Samsung Nvme 980 Pro SSD very slow on Windows 11

AlexDeLarge68 · Oct 2, 2022

Hello.
Even though we've got various updates during the last months, my Samsung 980 Pro still performs very bad on Windows 11.
Obviously the drivers are the Intel RST VMD, since Samsung after almost 2 years hasn't updated the Nvme drivers to include 980 Pro.
The HD is installed on an almost last generation notebook: an Acer Aspire A515-56G, with an Intel i7-1165G7, 24 GB RAM.
After a lot of months in which my notebook performances was far lower than the desktop PCs I used at office (not so new as mine - I think 3-4-5 generation older, but with Windows 10 and some sort of SSD drive clearly), I finally decided to execute the classic benchmarks, and the results were disheartening.
This is my CrystalDiskMark:

And this is my AS SSD Benchmark:

With respect with results found on Internet, they are very bad, less than half for almost all values.
Actually the notebook is not speedy as it should be, even though it's absolutely usable.
Being Generation 11th, it's compatible with PCIe 4 and the nvme port should be linked to that bus.
Does anyone encountered similar results? I suspect residual problems in Windows 11 with nvme hard disk (despite they said that they were more or less solved), or with Intel RST driver, that is the only one I can use with Samsung 980.

Help!

Thanks.

BrianInEngland · Oct 2, 2022

The CPU might support PCIe gen 4 but I bet being a laptop that the motherboard is only Gen 3

bobkn · Oct 2, 2022

I usually find it difficult to get the full specs for most Acer products.

One online review (https://laptopmedia.com/review/acer...h-hardware-this-must-be-worth-it/#specs-sheet) claims that the M.2 slot is Gen 3. The speeds you're getting are consistent with that.

I'd hesitate to call that "very slow".

AlexDeLarge68 · Oct 2, 2022

BrianInEngland said:
The CPU might support PCIe gen 4 but I bet being a laptop that the motherboard is only Gen 3

This is CPU-Z screen:

It seems to be motherboard Gen 4.

Do you think it's possible to have motherboard Gen 4 and M.2 slot Gen 3?
I was quite sure that it was all Gen 4 when I bought it in the first half of 2021.

It's even difficult to understand from CrystalDiskInfo, I guess because of the Intel VMD driver instead of a Samsung one (the transfer mode is undefined):

AlexDeLarge68 · Oct 2, 2022

bobkn said:
I usually find it difficult to get the full specs for most Acer products.

One online review (https://laptopmedia.com/review/acer...h-hardware-this-must-be-worth-it/#specs-sheet) claims that the M.2 slot is Gen 3. The speeds you're getting are consistent with that.

I'd hesitate to call that "very slow".

For random read and write and for access time it seems quite slow.
And while working (accountancy ERP, Outlook, Excel, a lot of browser sessions... tens of windows), the difference in responsivity with machines older a few years with Windows 10 is quite strong... I'm thinking to try to come back to Windows 10, after a year of Windows 11. It's a lot of work I don't feel like doing it (even if I have all my data in cloud), but if I don't find a different solution I'll have to do it.
My model is slightly different from the review you posted, it's a A515-56G-71WT, with an i7 processor... maybe it doesn't count for the M.2 port and you're right, I don't know...

bobkn · Oct 2, 2022

I am using a WDC M.2 drive, not Samsung.

WDC's Dashboard utility reports the drive's interface, and what it's running at.

Does Samsung Magician do the same?

AlexDeLarge68 · Oct 2, 2022

bobkn said:
I am using a WDC M.2 drive, not Samsung.

WDC's Dashboard utility reports the drive's interface, and what it's running at.

Does Samsung Magician do the same?

Unfortunately not, always because of the lack of a native Samsung driver, I believe

( :

BamaInArk · Oct 2, 2022

My 11th gen desktop running a 980 Pro is working fine using the Windows stock Microsoft NVMe driver. Not using the last Samsung NVMe driver. Not sure it's required to use the RST driver.

bobkn · Oct 2, 2022

The WDC and Sabrent Gen 4 drives I have use no custom NVME drivers.

This is what I get for drivers in Device Manager for the WDC drive:

I doubt that the driver is really from 2006.

BamaInArk · Oct 2, 2022

bobkn said:
The WDC and Sabrent Gen 4 drives I have use no custom NVME drivers.

This is what I get for drivers in Device Manager for the WDC drive:

View attachment 41336

I doubt that the driver is really from 2006.

I show almost exactly the same driver for my 980 Pro. Except mine has the last numbers as .317. Oddly however I show the exact same driver for the WD HDD in the system. Win11 Pro 22H2.

