BIOS Upgrade - and the stupidest move by MS ever

I just upgraded my BIOS to get the newest microcode fixes. Great I think, but it invalidated my sign on pin, so I had to reset.

MS says I can sign in with my account and password, so I do and then MS says that it will email me a code to my alternate email address. Great, I think to myself, except that Windows will not open or let me in to get the email on my email client. I had to go to another computer and log in on the web to get the code. Thank god I remembered the password. All is good now, but jeez, what a pain.

There must be an easier way to do this.

Catnip said:

There must be an easier way to do this.

Click to expand...

Use a regular old password.
Skip the Hello, the pin, the MA etc.


Problems with logging in when using a password on a local account = zero.
Since the Win XP days. ^^

One more reason that I don't have a Microsoft account linked to my Windows login! When I was changing stuff around in the BIOS to get Secure Boot working, I invalidated my PIN several times. I just logged in with my password and reset the PIN. Microsoft had nothing to do with any of this.

You don’t have email on your Phone?
Curious as to why?
If your alternative email is something like Gmail, you can set Gmail up to forward an email to an alternate address, or you can just add your Gmail account to your phone mail app.

Also, this is why Microsoft Authenticator is useful. I use it only for MS accounts and I wouldn’t use anything else for a MS Account.

and the stupidest move by MS ever​

Click to expand...

No offence really intended, but a bad carpenter always blames their tools.

I just got done about a week ago with not one but two Bios updates for my board, both times I had to reset my pin when I re started , not a big deal, it only takes a couple of minutes, geeze

Ghot said:

Use a regular old password.
Skip the Hello, the pin, the MA etc.


Problems with logging in when using a password on a local account = zero.
Since the Win XP days. ^^

Click to expand...

I always used a regular password for my local Windows account and still do, but some programs make you create a Windows Hello PIN, like iCloud Passwords. Other programs pick up on the existence of the PIN, like Microsoft Edge, and revert some settings when the PIN is invalidated, like booting a non-UEFI USB drive, e.g. for Memtest86+. I never would have created a Windows PIN except for Apple, which is kind of funny though mainly annoying. Recently, I thought it would be nice to use a fingerprint reader to authenticate in various programs, but it turns out that you can't prevent Windows from using it as a signon method, which is possible on Apple devices for their Touch and Face ID.

(In case anyone is wondering, I use KeePassXC on my PC and iCloud Passwords on my Apple devices. The PC is the primary password manager, and this makes interchange a lot easier. My Windows Hello PIN is a long random string that I keep in KeePassXC, so I don't use it for signon.)

In Windows 10, you could set up a local account and create a new password by answering a security question. Problem is others who knew user could guess the answer of the questions.

I used to enter the security answer in a code e.g. If my birth city was London, I would answer (say) Nodnol (London in reverse). Actually my code was more sophisticated than that but above is just an example.

Problem with Windows 11 is that you have to use tricks to use a local account rather than MS account but these bypass the oobe security questions.

Not only that, Windows 11 was more locked down and the old tricks to create a new password no longer work.

The simplest solution really is to set up pc with MS account and then setup a second account using a local password. That way, you can login with MS account and reset local account password.

This approach also means if the mobo dies, your activation remains connected to MS account, and you can reactivate in a new mobo...

Catnip said:

I just upgraded my BIOS to get the newest microcode fixes. Great I think, but it invalidated my sign on pin, so I had to reset.

MS says I can sign in with my account and password, so I do and then MS says that it will email me a code to my alternate email address. Great, I think to myself, except that Windows will not open or let me in to get the email on my email client. I had to go to another computer and log in on the web to get the code. Thank god I remembered the password. All is good now, but jeez, what a pain.

There must be an easier way to do this.

Click to expand...

Put the email on your phone, it's not an issue.
Everyone should have a secondary way to login anyway

Catnip said:

I just upgraded my BIOS to get the newest microcode fixes. Great I think, but it invalidated my sign on pin, so I had to reset.

