Solved Wireless to get


marne

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Which is better when ordering a desktop computer if it has for Wireless:
Qualcomm DW1810, 1x1, 802.11ac with WiFi, wireless LAN, Bluetooth 4.1
OR
Intel Wi-Fi 6 2x2 (Gig+) and Bluetooth

Thank you.
 

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The-Hive

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Personally I would go Intel as I have always used them but would advise you to read up specs etc on both and make a choice based on your needs and usage etc.
 

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badrobot

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Which is better when ordering a desktop computer if it has for Wireless:
Qualcomm DW1810, 1x1, 802.11ac with WiFi, wireless LAN, Bluetooth 4.1
OR
Intel Wi-Fi 6 2x2 (Gig+) and Bluetooth

Thank you.
I personally don't think it matters, hardware-wise. What you need to look at is your internet speed subscription and wireless router that affects the speed performance more than wireless adapters. These adapters rely only on the signal they get.
 

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barman58

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With the wireless market in flux technically I would normally prefer to add an additional USB-3 card to the desktop and use this to run WiFi and Bluetooth - the use of USB will mean that the systems can be upgraded as needed on the desktops that require them - Depending on the desktops (and Laptops), in use the extra expansion card may not be needed. The two wireless adaptors can be one of the dual system devices for laptops and desktops if you wish to save ports
 

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marne

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OK THANK you's.
I have 2 Dell desktops to pick from to order. Thinking Black Friday, I better hop onto it if that is what I should do now.
The one I want is the Dell Vostro 5890 which has the Qualcomm DW1810, 1x1, 802.11ac with WiFi, wireless LAN, Bluetooth 4.1.
The other is Inspiron Desktop which has the Intel Wi-Fi 6 2x2 (Gig+) and Bluetooth.

I know absolutely NOTHING about what to look for which is better than, to buy, but did read where Wi-Fi 6 2x2 is supposed to be fast, so that made me wonder? I also am having a hard time choosing between the two in that the specs seem to be a lot alike but read replies that Vostro is better?
Also, can a person get a coupon or code to apply when ordering, or not accepted on Dell that is marked down?
 

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Bree

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I know absolutely NOTHING about what to look for which is better than, to buy, but did read where Wi-Fi 6 2x2 is supposed to be fast, so that made me wonder?
2x2 means that it uses two wireless channels at the same time, meaning potentially twice the data transfer speed of a 1x1. Whether you will find that a benefit in practice depends of the download speed your ISP provides. With the fastest WiFi in the world you'll still be limited to the speed you ISP provides data to you.

You'd need to be getting more than 200Mbps from your ISP before you'd even notice any speed difference between an old 2.4GHz WiFi card and a 5Ghz one, let alone 2x2 vs 1x1. I get 50Mbps and any of my WiFi cards can more than match that, no matter how old.
 

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Almighty1

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Which is better when ordering a desktop computer if it has for Wireless:
Qualcomm DW1810, 1x1, 802.11ac with WiFi, wireless LAN, Bluetooth 4.1
OR
Intel Wi-Fi 6 2x2 (Gig+) and Bluetooth

Thank you.
Qualcomm DW1810 is 150Mbps or single street WiFi 5
Intel Wi-Fi 6 can be up to 2.4Gbps and Bluetooth v5.2
 

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    Dell XPS 15 9570
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    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
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    32GB using 2x16GB modules
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    Intel UHD 630 & NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti with 4GB DDR5
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hdmi

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The Intel WiFi 6 AX200 series (AX200 series = AX200/AX201/AX210) cards are reliable and very fast, my laptop uses an AX201 and a family member has a desktop PC that came with an AX200 inside. On my Asus RT-AX92U (2 Pack) in Access Point (AP) mode with the wired backhaul option and AI Mesh 2.0 set to enabled, I am inclined to think that what I have right now is "the Cadillac of WiFi 6".
 

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Almighty1

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The Intel WiFi 6 AX200 series (AX200 series = AX200/AX201/AX210) cards are reliable and very fast, my laptop uses an AX201 and a family member has a desktop PC that came with an AX200 inside. On my Asus RT-AX92U (2 Pack) in Access Point (AP) mode with the wired backhaul option and AI Mesh 2.0 set to enabled, I am inclined to think that what I have right now is "the Cadillac of WiFi 6".
AX210/AX211 are actually WiFi 6E and not the same family. AX201 is a CNVi version of the AX200 and does not have it's own processor but instead uses the CPU.
 

