Updating Drivers?

spapakons said:

Like I said customized hardware is rare

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That kind of depends what part of the computiverse you live in.

I take it you hesitate installing the stock drivers just in case they don't work and you need customized drivers from manufacturer. Well, this is the exception, not the rule. How many times have you tried to install the stock drivers? From these how many times you actually have seen a warning message that you should better install the manufacturer drivers? I install stock drivers every time and among the hundreds of computers I have seen this warning very few times. We are talking about Windows systems here, not Apple or whatever. And yes, an OEM like Dell or HP might have more chances to customize their hardware to get better performance, but this usually is reserved for the higher range models and it is not the rule.

Stock/MS/Windows drivers for AMD GPU do not install Adrenalin SW just some small stupid APP and are 2-3 generations late. Realtek sound drivers are just that, drivers without most control. Just some examples.

With some of the information (mis) going on here, all I can say is thank god some of you aren't building my PCs

BTW @CountMike's post above in on point.

TairikuOkami said:

The fan fact, windows update database contains the newest drives (with a delay), MS has to certify them (WHQL),

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Late responding to this, but this so very wrong. MS does no such thing. It is entirely up to the hardware manufacturer (or whoever wrote the driver) to pass WHQL,

Driver packages that pass Windows Hardware Lab Kit (HLK) testing can be digitally-signed by WHQL. If your driver package is digitally-signed by WHQL, it can be distributed through the Windows Update program or other Microsoft-supported distribution mechanisms.

Obtaining a WHQL release signature is part of the Windows Hardware Lab Kit (HLK). A WHQL release signature consists of a digitally-signed catalog file. The digital signature does not change the driver binary files or the INF file that you submit for testing.

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If it doesn't pass the HLK then it doesn't get the WHQL designation. If the driver passes the HLK then it is nothing more than a formality to it getting WHQL'ed.

Dru2 said:

With some of the information (mis) going on here, all I can say is thank god some of you aren't building my PCs

BTW @CountMike's post above in on point.

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No kidding. Most if not all manufacturer drivers are closed sourced. All any OEM (system builder, laptop, etc.) can do is take what the hardware manufacturer puts out and modifies the INF file(s) that come with the driver files. They in no way have access to the actual driver files themselves.

I ask again, how often anyone has seen this warning that he better install the manufacturer drivers? I don't see it too often. Also I was referring to official Intel/AMD/nVidia etc drivers, not to the absolute basic installed by Windows Update. Yes, the official AMD graphics drivers from AMD's download site does install all features including the Catalyst Control Center, that's why I recommend to download that first and then the manufacturer drivers, if needed.

spapakons said:

I take it you hesitate installing the stock drivers just in case they don't work and you need customized drivers from manufacturer.

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No, I don't. Rather, I often tend to test them both (in situations where both are available of course). But like I said, the symptoms that can potentially occur as a result of wrongly choosing to use generic drivers where customized drivers [that truly are customized as opposed to are just a differently packaged, older/outdated version of the generic drivers] should be used do not necessarily always seem like they can be easily associated with the actual device component [that these generic drivers are wrongly assumed to be designed for]. Partly as a result, these potential issues may become more difficult to identify and troubleshoot. The time and effort spent on testing might not usually be worth. However, there have been numerous occasions in the past when that hasn't stopped me from doing it anyway... “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man” ~ George Bernard Shaw

spapakons said:

Well, this is the exception, not the rule.

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I already know that, and I never claimed the opposite. Much to the contrary: Latest Intel Graphics Driver for Windows 11 The point was that it can still happen nevertheless, and when it does, a lot of time and effort might be wasted simply due to not knowing that it still can.

spapakons said:

How many times have you tried to install the stock drivers?

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Enough times for me to, after all the years, still keep having these horrible nightmares about it. lol

spapakons said:

From these how many times you actually have seen a warning message that you should better install the manufacturer drivers?