MS says I can sign in with my account and password, so I do and then MS says that it will email me a code to my alternate email address. Great, I think to myself, except that Windows will not open or let me in to get the email on my email client. I had to go to another computer and log in on the web to get the code. Thank god I remembered the password. All is good now, but jeez, what a pain.

There must be an easier way to do this.

Click to expand...

the stupidest move by MS ever . . .​

Nope. Not nearly. If you think that was the stupidest move by MS you couldn't possibly have used MS very long.

Don't get me wrong. Unlike our local bullies, self-rights, and fan bois, I hear you BUT the reality is that you are a minority and likely part of a dying breed, a dinosaur if you will, and you are not alone, but you are destined to fall through the cracks if you don't comply. Expect no sympathy. It is what it is.

Myself, I'm a veritable contradiction. They can't even rightly call me a Luddite because I'm kinda/sorta tech savvy. I don't own a cell, smart phone, television, tablet, or even a pager. Recently I was required to use 2FA to verify a transaction. I use my land line. I use my email. I get two green check marks and a thumbs up. Suddenly a pop up appears stating that it sent me a code to my mobile phone. (I checked the "mobile" phone number that they claimed to send it to — it was my land line.) Did I apply for three factor authentication?? NOPE. Was my 2FA suffice to carry out my transaction? NOPE. My already approved 2FA wasn't good enough because I didn't use a cell.

Most of these security apps are designed by morons who assume that everyone who lives and breathes uses a cell or a smart phone because THEY DO. Back in my day this was called discrimination. Trust me when I say you'll get zero sympathy. Call it age discrimination, call it cultural discrimination, call it what you will, it won't matter anyway because you are part of dying minority. Only one more reason to keep that old PC, my friend. Only one more reason to have a PC that uses Linux. MS will only venture to feign actual service for as long as people have an alternative. That's how monopolies work.

Scannerman said:

I don't own a cell, smart phone, television, tablet, or even a pager.

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Well, I find it hard to believe an older person would not have even a basic mobile phone purely for personal safety reasons, especially if you drive a car.

My friend in mid 70s once fell in a field close to her flat on a cold winter day. She was able to call for help but had she not had a phone......

In UK, there is a more compelling reason to own one as the old analogue landline copper wire landlune infrastructure is gradually being turned off, and eventually all persons will have to use digital landlines.

The problem is with a power cut, landlines no longer work. So in a power cut, you cannot make emergency calls.

I had an analogue telecare service used by many older persons. When I changed to full fibre broadband, this no longer worked, and it has been replaced with a cellular based device i.e. it calls over 4G in same way mobile phones work for emergency calls.

You can buy basic 4g mobile phones on ebay for less than £10 and put in (say) a pay and go sim. In UK at least, you can call emergency services even if no SIM credit.

So the real question is not "Do I need a mobile phone?" but "Would a mobile phone help in an emergency?".

I am sure you have your own reasons for not having a mobile phone, and I doubt the above will persuade you but in the end it is your decision and risk.

cereberus said:

Well, I find it hard to believe an older person would not have even a basic mobile phone purely for personal safety reasons, especially if you drive a car.

My friend in mid 70s once fell in a field close to her flat on a cold winter day. She was able to call for help but had she not had a phone......

In UK, there is a more compelling reason to own one as the old analogue landline copper wire landlune infrastructure is gradually being turned off, and eventually all persons will have to use digital landlines.

The problem is with a power cut, landlines no longer work. So in a power cut, you cannot make emergency calls.

I had an analogue telecare service used by many older persons. When I changed to full fibre broadband, this no longer worked, and it has been replaced with a cellular based device i.e. it calls over 4G in same way mobile phones work for emergency calls.

You can buy basic 4g mobile phones on ebay for less than £10 and put in (say) a pay and go sim. In UK at least, you can call emergency services even if no SIM credit.

So the real question is not "Do I need a mobile phone?" but "Would a mobile phone help in an emergency?".

I am sure you have your own reasons for not having a mobile phone, and I doubt the above will persuade you but in the end it is your decision and risk.

Click to expand...