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    Dell XPS 15 9570
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    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
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    32GB using 2x16GB modules
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hdmi

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AX210/AX211 are actually WiFi 6E and not the same family. AX201 is a CNVi version of the AX200 and does not have it's own processor but instead uses the CPU.
What I actually meant was any of the Intel "AX" models where the 1st digit after the "AX" part is a "2", so yeah, the AX211 also meets this description. The question of whether to go for WiFi 6 or WiFi 6E is relevant only if the OP needs/wants to consider upgrading to WiFi 6E, which would part be dependent on price differences and availability I would guess, but the price of modern WiFi 6E routers and APs can be expected to further decline as time goes by, and newer WiFi 6E routers and APs with more interesting added features can also be expected to come out, so my reference to the AX210 was just a small hint in a sloppy attempt of mine to convey that message. As for the CNVio2 thing, I found a discussion thread on another forum that sheds some light on the subject of what's the difference: what's the diff between AX200 and.AX201?
 

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Almighty1

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What I actually meant was any of the Intel "AX" models where the 1st digit after the "AX" part is a "2", so yeah, the AX211 also meets this description. The question of whether to go for WiFi 6 or WiFi 6E is relevant only if the OP needs/wants to consider upgrading to WiFi 6E, which would part be dependent on price differences and availability I would guess, but the price of modern WiFi 6E routers and APs can be expected to further decline as time goes by, and newer WiFi 6E routers and APs with more interesting added features can also be expected to come out, so my reference to the AX210 was just a small hint in a sloppy attempt of mine to convey that message. As for the CNVio2 thing, I found a discussion thread on another forum that sheds some light on the subject of what's the difference: what's the diff between AX200 and.AX201?
It's similar to a modem in the old days. the 1 at the end usually means CNVI and uses the CPU for a lot of things while the one that ends in 0 is the one that does 100% of everything. The 6E models also includes Killer Networking technology as it was the first product made after Intel bought out Rivet. No one really has the specs on the AX211 or the AX310, AX410 with the later two only mentioned in the drivers.
 

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    Intel® Core™ i7-8750H 8th Gen Processor 2.2Ghz up to 4.1Ghz
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hdmi

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It's similar to a modem in the old days. the 1 at the end usually means CNVI and uses the CPU for a lot of things while the one that ends in 0 is the one that does 100% of everything. The 6E models also includes Killer Networking technology as it was the first product made after Intel bought out Rivet. No one really has the specs on the AX211 or the AX310, AX410 with the later two only mentioned in the drivers.
Nah. What you are referring to here is called a "software modem". The idea behind this was that a part of the modem's physical hardware could be replaced with a software component that, just like any other piece of software, took up a certain amount of RAM space in order for the CPU to be able to run it, thereby it would slow the performance of other software tasks, as RAM was scarce and the CPU needed to run this additional software that would otherwise have been implemented in the modem's hardware, so more workload had to go to the CPU that could have been avoided by spending more money to buy a better modem.

However, CNVio2 is fundamentally different from this. That's because the media-independent (MAC) sub-layer of the hardware stack is in the PCH (chipset), so only the media-dependent (PHY) sub-layer of this same hardware stack is on the WiFi card. It means that neither one of the hardware stack's sub-layers are replaced with software. I.e., if your PCH is CNVio2-compliant, it means that the MAC part of the WLAN's hardware stack is a part of your PCH. The fact that it's inside the PCH is what makes it both cheaper and a tad better-performing. CNVio and CNVio2 are two different implementations of the CNVi bus in a WLAN architecture, which is similar to the LCI bus in a LAN architecture.

The only real drawbacks here are that 1/ you won't be able to use a non CMVio2-compliant WiFi card in a CMVio2-compliant M.2 Type E socket nor will be able to use a CMVio2-compliant WiFi card in a non CMVio2-compliant M.2 Type E socket, and that 2/ you won't be able to use a CMVio2 card in a CMVio socket or vice-versa. It will still fit in there and not damage anything, but you won't be able to power up the motherboard or else you won't be able to use the WiFi card. If it's the latter case, then you may also experience additional problems that will all permanently go away as soon as you simply remove the card from the slot. So, yes, certainly there are drawbacks. But it's the Cadillac of WiFi 6. So I'm not too worried. :)
 

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Almighty1

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@hdmi - Your explanation is better than mines as it's kind of hard to find a good analogy. Maybe it's not as bad as a software modem or a winmodem but it's still not as good as one where it's independent of the CPU which is why it's better to go with external modems as those have a actual CPU and also ofcourse those were analog so those also benefitted from the 16550 UARTs which were not available with internal modems.