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Such a warning does not necessarily always appear when it probably should. Ever since I bought my current laptop (see my specs) a little over 3 years ago, the warning from Intel that I earlier mentioned has been popping up in the Intel Driver & Support Assistant every time for me except only once or twice.

spapakons said:

I install stock drivers every time and among the hundreds of computers I have seen this warning very few times.

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Again, it doesn't necessarily always pop up each time when it probably should.

spapakons said:

We are talking about Windows systems here, not Apple or whatever. And yes, an OEM like Dell or HP might have more chances to customize their hardware to get better performance, but this usually is reserved for the higher range models and it is not the rule.

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I still fail to see your point. My point was to just eliminate the lottery system as much as possible, and to at least consider, to some reasonable extent, to also reduce the potential risk of having to jump through burning hoops where it is possible to be reduced.

A potential issue due to using the stock drivers instead of the custom driver of manufacturer would be seen within the first days of use. After months it can perfectly be anything else, why it would be due to the driver? Most likely Windows Update would have replaced with the official working drivers. The first sign you have of trouble, which should be seen very soon, just uninstall the official driver and install the custom. I just have seen too many times that the manufacturer simply has older versions of the official driver on their website. Why bother installing nVidia version 510, for example, and not download version 540 directly from nVidia? If you don't want to risk, don't, but keep in mind you are using older drivers with high probability that Windows Update will try to replace and mess your system. On the other hand, having the latest official drivers render Windows Update obsolete you eliminate that chance.

allan said:

LOL - okay, do as you wish. It's your system after all.

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True but this does not detract from the fact your post is pure nonsense LOL.

So do things the hard way as you wish. It's your system after all.

Disable the function in BIOS "MSI Driver Utility Installer", for other OEMs may be called differently (for desktops).

"Enables or disables MSI Driver Utility support. If enabled, platform drivers will be automatically downloaded via Windows Update after the first installation of the operating system"

bobkn said:

My motto: if it ain't broke, mess with it until it breaks.

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Do you work for Microsoft?

If ain't broken mess with it until it breaks. That's exactly how many of us learned to repair computers. I tested anything new on my own computer and it was a matter of time until I saw a nice BSOD. But then I discovered the fix, so next time my friends and later my customers had the same issue I knew exactly what to do.

spapakons said:

A potential issue due to using the stock drivers instead of the custom driver of manufacturer would be seen within the first days of use.

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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It all really depends.

spapakons said:

After months it can perfectly be anything else, why it would be due to the driver?

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It can perfectly be anything else including something that was already present elsewhere within the system before you got to the point where you installed the driver. Just like it can perfectly be anything including something "non-else" that stays under the proverbial radar for weeks, months or who knows maybe even for years. Even if you didn't choose the wrong drivers, problems can still occur, and can also occur in such a way that symptoms go undetected for a relatively much longer period of use than what commonly is considered to be a common period, if you are a common user. Commonly.

Long-term servicing (LTS) is a concept that tries to take into account the fact that not all important problems (and problems the importance of which might be unknown or might not fully be known/understood) can be identified (and mitigated/resolved) within the first few days or weeks after an update occurs that either causes the problems or causes hidden, yet existing, other problems to be discovered/triggered (but possibly not yet be identified). There's typically always a certain level of unpredictability involved with erratic behavior patterns, and that can also be severe.

The main takeaway re "the first days versus months after" is that some symptoms can be so sporadic that they obfuscate real problems and risks. Even if it does turn out that an issue is seen within the first days of use, this still doesn't guarantee that the issue is somehow related to the drivers, and, the simple fact that issues can remain unseen for prolonged periods of use also doesn't guarantee that issues aren't real, which is important because issues can cause additional issues due to chain of events. The chance of there being issues might be small, but the consequence might not be small.

spapakons said:

Most likely Windows Update would have replaced with the official working drivers.

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Not really. On my laptop Windows Update just rolls back the graphics driver to an old version each time after I install the new one, either via the Intel Driver & Support Assistant or via downloading and installing the driver package from the Intel Download Center. Windows* Update Keeps Rolling Back Graphics Driver to a Previous...
After Windows Update rolls back the driver (which it does automatically, immediately after I choose to open Windows Update), I install the aforementioned downloaded package from the Download Center again, to undo that automatic rollback. So as a result, your suggestion doesn't make a difference.

spapakons said:

The first sign you have of trouble, which should be seen very soon, just uninstall the official driver and install the custom.

