Since 22H2, File Explorer windows sometimes spontaneously move to the front

worldofneil · Dec 31, 2022

Anyone with the problem using ExplorerPatcher? I have this happen on two systems and although it happens on a group policy refresh as mentioned above, both machines are running ExplorerPatcher which may/may not be related.

Latest release version 22621.963, one Pro, one Enterprise.

barreleye · Dec 31, 2022

worldofneil said:
Anyone with the problem using ExplorerPatcher? I have this happen on two systems and although it happens on a group policy refresh as mentioned above, both machines are running ExplorerPatcher which may/may not be related.

Latest release version 22621.963, one Pro, one Enterprise.

No ExplorerPatcher here or anything like it.

glasskuter · Dec 31, 2022

Since 11 came out, I have learned that running fullscreen windows causes weird things to happen from time to time. Instead of running explorer (or any other app) full screen, try changing its properties to run as normal window. Then drag the edges of explorer window to fill the screen. Windows will remember the size. See if that makes any difference in what assumes focus.

FYI in the feedback hub, others have reported this. Here is MS response.
Thanks for reporting this - Focus Assist will turn on if it detects one of the scenarios defined by the automatic rules under Settings > System > Focus Assist. If you'd prefer that Focus Assist not turn on automatically, switch off the automatic rules. Then, you can choose to manually enable Focus Assist when you'd like via right-clicking the Action Center button in the corner of the taskbar, or from the Focus Assist quick action button at the bottom of the Action Center (WIN+A) once you open it.

barreleye · Dec 31, 2022

glasskuter said:
Since 11 came out, I have learned that running fullscreen windows causes weird things to happen from time to time. Instead of running explorer (or any other app) full screen, try changing its properties to run as normal window. Then drag the edges of explorer window to fill the screen. Windows will remember the size. See if that makes any difference in what assumes focus.

Explorer is one of the few programs I don't run maximized, and it's not a big enough problem for me to experiment with any of my other programs. Like I said in my OP, I normally don't leave Explorer windows open for long periods of time, and I'm mainly sort of amused that the arms race to prevent apps from doing this on purpose has gone from ineffective to wretched surrender to Microsoft doing it randomly for no reason in something as fundamental as File Explorer.

FYI in the feedback hub, others have reported this. Here is MS response.
Thanks for reporting this - Focus Assist will turn on if it detects one of the scenarios defined by the automatic rules under Settings > System > Focus Assist. If you'd prefer that Focus Assist not turn on automatically, switch off the automatic rules. Then, you can choose to manually enable Focus Assist when you'd like via right-clicking the Action Center button in the corner of the taskbar, or from the Focus Assist quick action button at the bottom of the Action Center (WIN+A) once you open it.

I will try disabling Focus Assist. I don't know what it is, and I certainly don't want it. There's no plausible reasoning for it to cause this behavior, so I think that's a really poor response from Microsoft. OK, so I just looked, and I see nothing about rules, automatic or otherwise, and the Settings option is called "Focus", not "Focus Assist". The only relevant thing is a button that contains "Start focus session", so given that I've never started a session, I assume the feature's never been active anyway.

Winuser · Dec 31, 2022

glasskuter said:
None of you having this problem has indicated what version of 11 you are running. (My guess would be one of the insider builds.) For me, the release version has never had this problem. Search your feedback hub to see if others on insider have reported the same problem and if MS has responded.

I'm running the latest Dev build (25267) and I'm not having that problem.

Winuser · Dec 31, 2022

barreleye said:
Explorer is one of the few programs I don't run maximized, and it's not a big enough problem for me to experiment with any of my other programs. Like I said in my OP, I normally don't leave Explorer windows open for long periods of time, and I'm mainly sort of amused that the arms race to prevent apps from doing this on purpose has gone from ineffective to wretched surrender to Microsoft doing it randomly for no reason in something as fundamental as File Explorer.

I will try disabling Focus Assist. I don't know what it is, and I certainly don't want it. There's no plausible reasoning for it to cause this behavior, so I think that's a really poor response from Microsoft. OK, so I just looked, and I see nothing about rules, automatic or otherwise, and the Settings option is called "Focus", not "Focus Assist". The only relevant thing is a button that contains "Start focus session", so given that I've never started a session, I assume the feature's never been active anyway.

Try right clicking on the Action Center Icon (far right) and hoover your mouse over Focus Assist.

glasskuter · Dec 31, 2022

Per this article Turn off notifications in Windows during certain times - Microsoft Support

"Do not disturb allows you to avoid distracting notifications when you need to stay focused. It's set by default to activate automatically when you're duplicating your display, playing a game, or using an app in full screen mode. You can control any or all of these, as well as determining to what level notifications are suppressed."

