Why Has No One Mentioned The Prospect Of Dumping Millions Of Incompatible Machines ?

CountMike · Aug 10, 2021

Lawnmower74 said:
I personally think this is the wrong time to announce a new system with new equipment needed to update our computers with the shortage of chips memory processors and graphic cards. This is causing price hikes beyond a lot of peoples pockets also the shortages of materials is going to take some time to get back to normal.

It's just in early development phase, affected PCs are already several years/generations old and W10 will be fully supported another 4+ years. Hope this crunch will be well over by then.

Haydon · Aug 10, 2021

I think that after 2025, many consumers will switch to other familiar platforms (Google beefing up Chromebooks to Androidbooks, in particular) which will reduce future PC recycling heaps, and grows Android and other recycling heaps. We will then have 'other' dumping threads :)

No worries, though, MS makes most of their $ in biz and consumers can piggy-back.

Wynona · Aug 10, 2021

Winuser said:
It was a reply to my post. It has nothing to do with testing Windows 11. It was about the people that think that because of the requirements of Windows 11 that we have to dump our old computers.

It was the way he said it, and the way he put it that made me a little "hot under the collar", Winuser. I and everyone else; all who grabbed Windows 11 were being put into a category that frankly, I don't see any of us in. It was insulting to me.

Dark Knight · Aug 10, 2021

barman58 said:
PC's are recyclable items so "dumped" can be the wrong description to what happens when your no longer want your hardware, at least here in the UK

unfortunately there are issues with the exploitation of children in some less developed countries (mainly northern Africa ) where the motherboards are recycled by burning in the open air to recover the precious metals used in technology. This method of extraction is cheap but produces a lot of unwanted noxious gasses and other byproducts. these can actually cause serious illness or worse.

Where I live I have often left obsolete hardware outside the front of my property ready to take to the recycling centre and had a knock on the door from someone wanting to take the item away for reuse. of course not everyone bothers to ask but the recycling is still achieved.

Where possible I try to repurpose old working hardware by donating to charitable agencies who help those who cannot afford technology.

I've even had a Amazon delivery driver ask if They could have a Desktop case I'd placed "behind the Bins" ready for collecti

The percentage of us that re-use or repurpose the pc's and laptops we own is very small in comparison to the gluttony of those that will just dump or destroy and dump their laptops and pc's so that it cannot be re-used and race out to replace what they have just destroyed just to have the latest and greatest.

I built my own rig about 6 years ago ,I built it with room for expansion in mind , although it has TPM 2.0 the CPU which was not top of the line but good for it's time is now all of a sudden not good enough to run 11, no sweat off my nose, Microsoft can kiss my d!ck, I am not going to run out and replace my CPU just so I can run 11. If my CPU's life cycle should end before Windows 10 support ends which I highly doubt and I NEED to replace it then maybe I will then, if not then when support for Windows 10 ends I will just move to Linux

Dark Knight · Aug 10, 2021

CountMike said:
It's just in early development phase, affected PCs are already several years/generations old and W10 will be fully supported another 4+ years. Hope this crunch will be well over by then.

I work in an industry that deals with these chips and a lot of them, we have been feeling the crunch now for just about a year and it is not forcasted to let up until at least 2024, and STILL they don't even know if we will be out of it by then ...... Yeah, I am gonna race out and but a new PC or CPU, wrong! consumers are already over paying for this stuff and it will get A LOT worse before it's over. Automobiles have already seen price increases by as much as 50% because of this shortage, just to give you an idea what the entertainment industry is headed for, A new $1,200 pc could potentially cost you closer to $2,000 very soon, maybe more because when it comes to technology , people are buffoons and pay whatever they have to to have it, and these big tech companies know it, hell even before the shortage we were all paying too much for these items to start with. Apple Products are the perfect example.

CountMike · Aug 11, 2021

Dark Knight said:
The percentage of us that re-use or repurpose the pc's and laptops we own is very small in comparison to the gluttony of those that will just dump or destroy and dump their laptops and pc's so that it cannot be re-used and race out to replace what they have just destroyed just to have the latest and greatest.

I built my own rig about 6 years ago ,I built it with room for expansion in mind , although it has TPM 2.0 the CPU which was not top of the line but good for it's time is now all of a sudden not good enough to run 11, no sweat off my nose, Microsoft can kiss my d!ck, I am not going to run out and replace my CPU just so I can run 11. If my CPU's life cycle should end before Windows 10 support ends which I highly doubt and I NEED to replace it then maybe I will then, if not then when support for Windows 10 ends I will just move to Linux

Only very rich from rich countries can afford to dump in garbage obsolete or what they perceive as "obsolete" PCs, laptops, tablets and phones. Of all devices, desktop PCs are most reusable as they can be upgraded and are robust enough to last for many years. If at all in working state there's always somebody that they can be "good enough" to use for something.
Largest problem are devices that can't be (easily) repaired and that's mostly manufacturer's fault.Tendency to make devices sealed without part (like battery for instance) changes option gives little to none option other to throw away or hopefully recycle.
Hence the "Right to repair" movement.

