time to replace components in wife's computer for dreaded Win10 to Win11

pseymour · May 12, 2025

Levitate11 said:
Which part are you doubting? The part where Dave Cutler designed WNT based on VMS?

Levitate11 said:
"Remember HAL ... shift ahead one letter in the alphabet and get IBM? Windows NT (WNT)... is one letter ahead of VMS, which Dave Cutler (grabbed by MS from DEC) made hefty use of when he led the design of of WNT for Microsoft."

It started with this nonsense about shifting letters to get to IBM and WNT. But then you say Microsoft "grabbed" Cutler from DEC. Well, they hired him. You're implying that they hired him to steal design from DEC. But what is Cutler supposed to do? Forget everything he knows about operating systems? If I make Fancy Web App, and it's a hit, and then MegaCorp hires me to make Fancy Phone App, should I just forget everything I know about software development? Not gonna happen.

Levitate11 said:
Or the part where you yourself acknowledged that MS needs to isolate the files/functions such that they could head towards real security?

When did I say that?

pseymour · May 12, 2025

Levitate11 said:
Conspiracy? No.

Coordination with hardware vendors on pushing the leading edge as the only option with disregard for those home mom and pop users, yes.

Here's the thing, champ. You don't have to run Windows 11.

gunrunnerjohn · May 12, 2025

My old hardware was good for almost ten years, I figured it didn't owe me anything after that run, so my Win11 box is all new.

Scannerman · May 12, 2025

Levitate11 said:
Conspiracy? No.

Coordination with hardware vendors on pushing the leading edge as the only option with disregard for those home mom and pop users, yes.

20% is still a thick slice. They don't call it the Consortium for nothing and no, it is isn't all about Windows. The big push is on for hardware and at the commercial/industrial level we're talking billions and billions. Mom and Pop are simply just getting caught in the jet stream and let's face it — all those new AI features are going to be pretty useless on the home front if the older hardware can't use them. They may not call themselves the Consortium Group anymore, but that's how they started and you can best believe they're still at it.

pseymour · May 12, 2025

Scannerman said:
at the commercial/industrial level we're talking billions and billions

We pay the same, whether we're using 7 or 8 or 10 or 11 or 12.

Scannerman · May 12, 2025

gunrunnerjohn said:
My old hardware was good for almost ten years, I figured it didn't owe me anything after that run, so my Win11 box is all new.

You played it right. I kinda/sorta jumped the gun on Windows 10 but I already had all the boxes to begin with so not all is well with Haswell. I wish the X99 could do 24H2 but that isn't gonna happen. The only other desktop I built new for myself was the X570 Crosshair HERO which is supposed to be Windows 11 ready so I guess I did okay. Could have been worse.

Levitate11 · May 12, 2025

pseymour said:
It started with this nonsense about shifting letters to get to IBM and WNT. But then you say Microsoft "grabbed" Cutler from DEC. Well, they hired him. You're implying that they hired him to steal design from DEC. But what is Cutler supposed to do? Forget everything he knows about operating systems? If I make Fancy Web App, and it's a hit, and then MegaCorp hires me to make Fancy Phone App, should I just forget everything I know about software development? Not gonna happen.

HAL > IBM = VMS > WNT has been discussed by Dave Cutler. I believe Dave said "What took you so long?". But believe what you want, I don't really care.

I implied nothing of the sort about Cutler or MS stealing from DEC. Don't put words my mouth. I said they "grabbed" him. MS saw an opportunity to make him a technology/career offer that was well timed. By 1988/89 most everyone at DEC was well aware of the issues our industry position and senior management direction presented - Cutler would certainly have been included. But DEC wasn't happy to lose him.

pseymour said:
When did I say that?

Post #77. "It also didn't have the legacy UI stuff in it, and it separated user files, system files, and app files. That truly would be a new version of Windows, and I'm a little sad we haven't seen it yet."

That sounded like approval to me. Whatever.

pseymour · May 12, 2025

By saying you implied something, I very much did not put words in your mouth.

imply: strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).

And right, in my post, I did not say or acknowledge "that MS needs to isolate the files/functions such that they could head towards real security." Nice try though.

PhilB · May 12, 2025

pseymour said:
Microsoft's division in charge of Windows, the "More Personal Computing Division," brings in about 21% of their revenue, about 12% of their operating income. That division includes Xbox, Bing, Copilot, advertising, etc., not just Windows. And for the part of the income that does include Windows, it includes OEMs and Enterprises, where the bulk of that money comes from.

Only 21% of revenue?

pseymour said:
Since July of 2016, Microsoft has required OEMs to implement and enable TPM 2.0. You built your PC yourself and without TPM 2? That's neato, but you built it out of spec. Sorry.

Ok, but then why oh why didn't they do a real, full court press effort to educate DIY PC builders? Same for custom shops? Sure a custom shop could quote a lower price for non-conforming components that they still had in inventory, olr maybe pick up leftover new stock, but at least they should warn users.

pseymour said:
Anyone who thinks this is some big conspiracy between Microsoft and OEMs to do a cash grab from poor mom and pop home users probably thinks Bill Gates is still involved in writing code for Microsoft.

You're right. But where in or outside of Microsoft is the "consumer advocate," the equivalent of Sen. Elizabeth Warren (US Senator, for those outside of the USA), to advocate for "us." I'm sure the OEMs. Dell. HP, Lenovo, and major component builders, say ASUS and Gigabyte, get lots of love from Microsoft.

bikemanAMD · May 12, 2025

I tend to clean install whenever i redo my System or setup a new system in the Household

Less Problems

Cleaner Drive & Drivers

Sure a Clean install takes time, but sometimes its worth it, and honestly cloning the Family Windows 10 Desktop when replace that with Windows 11 Desktop, finally time to get rid of all the built up software crud, software errors, and such.