To stop focus from activating automatically (ie: do not disturb) go to settings>system>notifications>UNCHECK everything under "Turn on Do Not Disturb automatically."

barreleye · Dec 31, 2022

Winuser said:
Try right clicking on the Action Center Icon (far right) and hoover your mouse over Focus Assist.
View attachment 48783

Yeah, I don't see that.

glasskuter said:
Per this article Turn off notifications in Windows during certain times - Microsoft Support

"Do not disturb allows you to avoid distracting notifications when you need to stay focused. It's set by default to activate automatically when you're duplicating your display, playing a game, or using an app in full screen mode. You can control any or all of these, as well as determining to what level notifications are suppressed."

To stop focus from activating automatically (ie: do not disturb) go to settings>system>notifications>UNCHECK everything under "Turn on Do Not Disturb automatically."

I've had "Do not disturb" turned on since forever, and I can't remember the last time I saw one of those useless notifications. I truly hated them.

MasoudRahmani · Jan 2, 2023

glasskuter said:
None of you having this problem has indicated what version of 11 you are running. (My guess would be one of the insider builds.) For me, the release version has never had this problem. Search your feedback hub to see if others on insider have reported the same problem and if MS has responded.

Microsoft Windows 11 Professional (x64) Build 22621.963
Version 22H2
Version 10.0.22621 Build 22621
---
never used focus in windows 11, turned off first thing - always had do not disturb on, since windows 8 (didn't like big notification).

okrimirko · Jan 2, 2023

Hi. I've been following this thread because I started to notice this randomly happening on my W11 22H2 (Build 22621.963) for a few weeks now.
I don't know if it may help the investigations, but in my case I realised that it happens whenever the battery is unloading and reaches 19%.

glasskuter · Jan 2, 2023

@okrimirko Welcome to the forum. That is a very helpful observation. If the OP is using a laptop,perhaps he can test his own system to see if a discharging battery level is the cause of his problem.

OAT · Jan 2, 2023

No, thank you for the hint but sadly that is not it. Batteries on both systems are always charged.
I was thinking of a different keybord layout as I use Azerty myself.
The issue is not frequent, about once a day.
There is no pattern, it's just that the back window pane suddenly comes to front; by itself.
This is actually spooky as I could be reading something on the web or typing in notepad,
whatever I am doing goes in the background, and an Explorer window previouly in the background
is now front.

barreleye · Jan 2, 2023

glasskuter said:
@okrimirko Welcome to the forum. That is a very helpful observation. If the OP is using a laptop,perhaps he can test his own system to see if a discharging battery level is the cause of his problem.

OP is not using a laptop. There's no pattern or precipitating factor I've been able to identify. FWIW, redditors have just begun discussing the problem. I didn't start that thread, nor do I plan to participate in it. I don't have anything to add to what they've said so far.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/101a17g

Ranes88 · Jan 4, 2023

Thought I'd add my 2c to this thread.

I built this system just before Christmas last year, though it's taken a little while to realize this is an issue. I have noticed it a few times whilst watching VLC full screen. I also run virtual desktops, so have come back to my desk and noticed that the desktop (which I never leave active unattended) has re-gained focus which is what highlighted the fact there was an issue.
As I said, it's taken a while but it now seems that there is a pattern to this, and isn't just happening randomly like others have mentioned. I've narrowed it down to a scheduled task for the ASUS Software update (see attached image). When I noticed it had happened yesterday (around 5 minutes after the task had run) I decided to do a test today and watch what happened:
On each of the 3 desktops, each had one explorer window open, though only Desktop 3 was active (the other two minimized). Desktop 1 & 2 had a different browser maximized, Desktop 3 nothing apart from the active Explorer window. I ensured Desktop 1 was in focus and then sat back to watch.
Sure enough, around 40 seconds after the task was due to run and focus automatically shifted to Desktop 3.
Now, whether Minimizing the windows makes a difference or not is a test for tomorrow.

SkyBeam · Jan 4, 2023

Ranes88 said:
I've narrowed it down to a scheduled task for the ASUS Software update (see attached image).

This might be related but not the only cause.
At least I can confirm that I am running a recent ASUS mainboard too (ASUS PRIME X670-P). I also confirm that it has installed the crappy ARMOURY CRATE tool. This thing is an absolute catastrophic collection of bad code and bad design decisions requiring admin-privileges on every run just to show a crappy RGB management tool. So I never got it to work properly. It also installs a mix of modern apps, services, task scheduler entries, drivers and traditional desktop applications. The design is just crappy in soooo many ways.
Initially I tried to install it to play with some Aura effects and ARGB on my new build but I completely gave up on Armoury Crate as this thing is really broken by design beyond any repair. No wonder it's actually shortlisted in the worst-of-worse list about RGB management software in a recent video of der8auer.