Explained: What is the ‘right to repair’ movement?

In recent years, countries around the world have been attempting to pass effective 'right to repair' laws. But it is no surprise that the movement has faced tremendous resistance from tech giants such as Apple and Microsoft over the years.

indianexpress.com

Right to repair movement gains power in US and Europe

Lawmakers and advocates want to give consumers more choice when it comes to fixing devices.

www.bbc.com

barman58 · Aug 11, 2021

My experience in the industry, [over forty years working in the UK IT sector], would suggest that, although a tiny proportion of enthusiast computer users, mostly, `either "too rich or too driven to have the latest and greatest setups" will dump IT equipment, the vast majority of the Enthusiast sector will continually recycle and rebuild their systems

As for other users, businesses', education, etc, will update only when the have to and probably later than this, and will these days be mandated to recycle and reuse.

he majority of private consumers will use their laptop until it falls apart or is "left at the coffee shop" and even then most will be recycled by giving them away to family (elderly or very young)

There is a major campaign at present by one of the major high street white goods stores offering Good money off for returning your old laptop when buying a new one.

We are no longer living in the throwaway society like the one I lived through in the 1960's and 70's we still have a way to go, but we are moving in the right direction

Stigg · Aug 11, 2021

barman58 said:
We are no longer living in the throwaway society like the one I lived through in the 1960's and 70's we still have a way to go, but we are moving in the right direction

Hi barman.

My observations of the '60s and '70s are the complete opposite to yours.
Stuff made back then was made to last for decades or more. In fact, I still have some of those things. I have only got rid of some things to modernise and replace with more electrically efficient products.

Back then, they made products unbreakable. But if it did happen to get a fault, it was repaired.

These days are the complete opposite. Nothing is made to last now. If it breaks, you throw it away.

SIW2 · Aug 11, 2021

Stigg said:
Hi barman.

My observations of the '60s and '70s are the complete opposite to yours.
Stuff made back then was made to last for decades or more. In fact, I still have some of those things. I have only got rid of some things to modernise and replace with more electrically efficient products.

Back then, they made products unbreakable. But if it did happen to get a fault, it was repaired.

These days are the complete opposite. Nothing is made to last now. If it breaks, you throw it away.

ditto. Sadly many people do exactly that.

Wynona · Aug 11, 2021

barman58 said:
My experience in the industry, [over forty years working in the UK IT sector], would suggest that, although a tiny proportion of enthusiast computer users, mostly, `either "too rich or too driven to have the latest and greatest setups" will dump IT equipment, the vast majority of the Enthusiast sector will continually recycle and rebuild their systems

As for other users, businesses', education, etc, will update only when the have to and probably later than this, and will these days be mandated to recycle and reuse.

he majority of private consumers will use their laptop until it falls apart or is "left at the coffee shop" and even then most will be recycled by giving them away to family (elderly or very young)

There is a major campaign at present by one of the major high street white goods stores offering Good money off for returning your old laptop when buying a new one.

We are no longer living in the throwaway society like the one I lived through in the 1960's and 70's we still have a way to go, but we are moving in the right direction

Well said, Nigel.

When the pandemic started, I had an older laptop I wasn't using because I'd bought a new one (a couple or three steps up). I handed it to one of my students so she could attend our Genealogy and Windows 10 classes on Skype. Just in the last few weeks, I told her it was hers; I knew I'd never use it again.

I don't think I'm alone in doing things like this; in fact, I know I'm not. In our LOTPW thread in TenForums, there are frequent mentions of this or that member updating and giving older technology to their family members or friends.

I've taken other old technology to the local charity resale stores; they take it working or not. It gives them something for their employees to work on, and then they can sell it. I've even bought a thing or two for myself.

unifex · Aug 11, 2021

Here in Germany it is forbidden by law (and punishable by hefty fines) to "dump" anything electronic into general garbage. Old electric and electronic devices (everything from cables and lightbulbs to fridges and washing machines) have to be recycled either at corresponding retailers (which by law have to take your old stuff) or at specially designated recycling stations.

BunnyJ · Aug 11, 2021

unifex said:
Here in Germany it is forbidden by law (and punshable by hefty fines) to "dump" anything electronic into general garbage. Old electric and electronic devices (everything from cables and lightbulbs to fridges and washing machines) have to be recycled either at corresponding retailers (which by law have to take your old stuff) or at specially designated recycling stations.

As it should in every country. Waste like that needs to be treated and recycled properly

unifex · Aug 11, 2021

CountMike said:
Only very rich from rich countries can afford to dump in garbage obsolete or what they perceive as "obsolete" PCs, laptops, tablets and phones. Of all devices, desktop PCs are most reusable as they can be upgraded and are robust enough to last for many years. If at all in working state there's always somebody that they can be "good enough" to use for something.
Largest problem are devices that can't be (easily) repaired and that's mostly manufacturer's fault.Tendency to make devices sealed without part (like battery for instance) changes option gives little to none option other to throw away or hopefully recycle.
Hence the "Right to repair" movement.