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The "official" driver is the customized one, unless the support engineers specifically stated otherwise or they made it clear that there isn't a customized one, which boils down to the same (or kind of).

spapakons said:

I just have seen too many times that the manufacturer simply has older versions of the official driver on their website.

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Scroll up. I already said that. Again, to verify that this is what the manufacturer has been doing for the specific product you have, you can inspect the contents of the two different driver packages in question, to compare the files therein, i.e. by doing a file compare after extracting the files. fc

spapakons said:

Why bother installing nVidia version 510, for example, and not download version 540 directly from nVidia? If you don't want to risk, don't, but keep in mind you are using older drivers with high probability that Windows Update will try to replace and mess your system. On the other hand, having the latest official drivers render Windows Update obsolete you eliminate that chance.

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I never said that choosing to use older drivers is always a good idea. Just like I also never said that choosing to use the latest drivers is always a good idea. There used to be a time (which started more than 17 years ago) when I had to switch back and forth between the customized driver from Asus and the generic one from Nvidia. This was because the VIVO (Video In Video Out) feature of my GeForce 7800 GTX TOP required the customized one whereas certain games required the generic one because it was newer.

There is no point keep arguing and confusing other posters further. I agree that to play safe you stick with the manufacturer driver (Asus in your case), but since these drivers have to be thoroughly tested by the manufacturer they usually are an older version of the device manufacturer driver (nVidia). If anyone is willing to take the "risk" and use the latest nVidia driver, is up to the computer user.

spapakons said:

There is no point keep arguing and confusing other posters further.

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Then why do you keep arguing and confusing other posters further?

spapakons said:

I agree that to play safe you stick with the manufacturer driver (Asus in your case),

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I never said that the intent of that is to play it safe. It can be, but certainly isn't always, as new generic drivers can still offer new fixes that older customized drivers lack. Whereas the older customized drivers can offer the kind of customizations that fix certain compatibility issues, which should be trivial if the new generic ones either are not supported or are supported only partially of course. The facts don't change depending on whether it is rare nor change depending on how rare it is if it's rare. They simply don't change, and that is regardless of what or who it is that you agree with. Full end of story.

spapakons said:

but since these drivers have to be thoroughly tested by the manufacturer they usually are an older version of the device manufacturer driver (nVidia). If anyone is willing to take the "risk" and use the latest nVidia driver, is up to the computer user.

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Again, scroll up... I already said all that. I haven't got a clue what you must be getting at here.

You must have the last word? So be it.

spapakons said:

You must have the last word? So be it.

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I don't, but... since you clearly insist... lol

This thread has completely lost the plot an bears no resemblance to original post.

No matter what diverse opinions are expressed, the one fact that is absolutely true is something like a billion people get their drivers updated by Windows update without any issues.

People who have a deep knowledge of drivers may beg to differ, but they POMPOUSLY claim Windows update is rubbish without offering any sound advice to the 1,000,000,000 users of which I bet 99% have little idea of what they should ALLEGEDLY do anyway.

Does it not occur to these guys that if Windows driver updates was so bad, the media would be tearing MS apart?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating LOL.

cereberus said:

This thread has completely lost the plot an bears no resemblance to original post.

No matter what diverse opinions are expressed, the one fact that is absolutely true is something like a billion people get their drivers updated by Windows update without any issues.

People who have a deep knowledge of drivers may beg to differ, but they POMPOUSLY claim Windows update is rubbish without offering any sound advice to the 1,000,000,000 users of which I bet 99% have little idea of what they should ALLEGEDLY do anyway.

Does it not occur to these guys that if Windows driver updates was so bad, the media would be tearing MS apart?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating LOL.

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I would never say that Windows Update installs crap drivers.

Old drivers, sometimes. That's mostly an issue for compulsive people. (Such as myself.)