An former retired Intel employee explained a few weeks ago in their community forums:

when I asked the same thing and basically even wired ethernet had the PHY only that relied on the CPU or PHY with the hardware so it's independent of the CPU. The only thing is how does one know if they have a CNVI vs a non-CNVI system because I was told that CNVI is not very common. I haven't paid attention to things in-depth like I did prior to 2009 so when I mean old days, I am really talking about the old days when there were Telebit PEP Trailblazer, USR HST modems, Concord v32, Hayes v96. I guess the Intel Gigabit NICs that were part of the motherboards during the Pentium 4C were also directly connected to the chipset itself, that was the reason the 3Com NICs were not as fast because it didn't connect to the PCH directly.
 
Last edited:

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hdmi

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@hdmi - Your explanation is better than mines as it's kind of hard to find a good analogy. Maybe it's not as bad as a software modem or a winmodem but it's still not as good as one where it's independent of the CPU which is why it's better to go with external modems as those have a actual CPU and also ofcourse those were analog so those also benefitted from the 16550 UARTs which were not available with internal modems.

An former retired Intel employee explained a few weeks ago in their community forums:

when I asked the same thing and basically even wired ethernet had the PHY only that relied on the CPU or PHY with the hardware so it's independent of the CPU. The only thing is how does one know if they have a CNVI vs a non-CNVI system because I was told that CNVI is not very common. I haven't paid attention to things in-depth like I did prior to 2009 so when I mean old days, I am really talking about the old days when there were Telebit PEP Trailblazer, USR HST modems, Concord v32, Hayes v96. I guess the Intel Gigabit NICs that were part of the motherboards during the Pentium 4C were also directly connected to the chipset itself, that was the reason the 3Com NICs were not as fast because it didn't connect to the PCH directly.
Here's the corrected link that points to the post that you mention:

I think CNVi has grown to be rather common in modern laptops that have a 10th Gen or an 11th Gen Intel CPU such as my Core i5-1135G7, and I expect this trend will continue further in the 12th Gen ones. The main philosophy I think is that WiFi these days is omnipresent so it's being used all the time, there's always something going on as for the data streams that occur between the WLAN and chipset, so that shouldn't have to be treated the same as PCIe devices. I mean, the MAC is media-independent, so the interconnect doesn't need to be configured between the chipset and it in this regard, as the MAC is pretty much an invariable standard throughout the entire lifecycle of the SOC it needs to hook up to. Whereas PCIe is designed to be configurable. Therefore it makes logical sense to move the MAC's interconnect into the PCH in order to eliminate the PCIe overload that is responsible for slowing the PCIe down, contrary to making it faster. So, moving the MAC into the same package where it should belong was actually a smart move, because it adds performance, which means it's better─not worse.
 
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Almighty1

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Here's the corrected link that points to the post that you mention:

I think CNVi has grown to be rather common in modern laptops that have a 10th Gen or an 11th Gen Intel CPU such as my Core i5-1135G7, and I expect this trend will continue further in the 12th Gen ones. The main philosophy I think is that WiFi these days is omnipresent so it's being used all the time, there's always something going on as for the data streams that occur between the WLAN and chipset, so that shouldn't have to be treated the same as PCIe devices. I mean, the MAC is media-independent, so the interconnect doesn't need to be configured between the chipset and it in this regard, as the MAC is pretty much an invariable standard throughout the entire lifecycle of the SOC it needs to hook up to. Whereas PCIe is designed to be configurable. Thefore it makes logical sense to move the MAC's interconnect into the PCH in order to eliminate the PCIe overload that is responsible for slowing the PCIe down, contrary to making it faster. So, moving the MAC into the same package where it should belong was actually a smart move, because it adds performance, which means it's better─not worse.
I am curious, how long ago did these modern laptops came out that even had CNVi on it because if you look at even the Intel specs that were submitted to the FCC for example on the AX211, there is no mention of CNVi anywhere in what was submitted and they tested on a Dell Latitude E5470 which is 2018 and earlier. I mean even my Dell XPS 15 9570 using the Core i7 i8750H which came out in 2019 does not have CNVi which is newer than their test model. What I am saying is since these cards can only be bought online, how does one know if they have a CNVi system or not? When I search online, it seems to say the i8750H supports CNVi. It also seems there are some people who have AX200's in their Latitude E5470s without problems even though it's supposed to be a CNVi system.
 

