ones. Would that also be true of the whole-house unit?

Winuser said:

I was just reading your old post about the battery in your UPS. I recently went through the UPS popping the circuit breaker every time I plugged something in. I was getting ready to recycle it but decided to do an online search first. I found a number of post stating that a dead battery will do this on some UPS so I went ahead and ordered a new battery on Amazon. The UPS is working again and is now being used on my old desktop. Before I purchased the battery I bought a new UPS from Walmart to replace the old one. I didn't want the drives on on my new desktop getting corrupted because of a sudden power failure.

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So you are saying that the red light showing in my circuit breaker in the UPS is because of the dead battery correct? Someone had mentioned it was a grounding issue or it is because the UPS is no longer good anymore to use. I continued to use it as is like a power strip and haven't had issues with this. So I didn't replace the UPS battery. But of course when power outage happens, everything connected to it goes off.

The thing is I found out I had to 2 UPS batteries for it since it's a bigger UPS so I decided to just use it like a power strip. But it still offers surge protection with a dead battery correct? If you say to continue using it, I should replace the UPS battery?

Ghot said:

Tripp Lite IsoBar surge protectors are the best.

But no surge protector will be adequate unless the house has three prong plugs.

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Where I'm located normally, the grounding in every apartment, condo or house is not what you expect like in the US. It's literally the same.


Also what do you mean by three prong plugs? I recall someone mentioned if your building or condo or house has electrical wiring the way it is and you have to change it, it would cost hundreds of dollars at least? Thing is i'm in an apartment building so obviously that wouldn't work? If i were to move to another apartment, same issue applies as all electrical wiring is pretty much the same.


So thoughts on this? Buy a real surge protector for where I am at normally? Or continue to use the cyberpower UPS that I have but the battery is no longer good? I have continued to connect electronics to it without an issue as I'm using it like a power strip or surge protector.


Now for the other location where I'm at now, there is rarely any power outage or anything like that. So would a surge protector be a good idea or not necessary? They been using an old power strip in this location for years and never had an issue. Also no expensive electronics connected to it unless I'm here for a short time and connect my xps laptop.


Thoughts on that?

Ghot said:

See my edits above.

If you happen to have a friend who's an electrician... they might do one outlet for a case of beer, especially since you have a crawl space. Those make running wires... easy.

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If it's anything like the crawl space under my kitchen and bathroom it would probably take two cases of beer and a bottle of whisky.

Ghot said:

Any pipes that carry water will have a good ground contact... all the way out to the water main, in the street.
Water mains are like really big ground rods.


This assumes that the entire water supply is metal pipes.
On newer houses they're starting to use PVC for water pipes.




Yep, a whole house surge protector is another way to go. I don't know what they cost though.
I'm also not sure that will work with two prong plugs.

I guess it depends on where the lightning strikes.

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My suggestion was just in case the pipes aren't all metal. I replaced all of the galvanized iron pipes in my house with CPVC pipes years ago. We had very hard well water and the galvanized pipes were constantly clogging up with rust. Now we have city water and the ony metal pipe we have is the copper line from the meter to the house.

newmann said:

So you are saying that the red light showing in my circuit breaker in the UPS is because of the dead battery correct?

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What I'm saying is that I have a UPS that the outlets on the battery side won't work if the battery is dead. The circuit breaker keeps kicking out when something get plugged into them. The non battery backed up outlets worked as long as I didn't plug anything into the battery side. I took a chance and bought a new battery. I'm glad that's all it was because the batteries aren't cheap.

newmann said:

Where I'm located normally, the grounding in every apartment, condo or house is not what you expect like in the US. It's literally the same.


Also what do you mean by three prong plugs? I recall someone mentioned if your building or condo or house has electrical wiring the way it is and you have to change it, it would cost hundreds of dollars at least? Thing is i'm in an apartment building so obviously that wouldn't work? If i were to move to another apartment, same issue applies as all electrical wiring is pretty much the same.


So thoughts on this? Buy a real surge protector for where I am at normally? Or continue to use the cyberpower UPS that I have but the battery is no longer good? I have continued to connect electronics to it without an issue as I'm using it like a power strip or surge protector.


Now for the other location where I'm at now, there is rarely any power outage or anything like that. So would a surge protector be a good idea or not necessary? They been using an old power strip in this location for years and never had an issue. Also no expensive electronics connected to it unless I'm here for a short time and connect my xps laptop.


Thoughts on that?

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Surges are possible at anytime and anywhere. You don't have to have an outage to get a power surge. A working surge protector is always good to use with electronic devices.

Has anyone had computer damage prevented by a surge protector when other equipment in the house was damaged? I'm not convinced that most SPDs would actually be effective in a direct lightning strike on your local electricity or telephone cables. In the UK, the relevant testing is earth loop impedance, not resistance.

Tripp Lite recommends a 2,000 Joules unit for computers with important data. I bet 90% of consumer SPDs are way less than 1,000!

kelper said:

Has anyone had computer damage prevented by a surge protector when other equipment in the house was damaged? I'm not convinced that most SPDs would actually be effective in a direct lightning strike on your local electricity or telephone cables. In the UK, the relevant testing is earth loop impedance, not resistance.

Tripp Lite recommends a 2,000 Joules unit for computers with important data. I bet 90% of consumer SPDs are way less than 1,000!

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Even with one of the name brand surge protector I doubt if it would protect devices from a direct lightning strike. I also wouldn't be surprised if the company that made the surge protector made one jump through loops to collect on the guarantee.

I wasn't talking about a direct strike. Many surge protectors seem to be rated at about 300 Joules. Apparently a strike within a kilometer can inject current into you house via the ground connection! Yikes.

When your battery was no good... was that circuit breaker bright red by any chance before you replaced the UPS battery?


Okay so if you don't have ground in a location, does that mean even the best surge protector you buy or UPS wouldn't do anything? But if you have ground, then it would? I ask this because the location that I'm at mainly, I don't think there is ground because the construction is very old and certainly don't have that. Also even nicer buildings is the same.

newmann said:

I don't think there is ground because the construction is very old and certainly don't have that. Also even nicer buildings is the same.

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Absolutely. Please get a licensed electrician to look ASAP.

newmann said:

Okay so if you don't have ground in a location, does that mean even the best surge protector you buy or UPS wouldn't do anything?

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Yes. You must get a licensed electrician to check all the electrics ASAP.

Yes, it's the minerals in the water that causes the problem.

kelper said:

I wasn't talking about a direct strike. Many surge protectors seem to be rated at about 300 Joules. Apparently a strike within a kilometer can inject current into you house via the ground connection! Yikes.

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I think you should read your post.

kelper said:

I'm not convinced that most SPDs would actually be effective in a direct lightning strike on your local electricity or telephone cables.

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