Explained: What is the ‘right to repair’ movement?

In recent years, countries around the world have been attempting to pass effective 'right to repair' laws. But it is no surprise that the movement has faced tremendous resistance from tech giants such as Apple and Microsoft over the years.

indianexpress.com

Right to repair movement gains power in US and Europe

Lawmakers and advocates want to give consumers more choice when it comes to fixing devices.

www.bbc.com

In most cases repair is simply cost prohibitive, at least here in Germany. Repair shops do exist and are doing something, but unless you keep a very old device and it holds some sentimental value, it usually makes no sense. Very often the cost of even simplest repairs constitutes a sizable fraction of the price of a new device, with the new device being more modern, having better features, coming with a warranty, and simply looking new and shiny. So unless you are forced to count every last penny, you are more likely to replace than repair.

barman58 · Aug 11, 2021

Most Charity resale outlets in the UK will not take electrical or electronic items as they have to be certified as electrically safe by a person with the right qualification and the certification process is too expensive for a lot of items to be sold for a reasonable profit for the charity.

Some will take them as they have a contact who will certify for free. I have been qualified to perform the certification in the past and have included the certificate with items i've donated

BunnyJ · Aug 11, 2021

barman58 said:
Most Charity resale outlets in the UK will not take electrical or electronic items as they have to be certified as electrically safe by a person with the right qualification and the certification process is too expensive for a lot of items to be sold for a reasonable profit for the charity.

Some will take them as they have a contact who will certify for free. I have been qualified to perform the certification in the past and have included the certificate with items i've donated

Interesting... It makes sense to make sure that an item is safe before accepting it.

johnlgalt · Aug 11, 2021

Dark Knight said:
The percentage of us that re-use or repurpose the pc's and laptops we own is very small in comparison to the gluttony of those that will just dump or destroy and dump their laptops and pc's so that it cannot be re-used and race out to replace what they have just destroyed just to have the latest and greatest.

I built my own rig about 6 years ago ,I built it with room for expansion in mind , although it has TPM 2.0 the CPU which was not top of the line but good for it's time is now all of a sudden not good enough to run 11, no sweat off my nose, Microsoft can kiss my d!ck, I am not going to run out and replace my CPU just so I can run 11. If my CPU's life cycle should end before Windows 10 support ends which I highly doubt and I NEED to replace it then maybe I will then, if not then when support for Windows 10 ends I will just move to Linux

Dark Knight said:
I work in an industry that deals with these chips and a lot of them, we have been feeling the crunch now for just about a year and it is not forcasted to let up until at least 2024, and STILL they don't even know if we will be out of it by then ...... Yeah, I am gonna race out and but a new PC or CPU, wrong! consumers are already over paying for this stuff and it will get A LOT worse before it's over. Automobiles have already seen price increases by as much as 50% because of this shortage, just to give you an idea what the entertainment industry is headed for, A new $1,200 pc could potentially cost you closer to $2,000 very soon, maybe more because when it comes to technology , people are buffoons and pay whatever they have to to have it, and these big tech companies know it, hell even before the shortage we were all paying too much for these items to start with. Apple Products are the perfect example.

I can't help but ask - why are you here then?

You've made your choice on what you want to do, and it does not involve running Windows 11 because of the hardware requirements that supersede your current rig.

What else is there to note here? I mean, seriously, this is an all ages site, and going off on them because your 6 year old is not set to be certified as hardware-compliant with a new OS that is not removing the old OS for over 4 more years is .. well, disconcerting, to say the least.

Winuser · Aug 11, 2021

Wynona said:
It was the way he said it, and the way he put it that made me a little "hot under the collar", Winuser. I and everyone else; all who grabbed Windows 11 were being put into a category that frankly, I don't see any of us in. It was insulting to me.

Speaking for myself, I didn't hesitate upgrading my computers to Windows 11 when MS did the official Insider release. I'm typing this on my main desktop running Windows 11. I enjoy testing the new builds and figure if any future builds cause me trouble, I have my images to restore back to a working build. I can go back to the Original OS before I setup my desktop or to the setup just before updating to the Windows 11 Insider build if I need to.

Wynona · Aug 11, 2021

Winuser said:
Speaking for myself, I didn't hesitate upgrading my computers to Windows 11 when MS did the official Insider release. I'm typing this on my main desktop running Windows 11. I enjoy testing the new builds and figure if any future builds cause me trouble, I have my images to restore back to a working build. I can go back to the Original OS before I setup my desktop or to the setup just before updating to the Windows 11 Insider build if I need to.

Exactly, Winuser. The reason I test and use new operating systems is because I will be ready to teach it to those students who want to use it. Not to mention that if I find it better than the current OS . . . I don't hesitate to go back if I find it necessary.