I completely understand your concern but I've weighed out the old security vs liberty argument. In fact, just last week I found myself in similar circumstances. I had a blow out on the Alaskan highway and with the hot August temperatures running well over 30°C on the asphalt it wasn't turning out to be much of a joy ride. Plus the spare tire was rust wielded onto the undercarriage of the SUV and I couldn't remove it. I found a gravel service road and limped my way to a farmer's yard. The lady there called a tow truck.

I'm never alone. There is always someone nearby in the event of an emergency. Men lived to be 100 before any cell phones existed. Perhaps the next generation won't be able to enjoy the liberty I do but that will also be their choice. I prefer to use it while I still have it. At least I'll be less likely to be the man who was found dead on a phone.

You could always decide to disable passwordless sign-in for your Microsoft Account, and also make sure to always remember your password. Granted, you will lose the "improved security" part if you keep this option always turned off, but then, you could also decide to turn it off before the BIOS upgrade and turn it back on after the upgrade succeeds. Only caveat, some system/motherboard manufacturers may choose to streamline the upgrade process such a way that there is no easy convenient way for the user to prevent the BIOS getting upgraded automatically, silently—without prompting the user for confirmation first.

That said, on my Asus laptop this confirmation prompt is isolated by the BIOS itself so it requires the user to interact physically with the laptop making it harder for attackers to bypass the prompt, and I have never seen it download/install any BIOS upgrades excepting only when I manually told it to do so. The same with all other updates, neither the MyASUS app nor Armoury Crate will touch my firmwares or drivers secretly behind my back. Asus is for those who dare. That's why it doesn't dare to betray me. So I'm not too worried.

I don't think I ever considered that a PC will automatically update a BIOS. I suppose I'm spoiled. My X99 Work Station is made by ASUS. MY X299 is made by ASUS. My HERO X570 is made by ASUS. My wife's main is SABERTOOTH TUF by ASUS. . . Maybe I take a lot for granted. I flash my BIOS manually when needed.

cereberus said:

The problem is with a power cut, landlines no longer work. So in a power cut, you cannot make emergency calls.

Click to expand...

ITYM 'digital landlines no longer work'. The old copper wires are fine, and were once a reason to hang on to the landline, even if hardly ever used.

Catnip said:

There must be an easier way to do this.

Click to expand...

If you are going to use 2FA, you need that second means of communicating...

cereberus said:

Well, I find it hard to believe an older person would not have even a basic mobile phone purely for personal safety reasons, especially if you drive a car.

My friend in mid 70s once fell in a field close to her flat on a cold winter day. She was able to call for help but had she not had a phone......

In UK, there is a more compelling reason to own one as the old analogue landline copper wire landlune infrastructure is gradually being turned off, and eventually all persons will have to use digital landlines.

The problem is with a power cut, landlines no longer work. So in a power cut, you cannot make emergency calls.

I had an analogue telecare service used by many older persons. When I changed to full fibre broadband, this no longer worked, and it has been replaced with a cellular based device i.e. it calls over 4G in same way mobile phones work for emergency calls.

You can buy basic 4g mobile phones on ebay for less than £10 and put in (say) a pay and go sim. In UK at least, you can call emergency services even if no SIM credit.

So the real question is not "Do I need a mobile phone?" but "Would a mobile phone help in an emergency?".

I am sure you have your own reasons for not having a mobile phone, and I doubt the above will persuade you but in the end it is your decision and risk.

Click to expand...

Landlines usually have totally different power supplies than from the "domestic grid". If you think that's B/S try and switch the entire poert to your home off --probably a main switch by the electric meter -- and then see if your landline still has a ringing tone.

Landlines can use optical (in fact increasingly do use) fibre networks - cable systems are still important around the world - especially for points of high impact e.g stock market systems, military emergencies, emergenct Air Traffic control etc etc. because these days a "nuke" exploded in outer space can generate an E.M.P which knocks out typical non hardened satellities such as Intelsat, Emmarsat etc which will knock out phones, satnavs and 100,000's of bit of daily infrastructure that rely on data transmitted to and from these satellites.

While Global nuclear war is still highly unlikely a "rogue" country like N.Korea or dissidents even in a country like that for example only needs to be able to send a missile into an orbit where it can detonate and release the damaging E.M.P.

