The Ugly side of "immutable Linux Distros / Atomic distros e.g micros / kinoite etc""

Hi folks

I've been playing around with some of these -- and for those who don't install much software or don't need VM's they are fine as they can be locked down safely - and makes systems really "User proof".

BUT three basic issues here with the current implementation of these remains.

1) almost any extra piece of software you need to add that's a "Windowed" GUI type and not in the standard "Flathub" or other repository needs to be installed either via a "bypass mechanism" usually known as layering which is another whole other ballgame.

2) running a load of GUI applications from containers puts a lot of extra load on the system (fine for big corporate stuff) -- I'm addressing the "Domestic / Small busines crowd here"

3) creating and running any sort of VM's using Linux's excellent KVM/QEMU taxes any even PhD brains to the limit and even after 2 weeks with this stuff I haven't got a VM to work properly using KVM/QEMU if even defined one at all !! I got "half way" with "Layering it via the "classical install stuff" but I couldn't get things like usb-redirect or even adding hardware usb host devices to work at all.

Using a standard distro this stuff just "works" straight OOTB. - These "Atomic" distros are basically a good idea but "oh dear" a long way from mainstream for anybody who wants to use a computer in any way different from a mobile phone !! and install software from "3rd party sources" or repos".

Probably worth trying again in around 12 months time but for many -- NOT MAINSTRAM YET.

This post won't be of much interest to Windows HOST users but a load here DO use Linux hosts - and might be tempted to try these -- they could work in a VM - but then if you want to add software to these you'll still get the same problem - and probably have to use a 2nd level or nested VM with also extra overhead to get a Windows VM running on these.

By contrast I just installed a "bog standard " Opensuse rawhide" host (as a test as I've already got Fedora etc) and wanted one from scratch.

Installation around 9 mins and around 20 for a Windows enterprise VM with loads of apps on it plus Office 2021 LTSC.

So folks "Atomic desktops" -- very nice in theory but not for me yet.

Screenshot -- around 30 min work on an old 8 year old laptop - including the HOST OS and the Windows 11 Enterprise VM.



Not suggesting you use Opensuse tumbleweed -- I was just using it because I wanted to use a distro I had limited experience of - to get a realistic idea of time -- using Archlinux or Fedora both of which I have experience with isn't a fair comparison since I know most of the tricks, package management etc and probably could have cut down on the install time !!

Cheers
jimbo

atomic immutable system are not for everyone also there doesn't seem to be a live version
its install or dont install and wont life along side other distro's. it also has limitations
because the /root file system is read only which means a completely new way of looking at the system.

but i have Fedora SilverBlue running the way i want it with flatpaks
gnome extensions is your friend here as they work from the home folder not the /root folder.

im still finding my way around SilverBlue and it would seem i have a long way to go
to fully start understanding the underlying system, its a learning curve but one i am enjoying.

best of luck, Steve ..

It requires an adjustment because you will rely on flatpaks to get software. Ideally, this is the case. Some software won't be available so you'll have to layer traditional software to fill in the gap.

You can't edit and customise the old way. You'll have to do it through your local directory.

In some ways, its easier and more predictable. If you're a power user, an immutable distro probably isn't a good fit.

NormanF said:

If you're a power user, an immutable distro probably isn't a good fit.

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I hate the term Power User. It is such a pompous term.

"I am a Power User“ is just a back slapping term to suggest user is somehow superior to other users.

Everybody is a Power User as it is impossible to run a pc without using power.

"Power User" is a derogatory term MS uses for people who want to own their own hardware.

DJNelson said:

"Power User" is a derogatory term MS uses for people who want to own their own hardware.

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What does Microsoft expect? That you will lease your hardware (mainframe of course) like companies did 60 years ago from IBM?

x509 said:

What does Microsoft expect? That you will lease your hardware (mainframe of course) like companies did 60 years ago from IBM?

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"You will own nothing and be happy"

jimbo45 said:

creating and running any sort of VM's using Linux's excellent KVM/QEMU taxes any even PhD brains to the limit and even after 2 weeks with this stuff I haven't got a VM to work properly using KVM/QEMU if

Click to expand...

That is scary stuff and I don’t even have PhD brains.