So back on topic. I have uninstalled Armoury Create already and have done so using ASUS dedicated uninstall tool. You can find it for download in the support section. Note: You need to click on "show all" to see not only the installer but also the uninstall tool.
I do also recommend to enter you system BIOS (press "delete" during POST) and disable installation of Armoury Craate:

Enter EFI setup: Press "DEL" during POST
Press F7 to enter advanced setup
Go to Tool > ASUS Armoury Crate and set the "Download & Install ARMORY CRATE app" to DISABLED

Note: As of my knowledge leaving this BIOS option enabled will make Windows 11 ask you to install ARMOURY CRATE when booting up your system. Basically this feature was added to allow automatic installation of vendor tools via Microsoft store. So even on a fresh Windows 11 retail installation it will try to install ARMOURY CRATE automatically. However currently my assumption is that only the prompt to install ARMORY CRATE is shown but it's not automatically deploying it.

I did however experiment with ARMORY CRATE and uninstalled every piece of it, also manually cleaning off any ASUS related task scheduler entries and removing the ASUS folder from %ProgramFiles(x86)% (well, speaks for itself that the tool is still a legacy 32-bit application)...

But I am still experience this focus-stealing issues. So I might be left attempting a complete re-install with the ARMOURY CRATE option in EFI setup disabled this time.

Another thing I just did now after getting some hint it might be ASUS related... I checked my registry for services related to ASUS assuming the uninstall tool might not have done a very good job. And I found 2 drivers which were likely left behind:

Published Name: oem37.inf
Original Name: rogkb.inf
Provider Name: ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Class Name: Keyboard
Class GUID: {4d36e96b-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Driver Version: 07/25/2022 1.0.32.0
Published Name: oem36.inf
Original Name: rogms.inf
Provider Name: ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Class Name: Mouse
Class GUID: {4d36e96f-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Driver Version: 07/25/2022 1.0.45.0

You can find them using pnputil on an admin command-prompt:

Code:

pnputil /enum-drivers

I have removed them now:

Code:

pnputil /delete-driver oemXX.inf /uninstall

NOTE: If you are going to do the same the oemXX.inf number might be different. Make sure not to delete other drivers. Only do this if you know what you are doing.
I have no clue (yet) if those drivers are related but I can confirm my system has been invaded at some time by the same crappy ARMOURY CRATE software. So this is something we have in common. Though the task scheduler entries were delete long ago but also I can confirm the uninstall tool is not doing a good job.

I do strongly recommend to disable Armoury Crate in EFI setup before doing a fresh installation and stay away from this piece of software - even if it will turn out not to be the root cause of this specific issue. Do NOT install Armoury Crate under any circumstances!

Btw. I have moved to OpenRGB to control ARGB/Aura in my PC. As of what I can see it only installs a communication driver and does not require admin privileges to run.

WXC · Jan 4, 2023

Welcome to ElevenForum, @Ranes88 and @SkyBeam.

SkyBeam · Jan 4, 2023

SkyBeam said:
This might be related but not the only cause.

Just some update. I did not reboot after the drier removal of before but Just Explorer jumped to the foreground again at 12:37 CET here. The only event logged in Windows event logs is Event ID 1500 about a successful group policy update (with no changes).

I don't see how this is related though. Also gpupdate and gpupdate /force do not cause any focus stealing, despite the same events being generated.

SkyBeam · Jan 4, 2023

SkyBeam said:
I don't see how this is related though. Also gpupdate and gpupdate /force do not cause any focus stealing, despite the same events being generated.

It just happened again and I can confirm that I do have another successful group policy update event in event log at just the same timeframe.

Next thing I might try is to disable policies which effect explorer - for example I do have policies for drive maps and creation of network location shortcuts. Perhaps Explorer is misbehaving and gathering focus while updating those items or other explorer-related policies.
At least I wouldn't be surprised if some developers at Microsoft don't even know any more about what GPO is and how they are applied and introduced code causing issues with GPO. Just as they already caused issues with roaming profiles and SRP with various Microsoft apps deploying binaries to user home directory just like any other malware.
Well, let's see if this can be further nailed down as some people here might not use GPO at all. Not sure if in those scenarios some internal policy update tasks are still running even if the machine is not domain-joined.

barreleye · Jan 4, 2023

Asus software is not a necessary factor. FWIW, all my motherboards are Asus, but I don't install their software, I have no Asus task, and I disable their BIOS rootkit that dumps an Armoury Crate executable into the Windows folder even on Bitlockered drives like all of mine.

[Motherboard] How to disable automatic download of Armoury Crate? | Official Support | ASUS Global

KrazyLurt · Jan 4, 2023

I dont have a ASUS software or services running, use a Gigabyte mb. Only ASUS hardware is my ASUS TUF 3080 and I would not touch armory crate , even with a 10 foot pole.