Absolutely NOT science fiction and I'm sure the military of most countries are actively aware of this type of stuff in C21.

Cheers
jimbo

mngerhold said:

ITYM 'digital landlines no longer work'. The old copper wires are fine, and were once a reason to hang on to the landline, even if hardly ever used.

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One of the reasons I kept my copper for as long as they let me. Alas, the rural phone company out here, in no man's land, finally terminated the service. I'm forced to run broad band now so our friend's concerns are not entirely unfounded. I suppose that I could concede that I am not running a true landline anymore because I'm no longer on copper.

mngerhold said:

If you are going to use 2FA, you need that second means of communicating...

Click to expand...

That's a fact. In my case I could give them my email addy and they would send me a code. I would enter the code and get the "thumbs up" and they would proceed to ask me to verify by land line. I would enter in my phone number and sure enough I would get the telephone call and copy the code delivered to me by voice mail. I would enter that code and get a second "thumbs up" confirming 2FA and suddenly I would get a pop up stating that a code was sent to my mobile phone. This has happened more times than I care to remember and I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with my daughter getting a cell for college. The thing is I did not apply for 3FA. Nope. The P-poor excuse for AI simply decided that this should be the valid course for me. This resulted in me having to confirm with each of my financial institutions that I DO NOT verify via cell phone. It is only a matter of time before it happens again. I know.

jimbo45 said:

Landlines usually have totally different power supplies than from the "domestic grid". If you think that's B/S try and switch the entire poert to your home off --probably a main switch by the electric meter -- and then see if your landline still has a ringing tone.

Click to expand...

Yup. I've done this. Be careful if you try it because that copper carries a good wallop. (shhh.. I'm not telling how I know.)

jimbo45 said:

Landlines can use optical (in fact increasingly do use) fibre networks - cable systems are still important around the world - especially for points of high impact e.g stock market systems, military emergencies, emergenct Air Traffic control etc etc. because these days a "nuke" exploded in outer space can generate an E.M.P which knocks out typical non hardened satellities such as Intelsat, Emmarsat etc which will knock out phones, satnavs and 100,000's of bit of daily infrastructure that rely on data transmitted to and from these satellites.

Click to expand...

Another fact about fibre. I am sooo tempted to go with fibre too because this spoiled little oil town with a population of barely 2K people offers up to 10G fibre to your door at fairly reasonable prices. Of course I'd only go with 1G (which I'm getting right now) but I get such an awesome deal with my phone that I really don't have the incentive to switch from broad band/ethernet. For less than 20 bucks US per month I can call anyone, anywhere, any time in the entire continent without data caps. I have family in the USA and I have family in CANADA.

jimbo45 said:

While Global nuclear war is still highly unlikely a "rogue" country like N.Korea or dissidents even in a country like that for example only needs to be able to send a missile into an orbit where it can detonate and release the damaging E.M.P.

Absolutely NOT science fiction and I'm sure the military of most countries are actively aware of this type of stuff in C21.

Click to expand...

Who was it that coined the phrase "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're wrong" ? lol This really is true and one more reason grandmother wasn't wrong about not carrying all one's eggs in one basket. Options are a good thing until they are not. For me, a cell phone is a bad egg. For those who think burners are a good way to go they should do a little research and check what Edward Snowden had to say about them. Meh. I'll take my chances. We all gotta go some time anyway. :::sigh::: I sure do miss my copper.

cereberus said:

The problem is with a power cut, landlines no longer work. So in a power cut, you cannot make emergency calls.

Click to expand...

Depends on the type of "landline" you have. In my previous house we used to lose power regularly as we were semi-rural and there were lots of trees and elevated power lines. Any tree for several miles that fell would take down the power lines. However, we also had Verizon FiOS, and my Internet continued to function throughout almost every multi-day power outage. The Verizon CO has a battery bank and a generator to see them through major power outages. I have even seen the FiOS fiber pulled completely to the ground from the pole and it continued to function without missing a beat, needless to say the power was out.