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hdmi

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I am curious, how long ago did these modern laptops came out that even had CNVi on it because if you look at even the Intel specs that were submitted to the FCC for example on the AX211, there is no mention of CNVi anywhere in what was submitted and they tested on a Dell Latitude E5470 which is 2018 and earlier. I mean even my Dell XPS 15 9570 using the Core i7 i8750H which came out in 2019 does not have CNVi which is newer than their test model. What I am saying is since these cards can only be bought online, how does one know if they have a CNVi system or not? When I search online, it seems to say the i8750H supports CNVi. It also seems there are some people who have AX200's in their Latitude E5470s without problems even though it's supposed to be a CNVi system.
On desktops CNVio was introduced with the launch of Gemini Lake in Q4 2017, whereas on mobile AFAIK it was introduced with the launch of Coffee Lake mobile chipsets (QM370, HM370, CM246) in Q2 2018. As for CNVio2, it was introduced on desktop with Comet Lake and on mobile with Ice Lake, and the AX201.NGW (VPro) and AX201.NGW.NV (non vPro) cards came out in Q2 2019. I suspect that most systems that support CNVi are sold with the WiFi card already installed. So, if the differentiation isn't clear from the specs, then the system manufacturer is the one to blame. I.e., shoot @ Dell. :p
 

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On desktops CNVio was introduced with the launch of Gemini Lake in Q4 2017, whereas on mobile AFAIK it was introduced with the launch of Coffee Lake mobile chipsets (QM370, HM370, CM246) in Q2 2018. As for CNVio2, it was introduced on desktop with Comet Lake and on mobile with Ice Lake, and the AX201.NGW (VPro) and AX201.NGW.NV (non vPro) cards came out in Q2 2019. I suspect that most systems that support CNVi are sold with the WiFi card already installed. So, if the differentiation isn't clear from the specs, then the system manufacturer is the one to blame. I.e., shoot @ Dell. :p
Yes but as you know, Killer 1535 cards which does not have Killer or Rivet mentioned anywhere on the card itself would sync no surf multiple times a day and those are Wireless AC cards so people will replace it with a Intel which means either another AC card or one of the 6/6E cards like in my case which would fix that problem. How do you know if you actually have a VPro or non VPro card as both the AX201.NGW and AX201.NGW.NV cards only have AX201.NGW printed on the card, same case with the AX210NGW and AX210NGW.nv cards as the cards from CDW are sold as AX210NGW.nv but the labels on the cards says AX210NGW for example. There are some threads out there that says that a AX200 is guaranteed to work in any system whether it's CNVi or not while a AX201 will only work in a CNVi system, so not sure if the first one is correct from what you said ofcourse the AX200 already has the stuff on-board so it wouldn't depend on the bus for it.

But seems like #2 in post #1 in this thread seems to say the AX200 can work in some systems with CNVi:
 

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Yes but as you know, Killer 1535 cards which does not have Killer or Rivet mentioned anywhere on the card itself would sync no surf multiple times a day and those are Wireless AC cards so people will replace it with a Intel which means either another AC card or one of the 6/6E cards like in my case which would fix that problem. How do you know if you actually have a VPro or non VPro card as both the AX201.NGW and AX201.NGW.NV cards only have AX201.NGW printed on the card, same case with the AX210NGW and AX210NGW.nv cards as the cards from CDW are sold as AX210NGW.nv but the labels on the cards says AX210NGW for example. There are some threads out there that says that a AX200 is guaranteed to work in any system whether it's CNVi or not while a AX201 will only work in a CNVi system, so not sure if the first one is correct from what you said ofcourse the AX200 already has the stuff on-board so it wouldn't depend on the bus for it.

But seems like #2 in post #1 in this thread seems to say the AX200 can work in some systems with CNVi:
Medion.png
 

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What does the sticker on the physical card actually show for that specific card?

I meant the actual sticker(s) on the card as take a look at this listing which is supposed to be a AX201NGW.nv but if you look at the physical card itself, it will only show AX201NGW, so either there was no availability of the nv cards and they just furnished those that order nv with non nv cards.


Similar with the AX210NGW.nv, if you looked at the photos for this, the cards and even the shipping container of the big shipment still says AX210NGW on it as far as the model is concerned on the label.


Even Intel has not been able to answer the question as I have asked before since there is no images that shows a NGWG.nv anywhere as the model on the stickers only goes upto NGW so you can't tell if it's a NGW or a NGW.ng.

 
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@Almighty1
Yeah, they appear to be visually identical. The NGWG and NGWG.NV with a Lenovo sticker have a different FRU and TA number than the NGW and NGW.NV with a Lenovo sticker, though. But there doesn't seem to be an easy way to tell the difference between non vPro (.NV) and vPro. I suppose you'd have to check if vPro can be set to enabled on the card by using the Intel PROSet Wireless software and driver package, i.e., after the card has already been installed in a system that supports vPro. I don't need vPro on my laptop anyway. It's up to the OEMs to provide detailed specs to their customers. Maybe it's because mother Intel ran out of ink so they couldn't print the little vPro logo on the stickers.
 

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