And btw you have to look under the Storage Controllers to see the NVMe drivers.

hdmi · Oct 3, 2022

AlexDeLarge68 said:
Unfortunately not, always because of the lack of a native Samsung driver, I believe ( :

View attachment 41306

Just disable VMD like explained here:

How to remove Intel VMD without reinstalling Windows | Scottie's Tech.Info

If you have an 11th generation or newer Intel processor, your system might be using Intel VMD. VMD, or Volume Management Device, is a server-ish bit of technology where your processor more or less "hijacks" the management of NVMe disk drives in your puter. When VMD is enabled, you MUST use...

scottiestech.info

Next, the NVMe controller of your Samsung 980 Pro should "magically" appear:

If the M.2 slot on your laptop's motherboard is only PCIe 3.0, probably it's because of the fact that the Elpis controller on the Samsung 980 Pro can push up to 8 watts of power and early Tiger Lake UP3 laptops (from late 2020 till early 2021) usually didn't have the thermal specs for that kind of stuff yet─and neither does mine.

hdmi · Oct 3, 2022

bobkn said:
The WDC and Sabrent Gen 4 drives I have use no custom NVME drivers.

...And neither does the Samsung 980 Pro.

bobkn · Oct 3, 2022

hdmi said:
...And neither does the Samsung 980 Pro.

I'm fairly sure that the OP knew that.

My point was that some Gen 4 NVME drives get full performance using only the Microsoft drivers.

DigitalGoat · Oct 3, 2022

I have a Gen4 board with a Western Digital Blue SN570, I also have Intel's RST drivers installed and loaded (the board has Intel RAID available) but the WD is using the Windows default NVME driver.

CrystalDisk gives these results, they are pretty close to the OP's, the WD Blue is Gen3x4 on a Gen4x4 connection:

Unless the OP needs the RST drivers for an Optane cache or for running Intel RAID they could possibly be removed, first checking they are not boot critical, but that is probably not worth while in this instance.

hdmi · Oct 3, 2022

DigitalGoat said:
I have a Gen4 board with a Western Digital Blue SN570, I also have Intel's RST drivers installed and loaded (the board has Intel RAID available) but the WD is using the Windows default NVME driver.
View attachment 41396

CrystalDisk gives these results, they are pretty close to the OP's, the WD Blue is Gen3x4 on a Gen4x4 connection:

View attachment 41397

Unless the OP needs the RST drivers for an Optane cache or for running Intel RAID they could possibly be removed, first checking they are not boot critical, but that is probably not worth while in this instance.

Per the article I linked in my 1st reply to this thread, disabling VMD can give you noticeably faster boot times (3 seconds vs 6 seconds in that example so 2× faster). I'd say it's definitely worth disabling VMD when possible to be disabled, as it's such an easy "fix" anyway.

pparks1 · Oct 3, 2022

Even at Gen 3 speeds, the overall snappiness and usable performance of your laptop should still be top notch. The difference between 3,000, 4500, or 7000 MBps is pretty much non-existent as far as overall OS booting and launching applications goes.

PerpetualCycle · Oct 3, 2022

bobkn said:
I'm fairly sure that the OP knew that.

My point was that some Gen 4 NVME drives get full performance using only the Microsoft drivers.

Intel RST drivers provide full speed.

The OP is running at Gen 3 speed of the lanes from chipset. The processor provides Gen 4 lanes, but probably only for the graphics.

Around 3500 is the maximum for Gen3. The fact it isn't quite there is probably a motherboard or processor limitation, not Intel RST drivers.

hdmi · Oct 5, 2022

AFAIK it is a motherboard design limitation in the particular sense that this particular CPU (i7-1165G7) supports four lanes of PCIe 4.0 directly off the CPU, but the southbridge that this CPU uses, which is of the On-Package variety so it uses OPI (On Package Interface), is still limited to twelve HSIO lanes─that the manufacturer has to configure with the "FIT"─so it gives three PCIe 3.0 controllers to work with.

See:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/platforms/details/tiger-lake-up3.html
PCI Express* Port Support Feature Details - 006 - ID:631119 | Intel® 500 Series Chipset Family On-Package PCH Datasheet Volume 1

Mine uses PCIe Root Port 9 for the M.2 slot so PnPUtil gives me this:

Code:

C:\>pnputil /enum-devices /relations /class diskdrive
Microsoft PnP Utility

Instance ID:                SCSI\Disk&Ven_NVMe&Prod_Samsung_SSD_980\5&10af3918&0&000000
Device Description:         Samsung SSD 980 PRO 2TB
Class Name:                 DiskDrive
Class GUID:                 {4d36e967-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Manufacturer Name:          (Standaardschijfstations)
Status:                     Started
Driver Name:                disk.inf
Parent:                     PCI\VEN_144D&DEV_A80A&SUBSYS_A801144D&REV_00\4&8a0518e&0&00E8


C:\>pnputil /enum-devices /relations /instanceid "PCI\VEN_144D&DEV_A80A&SUBSYS_A801144D&REV_00\4&8a0518e&0&00E8"
Microsoft PnP Utility

Instance ID:                PCI\VEN_144D&DEV_A80A&SUBSYS_A801144D&REV_00\4&8a0518e&0&00E8
Device Description:         Standard NVM Express Controller
Class Name:                 SCSIAdapter
Class GUID:                 {4d36e97b-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Manufacturer Name:          Standard NVM Express Controller
Status:                     Started
Driver Name:                stornvme.inf
Parent:                     PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_A0B0&SUBSYS_A0251E39&REV_20\3&11583659&5&E8
Children:                   SCSI\Disk&Ven_NVMe&Prod_Samsung_SSD_980\5&10af3918&0&000000


C:\>pnputil /enum-devices /instanceid "PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_A0B0&SUBSYS_A0251E39&REV_20\3&11583659&5&E8"
Microsoft PnP Utility

Instance ID:                PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_A0B0&SUBSYS_A0251E39&REV_20\3&11583659&5&E8
Device Description:         Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #9 - A0B0
Class Name:                 System
Class GUID:                 {4d36e97d-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Manufacturer Name:          INTEL
Status:                     Started
Driver Name:                oem48.inf
Extension Driver Names:     oem20.inf


C:\>

For some additional reading. As of Skylake-U, OPI became the new norm in Intel mobile CPUs designed for laptops:

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hdmi · Oct 5, 2022

My guess is that having enabled VMD in the BIOS won't help you achieve PCIe 4.0 on the M.2 slot, when the slot has been soldered to the PCIe 3.0 controller that's in the On-Package PCH-LP as opposed to has been soldered to the VMD port of the CPU. Hence, the "Direct CPU Attach" (verbiage that you see in the bottom left corner of the 2nd pic in the article linked below) doesn't apply to the actual slot in question─probably due to thermal constraints [of the system design] like I tried to explain previously in the thread. Or if it does, the BIOS still prevents GT4 so as a result you're stuck with GT2 which means you'll get two lanes of PCIe 4.0 so, still not four lanes of PCIe 4.0 and so it still boils down to the same, speed wise.

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AlexDeLarge68 · Oct 8, 2022

hdmi said:
Just disable VMD like explained here:

How to remove Intel VMD without reinstalling Windows | Scottie's Tech.Info

If you have an 11th generation or newer Intel processor, your system might be using Intel VMD. VMD, or Volume Management Device, is a server-ish bit of technology where your processor more or less "hijacks" the management of NVMe disk drives in your puter. When VMD is enabled, you MUST use...

scottiestech.info

Next, the NVMe controller of your Samsung 980 Pro should "magically" appear:

View attachment 41384

If the M.2 slot on your laptop's motherboard is only PCIe 3.0, probably it's because of the fact that the Elpis controller on the Samsung 980 Pro can push up to 8 watts of power and early Tiger Lake UP3 laptops (from late 2020 till early 2021) usually didn't have the thermal specs for that kind of stuff yet─and neither does mine.

OK, tried everything. With NVM Standard Express it's possible to see the hardware configuration in HWINFO and in Samsung Magician: you were right, Acer is a theoretically s PCI gen4 but has a nvme Gen3. So the results about the nvme SSD are more or less OK, just a little slow I think. But the difference for everyday work between Windows 10 and Windows 11 is still huge. I guess it's a problem with this Acer i7-1165G7. I will revert to Windows 10, after one year of use, in the next weeks when I will have time enough.
I'm quite convinced it was not a good Acer generation for the price at the beginning of 2021.
Anyway, the NVM Express gives nothing more than Intel VMD, and moreover the system seems less stable. I completely disagree that is a good solution, at least for this machine.
But it's not possible to come back to Intel VMD, activating it in the BIOS and restart in safe mode (while this method worked passing to NVM Standard controller). The system doesn't find the drivers (and I didn't erase them), so the system doesn't boot up.
Any hint on how to reload the RST VMD drivers before booting the machine?

Thanks in advance
Alex

Samsung Nvme 980 Pro SSD very slow on Windows 11

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