That system is an AMD A6 3620, with 8GB of Ram, 1TB Samsung 870 Evo Sata SSD (replaced the 1TB HDD that finally died in 2023), System was bought in June 2011. Heck some of the rear usb ports won't even recognize the wifi usb adapter anymore--the 2 usb 3.0 rear ports nada

Finally got the front port to recognize it, but still have to unplug device alot and replug back in to get it to work. Honestly i can't wait til have the funds saved up to replace that thing with a hopefully good system case with Filters, so won't have too much dust inside anymore like current system

My Main AMD machine i clean installed on Christmas 2024 when i got my newer Boot M.2 (Samsung 990 Evo Plus), been thinking maybe should've made the 990 Pro the boot drive, but i decided i'll just wait til i get a 2TB M.2 drive for the Game drive, then decide which M.2 slot i want that in

spapakons · May 13, 2025

A clean installation will take about one hour (optimistic scenario) on a typical office computer with a few GB data to backup and up to 10 applications to reinstall. No big deal. For a typical home computer with at least 2TB data to backup and tens of applications to reinstall it will take a couple of days if you have too much free time. If like most of us your free time is limited, it will take a couple of weeks. No thanks, I will do my best to avoid it.

Levitate11 · May 13, 2025

pseymour said:
By saying you implied something, I very much did not put words in your mouth.

imply: strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).

And right, in my post, I did not say or acknowledge "that MS needs to isolate the files/functions such that they could head towards real security." Nice try though.

Oh, I guess you just implied it.

See how that works?

gunrunnerjohn · May 13, 2025

spapakons said:
A clean installation will take about one hour (optimistic scenario) on a typical office computer with a few GB data to backup and up to 10 applications to reinstall. No big deal. For a typical home computer with at least 2TB data to backup and tens of applications to reinstall it will take a couple of days if you have too much free time. If like most of us your free time is limited, it will take a couple of weeks. No thanks, I will do my best to avoid it.

Well, the 2TB of data (you're pretty close on my system storage use), you should have that backed up anyway, so that's not going to take a lot of time. However, installing all the applications I use did take a number of hours, probably 8-10 hours total for the installations and the customization of the environment.

Levitate11 · May 13, 2025

gunrunnerjohn said:
Well, the 2TB of data (you're pretty close on my system storage use), you should have that backed up anyway, so that's not going to take a lot of time. However, installing all the applications I use did take a number of hours, probably 8-10 hours total for the installations and the customization of the environment.

Similar for me, but with less data to be copied.

I suppose that I could script my installations... or even just document all the installs and tweaks I do to get my setup to where it works for me, but I've yet to do it. So, a clean install is a bit of a long project. Then again, I hope to never have to do it, so there's that.

gunrunnerjohn · May 13, 2025

Levitate11 said:
Similar for me, but with less data to be copied.

I suppose that I could script my installations... or even just document all the installs and tweaks I do to get my setup to where it works for me, but I've yet to do it. So, a clean install is a bit of a long project. Then again, I hope to never have to do it, so there's that.

I looked at the scripts for installations, but it would take far longer to setup the scripts than to just install the apps. I think scripts are the key if you're doing a lot of similar installations on multiple machines. I see much less utility for scripts for a one-off machine build.

The big thing I like about a clean install is I get a clean slate. Over a few years, I end up with a lot of crap that was installed, used once of a few times, and then forgotten. I leave those behind when I do a clean install and end up with a much more lean and mean installation.

gunrunnerjohn · May 13, 2025

Levitate11 said:
Similar for me, but with less data to be copied.

I suppose that I could script my installations... or even just document all the installs and tweaks I do to get my setup to where it works for me, but I've yet to do it. So, a clean install is a bit of a long project. Then again, I hope to never have to do it, so there's that.

I looked at the scripts for installations, but it would take far longer to setup the scripts than to just install the apps. I think scripts are the key if you're doing a lot of similar installations on multiple machines. I see much less utility for scripts for a one-off machine build.

The big thing I like about a clean install is I get a clean slate. Over a few years, I end up with a lot of crap that was installed, used once of a few times, and then forgotten.

Bree · May 13, 2025

gunrunnerjohn said:
However, installing all the applications I use did take a number of hours, probably 8-10 hours total for the installations and the customization of the environment.

For most of my systems that have had a clean install that's about right. Maybe a few last finishing touches to the customisation over the next couple of weeks.

But not all my systems have had a clean install. I have some software of my System One that cannot be reinstalled. If I wish to keep it then 'serial upgrades' are my only option. Hence my System One's OS started life as OEM Windows 7 on an older PC, took all the W10 upgrades up to 2021, then was migrated to W11 compatible hardware to get the W11 upgrade.

gunrunnerjohn · May 13, 2025

Bree said:
For most of my systems that have had a clean install that's about right. Maybe a few last finishing touches to the customisation over the next couple of weeks.

But not all my systems have had a clean install. I have some software of my System One that cannot be reinstalled. If I wish to keep it then 'serial upgrades' are my only option. Hence my System One's OS started life as OEM Windows 7 on an older PC, took all the W10 upgrades up to 2021, then was migrated to W11 compatible hardware to get the W11 upgrade.

That progression would give me the Willies, hard to imagine there aren't some hidden gems waiting to bite you there.

kelper · May 13, 2025

I save the downloaded installation files (msi or exe files) on a separate drive. I could reinstall ten apps in twenty minutes easily.

kelper · May 13, 2025

A 'reinstall using Windows update' is painless, fairly quick and keeps all your files and apps. I commend it to you.

time to replace components in wife's computer for dreaded Win10 to Win11

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